IMO, it’s much more harmful to a child to grow up in a household where they’re never expected to do chores than one where they’re spanked occasionally. Yet nobody is suggesting that spoiling kids should be illegal.
There is nothing wrong with a swat or two on the behind, delivered mostly for sound (accomplished with a cupped hand). Abuse comes with fists, foreign objects, or more than 3 swats, IMAO.
I had a natural progression that started with spanking. In order of progressing age, we went spanking (up to 5 y. o.), timeouts (4-6), 10-20 pushups (6-10 yo), and finally groundings with added confiscations (Gameboy, computer power cords, etc).
The pushups came about because the rugrat and I were taking Tae Kwon Do together, and we dealt with those in class as punishments.
A friend uses this method: The child gets a dollar for each year of their age. They get more money up to their age again if they don’t misbehave. This money gets taken away for misbehaving, totally at the parent’s disgression. They can also get another dollar up to age for doing good things beyond what is expected.
To sum it up: You are five. You get $5 a week. If you don’t mess up, you get up to another $5 or $10. If you do more than expected, you get up to $15.
Her children learned early that doing it right meant more money, and that the world runs on money (and it does).
I think parents who never spank are missing one of their most powerful tools: the threat of a spanking.
As a kid, there was nothing I took more seriously than: “When your father gets home…”
All I can do is report my own solution. When our older son, born in 1967 was about 2, we discovered that we were spanking him every day, or so it seemed. My wife and I talked about this and finally decided to avoid spanking since it did no good. So we sent him to his room instead. His behavior immediately and dramatically improved! Later, I would count to ten to send him (and his older sister) to their rooms, not having any idea what I would do if hit ten. Neither did they but they took my counting as a sign that I was serious (this I discovered when they were older and asked them). My younger son was never spanked. Now that they are fathers themselves, they have never spanked any of their children. My older son has four kids, aged 6-13 and they do go to their rooms when sent. And I honestly don’t know what my son would do if they refused. But they go.
It worked for me; I cannot guarantee it would work for everybody.
I’m against spanking, I was spanked myself (more than the “couple of quick swats”) and it was awful, but I am against making it illegal. I wish all parents would be urged not to spank, but the reasons I’m against making it illegal are:
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There are already laws against child abuse, and if the child is being abused then Social Services should look into it and deal with it as needed. If there is actual abuse then it should be prosecuted.
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Would the “quick swat to get the child out of danger” be illegal as well? This seems going too far.
For the record I am also against helmet laws and various other well-meaning but intrusive legislation.
I strongly agree with this. I also strongly believe that kids shouldn’t be introduced to work as though it’s some sort of game. Obviously, they shouldn’t be told it’s the most horrible thing in the world, either, comparable only to being on the rack. However, kids don’t need to be entertained all the time. They don’t need to be happy and singing all the time. It’s important that kids understand that there are certain things you do - picking up toys, cleaning up crayon marks that they’ve left in inappropriate places, etc. - before the fun can start. That’s work and everyone in the family needs to do it.
It’s also important that kids understand that they’re not always going to be happy. They won’t always live in a Walt Disney world. I’m not advocating that they should be taught early on that life is misery, just that it’s okay if they’re sad or mad or frustrated. Those feelings aren’t abnormal and when they’re dealt with appropriately, won’t bring the child to the point where they’re overwhelming and scary. And early on, parents need to help them learn to recognize and manage those feelings.
Also, I think it’s wrong to tell kids that they’re more special than any other. Yes, they need to know that they’re more special to their parents than other kids, but they shouldn’t be taught from birth that they’re inherently better than everyone else. That’s something I see a lot today and I think it’s really misleading and can set a kid up for bad behavior later. It can also result in a sense of entitlement larger than Texas.
With respect to spanking, I think a swat on the butt works well for some kids, if only to get their attention, and I deeply resent the idea of legislation telling me how to raise mine. But the same discipline techniques won’t work for every kid. For example, my son responds better to directly-related consequences and re-direction rather than an emphatic “No!” while my friends’ child responds better to “no.” That may change later on, but for now, I’ve found that the best way to teach him not to throw food is to take it away as soon as any throwing starts or to speak softly when he starts screaming. Or to simply remove a toy when he gets so frustrated with it he shows signs of an impending tantrum. I try to give him a concise explanation (“You’re tired and frustrated. We’ll put this toy away for now.”) then we do something else he likes and that isn’t as challenging and he calms down. I’ve never hit him, so I wouldn’t know how he responds to that and I don’t plan to find out, but the thought of someone else telling me I could go to jail for a swat to the rear is ludicrous.
That describes my 3-year-old perfectly. Time-outs that start with some minor but negative behavior I want to nip in the bud turn into hysterical crying, running away, screaming, kicking, etc. It’s not worth it, and I don’t think it’s effective for her. Consequences do seem to work better, most of the time, although the problem with that is that I have trouble following through sometimes, which is a function of my personality, and something I’m trying to overcome.
Some consequences are easy, but they are more about learning from experience than punishing. Funny that WhyNot used the example of not wanting to wear a coat…Peanut pitched a fit about her coat yesterday. It must have been about 20 degrees outside. So, I let her get in the car without it. It didn’t take 30 seconds before she was complaining about being cold, and quite happily let me put her coat on her!
I also agree with overlyverbose that the “swat” on a jeans-covered bottom seems to be pretty effective in getting her attention, but doesn’t actually hurt her.
ETA: Funny story about one time out that she took meekly, though. This weekend, the fall decorations were being put away, and she got hold of a ceramic pumpkin and dropped it on the wood floor. Before we could get to her to find out what happened, she was down the hall, up the stairs, and in her room! I got her, made her watch me clean up the broken pumpkin and throw it away, and gave a lecture about touching things she’s not supposed to. I told her to sit on the stairs and think about what she did. She said “ok” in this little voice, and went and sat on the stairs. I have NEVER seen her do anything like that before. I actually felt kind of bad for her at that point, because she obviously felt really bad about it. Poor kid. 
Unless you beat enough to raise wales; that’s “waling”.
or would that be welts from the belt?
I remember my friend would count at their children.
One.
Two.
Three…
It never seemed to have any effect, so I’m not sure what they were shooting for. I figure you gotta actually have done something at the end of three, just once, for the counting thing to be useful.
:eek: Oh no mommy, please don’t count some more!
My kids ( 8 and 9) STILL leave without a coat and I STILL let them be cold (flat learning curve sometimes) - but things do change. I have to provide a coat at school - I can’t let them be at school coatless and say “tough it out kid” or I get nasty notes from the school administration, who holds me responsible if my kids don’t show up with coat, hats, boots and mittens to go outside in a Minnesota winter.
My mother did spank me on rare occasions, but she was evil. She didn’t send me to my room, where I could flop on the bed with a book and be far, far away. Oh no. If I had done something that required punishment, I had to sit in the living room with her and work on a latch hook rug we were making for her father. A 12 foot by 8 foot latch hook rug. That damn thing took years to make. My grandmother gave it back to me a few years ago and I was so tempted to burn the damned thing…
My sister in law’s response to misbehavior in her son was to send him to his room. With his cell phone, and his computer and DVD player and game consoles and TV and…you get the picture. Send me to my room!
I don’t believe spanking should be made illegal. I think it will take already scarce resources away from truly abused children.
What’s worse is the “One… two… two and a half… two and three quarters… two and four fifths…” people. We heard one in the grocery store a few weeks ago and turned to each other and chanted in a whisper “three! three! three!”
Our garage is not attached, and I was a little afraid my neighbors would see her going out to the car, and wonder why I didn’t put a coat on her! Sometimes, people either don’t know what kids can be like, or they forget!
Wow, counting like that seems like a huge opportunity to cop out of discipline to me. Did they ever reach three?
I think kids should be given a chance to correct their behavior when it’s practicable (i.e., not something they do constantly to push your buttons and/or not a safety issue); however, that’s ridiculous.
If the kids do something bad, make them watch Se7en. My older sister did this to me. I didn’t do anything bad either she just thought it’d be funny. Mom was mad.
I do the counting, and usually when I get to three I just haul the kid up and make her do whatever it is she’s refusing to do. She can choose to do it or Mom can do it for her, and she won’t enjoy the second option. I rarely get to three, and now all I have to do is poke up a finger, and then another finger…
My mom used to send my sister to her room, but that was no punishment, so she started sending her to the bathroom, which is boring.
My dad did the same thing! He would send me to the bathroom with no book. Pure torture for a little bookworm like me. (My mom would spank us. My dad never would. I behaved better for my dad, because I was a daddy’s girl and hated to disappoint him.)
I should have clarified - I don’t think the counting thing is silly. It just seems like you’re drawing out the inevitable when you start going by fractions. I try the counting thing sometimes, too, but my son is still young enough that it’s pretty much lost on him. He just looks at me blankly like, “what the hell does the word three have to do with anything?” 