I said “think twice”, I didn’t say “I wouldn’t do it”. I definitely* would *do it, if asked.
You know, the maybe 2 or 3 more times in my life I see a see a solitary wheel chair bound person heading towards a door without a push button. The only “commonplace” wheelchair users I see are* severely* disabled, and are usually accompanied by others. Maybe the public places I go to have too many ablist that annoy certain people into staying home all the time. There certainly are a lot of ramps, parking spaces, designated stalls, seating, and pushbutton doors anyway.
You should read my comment again wherein I plainly say that I can’t fault Ambivalid’s reaction given the invasion that took place. But there are also other more virtuous options. Why would you argue so strenuously against virtue? When did every hint at the possibility of self-improvement become an excuse to feel insulted about how totally perfect and holy you are right now? No my friend, you are a shitty mediocre person right now and so am I and Ambivalid and all humans. We could be better. How? By being better. It’s worth a shot.
Everything I’ve said so far applies to both “in a wheelchair” and “not in a wheelchair,” which interestingly enough seems to be part of what Ambivalid is asking for from the general public. Whereas I notice you keep demanding that the wheelchair be considered separately, which smacks of not only virtue-signaling but rushing in to “help” Ambivalid on this thread, which is ironically the precise thing that annoyed him enough to start it. These experiences with Helpy McHelpersons make him feel like he’s being treated as an inferior, whereas I’m saying, he can be the superior.
Anyway yes, I get it (as I said), and yes, for people all worried about their personal safety (“My precious, precious life!!!”), such an intrusion is a time to worry about your precious, precious life, and to feel just exactly as helpless as the person thinks you are. Whereas for Total Fucking Zen Master Warrior Badasses who’ve come to terms with death, who are complete at every hour, whose purpose in walking or wheeling around is higher than mere self-preservation, it’s yet another everyday opportunity for Fucking Glory, a chance to do a good deed, either by giving the idiot his illusion of doing a good deed (read my very first comment on this thread for context), or maybe by going through with his ill-thought-out plan so he can see for himself (e.g. “oops-a-daisy I seem to be blocking the door, this worked out poorly”) or by letting him have whatever he’s trying to steal, if indeed he’s trying to steal something. (In which case the consolation is that it’s better to be the one lucky enough to have something worth stealing than to be the one either desperate enough to be forced to steal, or miserable/angry/lazy/lame(pun intended) enough to feel entitled to steal.) Or if he’s not stealing, but helping, then a little lecture perhaps. In the presence of one’s own inner calm it might sound more like “You know you really shouldn’t sneak up on people like that, I might’ve shot you.” instead of “GET YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF!!” which is actionable, but too shocking to really sink in. Although maybe it did sink in later after processing the shock. I’m sure there was plenty of shock to go around on that occasion. We should all calm down. It’s not a rule, it’s just a good idea.
I think basing any suggestion on fictional people is kinda goofy. Maybe when the OP needs help writing some over the top fiction he can care about imaginary people.
Edit horizon expired but I’ll add: “…I might’ve shot you” needn’t be an idle threat either; people can defend themselves. But they’ll do a better job of that too, if they’re calm and confident inside.
Bwuh? Really? Because most people I see in wheelchairs *don’t *have an “assistant” - and clearly don’t need one. I assume the guy who seems to be a quad who rolls around the store where I work has someone to drive him to and from home (because he really seems to have very little ability to move, drives his chair with a joystick) but he tools around the store just fine on his own, I never see anyone with him.
I see elderly people with assistants all the time, but those folks are frail/demented and range from walking without assistance to canes to walkers to scooters to yes, chairs with wheels. But they are only a subset of the wheelchair users.
I have nothing against virtue, but I don’t hold people to impossible standards. None of us is a saint, none of us should have to go through life being obligated to “teach” others (why do we talk of “teachable moments” but never “learnable moments”? Don’t we have as much obligation to listen and learn as we do to “teach”?)
Yeah - but trying to do it 100% of the time is freakin’ exhausting. And unrealistic.
Sure, Ambivalid asked about better ways to approach but there no point to that if you can’t understand that “no means no” for everyone, no one is obligated to accept help they don’t want (much less help that is actually hindrance), and “helping” in a manner that will almost surely alarm someone is very much a hindrance.
If Ambivalid thinks I’m putting words in his mouth, or using him to “virtue signal”, I have zero doubts he’d call to task on it publicly. I don’t know where you get this idea I’m singling him out for special treatment or asking that his wheelchair be considered “separately”, other than your own mis-reading of my posts.
Why should he be obligated to be superior? Why can’t he just be normal, like the rest of us?
Besides which - it’s no good being superior if the people around you still treat you as inferior. Which is what he seems to be objecting to: being treated as inferior.
WTF are you talking about?
Yes, frackin’ right my life is precious to me. So is my personal safety and bodily integrity. Being concerned about your personal safety is NOT being helpless, it’s being prudent. WTF are you going on about?
Again, WTF? There is nothing “mere” about self-preservation, it’s pretty high up on the goal list for most people, maybe a step below “preserve my offspring”.
I don’t let people just steal my shit, either. Some years ago I recounted about how a would-be truck thief in my driveway got shot with a crossbow. Which meant this household got to keep the truck (I still have it) and the thief rapidly departed the premises. Also, a couple years back an effed up asshat from the bar next door tried to force his way into our home. Don’t regret my spouse giving him a faceful of garden shovel (took two to discourage him). There’s no virtue in being a victim if that situation can be avoided.
If you’re the sort who leaves your door unlocked and somehow thinks letting people take your shit, mug you, or otherwise harm you is a “virtue” then we’re going to have to agree to disagree because I don’t put up with that shit. Not that I have to get physical - I dragged a former employer who owned my back wages and told me to take a hike into court and would up with seven times what I was originally owed.
I don’t believe in that “turn the other cheek” crap, I believe in righting wrongs where possible and/or getting even.
The sort of people who steal from the “lame”, in my experience, are largely incapable of that sort of introspection. Life is not a Hallmark movie or an episode of Kung Fu.
It’s amusing how some people like to think they wouldn’t react in a shocked momentarily frightened way when they are met with a menacing looking stranger suddenly face to face with them inside their cars, with their hands on precious personal belongings before any words are spoken. I’m completely sure those who are chiding me for my reaction would have said something like, “Sir, I appreciate your immense kindness, but you know maybe it would be helpful in future instances of kind beneficence to more fully announce your presence prior to engaging in said helpfulness?” in the immediate face of such shock and surprise. Right. Virtuous options indeed.
This is what I was trying to say. As I keep repeating, yes, the guy was an arse and should have taken “no” for “no”. Consent: it’s an active discussion.
But the OP did specifically ask how he should feel about this scenario. The goal is to be strong and confident enough to rise above, and deal graciously with discourtesy. He made a great start by being clear and taking an educative tone. So far so good, you’re above average already. The next step is to apply a little cold courtesy.
And as you keep repeating, this stuff happens all the d*** time. It’ll wear you to a nub if you let it. Quite right. So are you going to let it hone your manners or corrode your spirit? It really is your choice.
Focus on the positive intent, and forgive the ignorance. In the end, it’s only you suffering the longer you hold on to your current perspective.
All the OP is saying is that people should not deny disabled people the respect of listening to their wishes. They should not assume they need help even in the face of “No I don’t need help.”
This means opening the door is okay. Opening the door when they ask you not to do so, not okay. Believe it or not the same rules apply to folks who aren’t in wheelchairs.
If this simple plea is enough to cause you think twice before opening the door for a person wheelchair, it makes me think you’re trying really hard to not get where the OP is coming from.
I’m not so sure, after reading much of the thread, that this was the real intent.
Stating at the outset that I have no problem with OP’s attitude or behavior in either of the two scenarios that I read about in this thread. I don’t have any problem with the content of this thread either. But it doesn’t really seem to be asking for anything other than pats on the back for the OP and those who agree with him, and middle fingers to those who don’t get it. The title seems designed to draw in posters who think their opinions are wanted, when that is not the case for those who have alternative approaches and end up getting told they are insensitive jerks.
A more straightforward title might have been something like “This guy ignored my wishes because I’m in a wheelchair.” It probably wouldn’t have gotten as much action as this one did, but there would have been less unwanted advice.
My “current perspective” is that of not believing i must accept misguided empathy or cold indifference. I simply want to have my words respected for what they are. My perspective is not the source of my “suffering”. It is the consistent mistreatment. I’m sorry I’ve failed to communicate this effectively to you. It’s difficult if not impossible to “rise above” and be “the bigger person” when you consistently deal with treatment that makes you aware that much of the world sees you as a second class citizen.
In terms of who i am and how i live my life, i am happy and even a little proud of how i conduct myself in the world and with other people. I have never internalized the ever-present bombardment that the world rains down on wheelchair users/disabled people that tells them how they should act/feel/behave. Trust me, its a constant struggle that each and every wheelchair user has experienced and some, many do internalize. And i cannot fault them for it one bit. Its how they have chosen to best live their lives.
The strength and confidence comes in knowing who you are and what is right and what is wrong, even if most everyone else is telling you you are wrong. Which is why i will never accept this sort of misplaced empathy, even if I rarely speak up about it. I like the idea floated early in the thread about a series of nationally run PSAs. This would be a somewhat effective means, imo at least, of fighting the ignorance that has such a strong hold on people.
Make no mistake, I have a good life. I am happy, healthy, I have a beautiful fiance, I have a great home, wonderful pets, two dependable cars and a loving family. I have much to be thankful for and much that many, many people sadly do not have. I am not bitter, angry or stuck in the past. I love myself and wouldn’t trade places with anyone in the world. And I mean that. All that said, I suffer from injustices that many people have no conception of, and I understand why they don’t. They have no reason, they’ve never seen, experienced or had any opportunity to be aware of such realities. And that is why I am adamant that what is needed is a big, drastic increase in knowledge. And knowledge comes by experience. My tiny role currently makes relatively little to no impact, I am aware of this. But as long as it has the chance to have an impact, that is always better than silent acceptance.
I agree with people in this thread who’ve said they have had barely any, if any at all, interactions with wheelchair users in the world. I have reasons why I suspect this to be true. One, of course, there are relatively few of us in the world. And as medical science and technology advance, hopefully we will be an ever shrinking population. However, I also believe many handicapped people stay relatively shut-in because getting out into the world is so traumatic, difficult and simply not worth it to them. In part, this is because of the “misguided empathy” that the world treats us with. I am pretty high on the independence scale in re to being disabled, so this mistreatment is generally not too physically harmful or potentially risking serious harm. But there are many others who are not so lucky, and such well-intentioned but ignorant help can actually pose significant danger to the more-seriously disabled wheelchair user.
So it’s kind of a catch-22. The world has this misconception of us, which results in this “misguided empathy”, in big part because of a lack of interaction with us. There is a lack of interaction with us, in big part, because many of the disabled people don’t want to expose themselves to this “misguided empathy”, as well as lack of accessibility, so they stay shut-in. So it becomes a vicious cycle. A cycle that is in desperate need of being broken. I am determined to find a way to play my part, however insignificant, in the quest to break this cycle. Perhaps I will become immersed in the psa possibility, it does excite me.
I gave him more of the benefit of the doubt than he deserved, most likely, just coming up with a narrative that fit.
Only other narrative that I can think of, is that as he was getting into his car, he realized he forgot his phone, and in order to get it, he had to pass through the same door that you did, leaving him in a position of either being far enough ahead that he would slam it in your face if he didn’t hold it, or staying behind and waiting on you to open the door.
One of the things that I pointed out in a a thread about racial issues is that we tend to overestimate the emotional state of people who are unfamiliar to us. So, to a white person, a black person who is annoyed may seem angry, and a black person who is angry may seem hostile. A similar perceptive shift/blind spot may very well exist when it comes to the disabled as well, casein the emotional state to be misread.
I absolutely do not fault you or second guess you. What you did may not be what I would do, but I would be tempted to run his foot over as his object lesson rather than mere words.
My bone in this is what happened before the door, why it happened, and how to prevent it from happening again. Whether that means some changes on your part, I don’t know. But if it is changes on society’s part that is necessary, digging deep into the why’s of this is useful.
This also relates to the general inability of people to listen to other people, especially if they
I’m a minority there. I find the “Are you sure?” to be quite annoying, as if I am always being second guessed on every single thing I ever do. It doesn’t piss me off, anymore, I’ve gotten used to it, but I really wish people would stop doing it.
Just saying, we don’t have Door Man’s side, and, as everyone is the hero of their own narrative, I would be curious as to what exactly was going through his mind. What reason did he have for ignoring the instruction?
And that should be the case for everyone in all cases. Ambivalid’s situation makes such acts both more common and more personal, but they are not unique.
Difference of degree, sure, but I agree, not of kind in that people are ignoring and overriding your expressed desires.
That’s what we are here to find out.
I get this, but there do seem to be many out there that don’t. Although the “burden” part is a a bit of a wash, if I think that helping me is more of a burden on you than it really is, then I may refuse, with only you knowing that your assistance is not much of a burden.
He heard, he obviously did not understand.
Because people are irrational. I linked to that article about the woman who, after being chastised for shooting at shoplifters at home depot, swore to never help anyone ever again. Does that make any sense? Not really.
There is a chance that he will answer you politely and calmly and rationally, and understand the error of his ways, but I think it more likely that he becomes defensive and shitty about it.
Where do you live? I doubt I see one a month. I couldn’t tell you if they had any sort of companion.
Other way around, as the Inuit is the one who is whole, and you are the one who is disabled in his environment. It would the Inuit offering you help with your igloo that he sees as collapsing and not able to protect you from the elements that would be more analogous here.
But yeah, we do have difficulties in understanding and communication with people who are different.
If you had shot the guy when he got in your car, that would have been reasonable.
The only thing that I would say about that situation is to be careful about your own safety. It sounds like you upset this guy, and he may have caused you physical harm in response (he certainly threatened to). Not justified in the slightest, but an unjustified beating hurts just as much as a justified one.
I do like the PSA route. And, though this is your topic and your thread, I don’t know that it just being about those with disabilities would be as effective. As monstro pointed out, she has issues with people who won’t take no for an answer as well, we all do. I suggested some coping mechanisms that I have found to be effective in my interactions, but getting it out there into he public consciousness that sometimes people actually answer questions with the understanding of what they are doing would be nice.
Now, while it would not focus solely on the effects of misguided empathy upon the victims of that empathy, and instead be more of a “No means no, seriously.” in general, I think that your story, as written, would be an excellent scene to get the point across.
Good luck getting a budget and air time. As a more affordable alternative, consider getting together with some friends and recording your own PSA to upload to YouTube. Could be just a chat where you express your frustrations, like this, or it could be more elaborate dramatic reenactments of scenarios that have irritated you and other wheelchair users (e.g. the guy who insisted on holding the door for you despite your objections, and the guy who surprised you unbidden inside your car).