If it depicts a real child or anything that is indistinguishable from a real child involved in any of the acts that legally define child pornography, it’s a no-no.
If it’s a cartoon, painting, story, sculpture, or other depiction that is not indistinguishable from a real child, it’s allowed under the law.
Mind you, my own personal line would be a lot more stringent than that, and would involve anything that depicts human children involved in sexual relations, especially with adults. Even if they’re cartoons or otherwise obviously not real. I personally don’t want to look at that sort of thing, and wouldn’t think well of anybody who did.
Cartoon ponies, though? Knock yourself out, if that’s what you’re into. Depending on how you depict it, I might look at you funny or I might not.
I’m gonna have to ask for a cite for this. People who seek taboo media are LESS likely to carry those acts out? Smells like pastel colored pony poo. What about that book that was yanked off Amazon, the one that taught the reader how to groom children to make them easier to molest? You really think the people who read that are just curious and not actually intending to put the information into practice?
Every sexual thought it permissible, and there’s nothing at all bad about it. Thoughts are not actions. Thoughts can’t hurt people. If someone isn’t hurt by a thing, then the thing isn’t bad.
If producing it involved actual children, then yes, that’s bad, and any adult involved, in either the creation or the consumption of it, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
But a guy who reads a purely fictional story involving sex with a minor? There’s nothing immoral about that. And if reading stories like that can act as a “release valve” that prevents the person reading it from acting on his desires in real life, then the creation of that story is a positive thing.
Honestly, I don’t have a cite, I believe its something like releasing a valve when its about to burst. Its less dangerous to release it slowly, in small increments, than to try to stop it and have it all blow up at once. Maybe someone can cite a study, I don’t have one.
As for the book, that’s like teaching someone how to do something illegal, its different. People are not buying the book to jack off to it, they are buying it to groom children. But I have no moral problems with a fully drawn book of children for adults to jack off to provided its not drawn pictures of real children. I think that provides a release
So interesting perspective from my son… a self-confessed Brony in his early 20’s. From a conversation we had while he was putting the dishes away, apparently Cloppers and clop-fic is not well regarded in the Brony universe in that it reinforces a stereotype that Bronies are pedos and quote (with a healthy dose of sarcasm), “adult males do nothing and enjoy nothing unless it is about sex, is sexualized or leads to sex.”
So I guess, should you be embarassed? I guess that matters in terms of your own comfort, but even within your own community, you are not well regarded.
Makes sense. Of course, Every group uses this rationale- it is the bad apples/weirdos/pervs in the minority making the rest of the group look bad. This helps give an air of legitimacy while still distances them from embarrassing associations.
Maybe Bronies would be better at enforcing higher standards among themselves, but I imagine it is hard to find or meet many other Bronies in real life. So when they do meet, perhaps the benign “I like it for the Doctor Who references” guy feels he can’t be choosy when it comes to his “I wrote Fallout Equestra, a rapwefic longer then War and Peace” Brony.
He has quite a few RL, in person, flesh and blood, Brony and (as I understand girls of the community are called) Pegasis friends. All are normal average everyday youngsters pretty much entrenched in the “geek/nerd” culture (geek and nerd are no longer pejoratives but a badge of honor). There is a convention similar to ComicCon they are all planning on going to as a group. He gravitated to it as an extension of liking anime, cartoons and comics as a whole.
Yeah, really. Fantasy bestiality stories, fer cryin’ out loud (and is it still bestiality if all characters are fantasy ponies and there’s no humans? and if they’re anthropomorphized, does it become furry instead? Questions!!!). At no time has there been an indication that the material in question had child-sex content. We’re getting all het up over extrapolating to other works by other people and the debate of whether “mere thoughts” are or are not to be exempt from censure.
armedmonkey, are you of the position that because the source material it derives from is in kid lit, even if the material itself does NOT contain any scenes depicting minors, pedophillic intentions *should *be presumed? (BTW and separate from that: The US Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled closer to Miller’s and Infovore’s definition of “child pornography” than to yours.)
I am on record as being on the side of as long as you do not cause, incite or advocate harm to anyone what you do in private is between you and your conscience/gods; just know not to expect public acclamation, and other individuals have a right to think you’re just wack. Someone wants to write about magical ponies having sex, or draw a scene of Princess Jasmine humping Rajah the tiger, or justs beat off while wearing a nun’s habit thinking of how hot is his car, what is it to me? Just don’t ask me to join.
OTOH, uploading to Amazon a guide to build up to a succesful molestation, as **Tuxie **referenced, that’s leaning in the direction of incitement, and thus beyond the pale.
I know I am late to this thread. I also see that you’re on the young side.
I’m a total live and let live kinda guy (within the bounds of consenting adults anyway). But heed this advice: Do Not Put ANYTHING Sexual Out There Which Can Be Traced Back To The IRL You.
Right or wrong, you’ve still got to get through the retirement of the boomers AND THEN the Gen X-ers (that’s me) before you maybe don’t have to worry about your online presence. And I can assure you that if you showed up before any of the companies I have worked at, HR would see something like that on FB and burn the resume.
I have a good career and am well respected in my field, but I STILL hear about an unfortunate incident at an offsite dinner where I had a little too much to drink when I was about 22. That was five companies ago. I got past it so that now it’s just part of the friendly joshing, but man, shit don’t die.
So assuming the OP was an honest question, my advice is to make sure there is a firewall between that world and the rest of your life
Clearly the discussion is moving in someone’s favor when people start saying, “No, it’s okay, he’s not talking about fucking children, just about fucking horses!”
Horses which are portrayed as child-like characters. It is a TV show that is unquestionably aimed at prepubescent children. The toys are aimed at prepubescent children. The cartoon is aimed at prepubescent children. I’m sure any and all officially-sanctioned media is aimed at prepubescent children. It is not for adults. Sexualizing something specifically and exclusively meant for children is a hair’s breadth from sexualizing children.
It’s awesome that there are so many people rushing to defend pedophilia, though. How many of you have kids?
Does that answer your question? No, I do not think BPC is writing child porn. I have stated that several times. Therefore, it should be obvious that I also don’t think that pedophiliac intentions should always be assumed.
What I despise is the argument, which is not actually being made by BPC himself, that all thought is “O.K.” My position is simple. Pedophilia fantasies are not “O.K.”. They are not something that should be excused in the name of “Rule 34”. I don’t know why some of you think that’s so controversial.
BPC, I believe the way the argument has moved ought to give you an indication of what to do. **OdOlds **advice is very on point.
Excellent. Thank you, it just makes clear there’s two discussions going on: the one specifically about BPC’s question; and the more general one, which he did not initiate and is not even necessarily about his material, about disturbing fantasies.
OK, now that is a position that many people do have/support. No quarrel with that, arguments will arise when though it comes to matters of what to do with what someone may write or publish.
And indeed, setting aside this particular subject, in *the general culture of the board *I believe one CAN perceive a dominant POV that “mere thoughts” or even further, “mere expression” are OK as long as no IRL actions are set in motion or advocated. Whether that’s a sound all-encompassing rule to go by is more of a Great Debates issue.
I suppose many people look at it in a sense of *"sure, [Idea X] is so vile it must be suppressed, a person should not even let it enter his head much less mention it… umm, wait, where is the line between that and [Idea Y] that may enter MY head? I’m not evil! Are ***you **going to be the one to draw that line?"; there’s a lot of slippery-sloping in BOTH directions happening in people’s minds.
Maybe in a discussion about pedophilia, we can avoid use of the “general you?” Unless you’re making a specific accusation about me, here.
Anyway, “Thoughts lead to actions” is not a truism. I have lots and lots of thoughts that never lead to actions, from “I should join a gym,” to “I want to burn down the Mormon Tabernacle.*” Hell, a good 90% of the entertainment I consume involves acts of *appalling *violence. I’m guessing you aren’t going to contend that it’s inevitable that I’m eventually going to start committing violent acts? As much as I may enjoy an idle fantasy about taking a rocket launcher through the halls of Congress, you wouldn’t actually suggest that I’m going to do it, right?
So, same thing with sexual fantasies. If I fantasize about sleeping with someone who’s not my boyfriend, I have not actually cheated on him, nor am I going to. If I fantasize about keeping a sex slave tied up in my closet, I’m not actually going to become a kidnapper and rapist. And if someone else fantasizes about sex with someone who’s underage, it does not automatically follow that they’re going to commit child abuse. Thoughts are not actions. 99% of thoughts never become actions. A thought that’s never acted on can be neither moral nor immoral, as a thought neither helps nor harms anyone else. It’s just a thought.
Child porn involving actual children just to be created means a child has been raped, so an actual human being has been violated and harmed.
Fictional erotic stories no matter how disturbing their subject matter do not hurt anyone, writing a story about committing genocide doesn’t make you Hitler.
Do I think erotica about raping children is gross and vile? Yes, but no human being is being harmed. There are a lot of fetishes I think are gross and vile, doesn’t mean anyone is being hurt.
The ponies, as stated earlier, are not child-like characters for the main part.
One of the reasons I think that My Little Pony has because so popular among young men is that it’s not really aimed at children. Sure, it’s suitable for children, but it isn’t “not for adults”. There are plenty of nods to the fandom in the later series, and in the “officially sanctioned” comic book series - I would go so far to say that those are actually aimed at the bronies, who buy more comics.
This is an issue I’m kinda torn on, really. I’d like to not be that bothered by the fact that people write “clop-fic”, but it’s a show I watch with my daughter. We’ve looked through fan-art together before now - there’s a lot of really good stuff that doesn’t even approach anything sexual - and it annoys me a little bit that I have to keep a careful eye on the thumbnails, and check things before she sees them. But also, I don’t think the internet is, or should be, safe to let children complete freedom in anyway.