How in the world did this madness start?

This is a question for Ed, though I’m guessing there will be lots of speculation from others.

Pretty straightforward: How did this madness start? According to Ed, this has been something he’s wanted for awhile – a kinder, gentler Pit.

That being said, there must have been something that set this whole mess off. Some have suggested it was the Colibri “butthurt” incident and the Lynn “cunt” matter. If this is true, then I would like to know how 2 relatively small issues exploded into an overhaul of the rules.

In another thread Ed talks about regretting how things turned out. That’s a good thing, and hopefully we’ll get a change of heart from TPTB regarding the rules change.

But I think a lot of us want to know, What exactly was it that set this whole mess off?

Some of this is speculation, some is based on comments from various mods and administrators, and some is based on the mystic power to read men’s minds.

AIUI, now that CL is in bankruptcy, they need the SDMB to be a revenue producer. They don’t make much money off Members, and especially Charter Members, at $15 per annum (or $7.48 in my case). So the idea is to get money from advertisers.

There are several issues in play -[ul][li]Members and Charter Members don’t have to look at the ads. Advertisers don’t like to sell ads on messageboards where people say “fuck you” a lot. [/ul][/li]
People are attracted to the SDMB because of the clever and creative posts that appear there. Some of these kinds of posts are certainly flames, but don’t totally rely on saying “fuck you”, but include other kinds of creative insults.

So the task is to get people to continue to post creative insults, and thus get people to join as Guests. Charter Members and Members tend to be computer-savvy to the point that they know how to block the ads. Guests (I imagine) are somewhat less so. So the idea is to shift away from CMs and Ms to Guests as much as possible.

Hence the ban on “cunt” and “fuck you” and so forth. The idea is to push the current Dopers towards creative insults (and, to some extent, push away the Usual Suspects whose modus operandi is skewed towards “fuck off, you fucking troll” posts aimed at those with whom they disagree).

So the ban on “cunt” and “fuck you” is designed to attract advertisers, and also to push current Dopers to post in ways that attract Guests. If the change drives off some Members and Charter Members, TPTB are hoping to make up the difference in Guests.

All this is my $.02 worth.

Regards,
Shodan

I lay the blame for much of this on the shoulders of a tiny minority here who seemed to relish any opportunity, no matter how trivial, to launch vicious and personal attacks on mods. Staff have been pitted here for years with no problem but over the last few months, in my opinion, the attacks (by some) grew far more venomous and hateful, as if the posters blamed the mods for everything from the death of their first puppy to their old lady running off with the pool guy.

Ed may have been unhappy with the language in the Pit anyway (although he’d never indicated as much before) but I have a feeling that these virulent attacks on his staff acted as the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Here’s my WAG:

Ed went into panic mode once the AD Guys started noticing sexual content on the front page. Decided to make the Dope kinder and gentler.

Mini-migration ensues.

Then I am sure you would not mind a few links to the offending posts.

Just close The Pit altogether. No Pit, no [del]poor, sensitive Admins[/del] one gets offended by naughty words.

But that still doesn’t fix the real problem.

FWIW, Ed has repeatedly said that this change had nothing to do with money.

So what exactly do you expect me to search for? Virulent attacks on staff of a greater intensity than those in the preceding 12 months? I stated in my post that this was opinion, my impression. I could well be wrong, but I certainly don’t need cites to express an opinion.

Look, if you guys insist on throwing in your guesses about the motivations, and your guesses include nasty characterizations of those who disagree with you, you’re just going to turn this thread into yet another endless argument. Could you give it a rest and let the OP get his question answered factually?

Sheesh. People are jerks. (see what I did there?)

Read the OP again.

Enough said.

To my recollection, there were only two (2) “virulent” attacks on staff members in the last year or so and in both cases, the staff started it.

In one case, someone posted a political thread that pissed an admin off. The admin made up a rule that hasn’t been enforced before or since and yelled at the poster for not anticipating that this new rule would be invented after he posted. The admin was told to “fuck off” by the poster (who was then suspended) and called a “cunt” by another poster (who wasn’t).

In the other case, a mod (as a poster) was in an argument with another poster. He kept tap-dancing back and forth across the “I’m a mod–can’t touch me. Ha! I’m a poster again, so I can insult you. Oops! Back to mod-no touchie!!” The poster, frustrated, said that the mod-acting-as-a-poster was “butthurt”. Apparently, in some odd South-or-Central American dialect, “butt-hurt” means “I will take my biker-gang to the back of this alley with me and cut you in a knife-fight*”, so the mod/poster was “taken aback” at the violence of the comment. The poster-now-in-100% mod mode got backing from other staff members. Eventually, the other poster said either “FOAD” or actually said the words “Fuck off and die”. Since that WAS a threat (he’s wishing death, see…) he was suspended.

And this is why I’m mad. I remember the days when mods and posters were on the same side. I remember when posters weren’t so frustrated by arbitrary and capricious abuse of authority by mods/admins that more often than not, when someone pitted a mod, the pit-ee got piled on, usually in a pretty nasty fashion. People vehemently defended the mods because the mods weren’t seen as outsiders, they were members–participants who did NOT use their authority for cheap shit like winning arguments or warning (in all but name) people who don’t share their political views. Rules weren’t invented on the fly or created to just deal with a single incident. (Heh–remember the “Non-Pit Thread Rules” rule that was invoked…um…twice? Three times? And once by me before it was decided that only mods/admins could invoke that rule)

The amount of good-will and camaraderie that’s been squandered is sickening.

I don’t know exactly what started it.

It wasn’t Tubagate. That camaraderie still existed (although somewhat more strained) afterwards. Aldeberan-gate was a wash–about as many posters were pissed as were satisfied.

Pay to Post had a LOT to do with it. First, members kept trying to convince the powers that be that a model that made people pay to provide content for the board was a bad model and every suggestion was treated with barely-disguised contempt.

Posting on the board diminished at least somewhat, long-time regular posters (the mainstay of any board) left and 30-day drive-by posters appeared…and knowing they only had 30 days to post, only a few of them made the effort to learn the Board culture or community (which was predicted by most of the posters and dismissed by the powers that be).

People who’d paid to be charter members and were long-time board contributors who’d missed a payment deadline by even a few days were told to fuck off, being a part of the board for 8 or 9 years isn’t worth the fact that you missed a deadline by a tiny amount and it’s just too, too much bother to keep you as a charter member (we just had 2 more cases of that in the last month or so). No amount of contribution or loyalty to the board bought you even a little consideration. The deadline is the deadline and the rules are the rules.

All the while, arcane rules appeared and disappeared on a regular basis, some mods point-blank said that they didn’t moderate all posters the same way–they wanted to “preserve viewpoints” (close paraphrase–Aldebaran got a pass for quite a while on the same excuse, come to think of it) and the board performance was getting worse. But at this stage, I think people had started to get angry

Then charter members, who’d paid to be ad-free, were suddenly forced to see ads. The uproar then was pretty loud and that lasted about a week.

It’s one thing to go to your buddy’s house for a (free) party and provide music (content) while he provides the space (board)–and if his house isn’t in the best of shape, that’s not a prob-you’re not paying for it. But imagine paying to go to a resturant–the wait-staff keeps changing the dress-code so you don’t know if it’s formal or jeans-and-tee-shirt, the roof leaks, your food doesn’t come on time, some of the waiters berate people randomly (while, to be fair, most of the staff treats everyone with class and dignity). But then to subject those customers to ads…? That may have been one of the final straws, even though the administration reacted (by the SDMB’s standards) pretty quickly.

Then they decided to drop pay-to-post and start making changes designed to “fix” the board–with no input from the members about what changes actually needed to be made.

So rules like the current “Customers must not criticize the staff”** or the “Non-pit rules apply” rules–all designed to protect the mods from criticism, but strangely, no rules concerning staff behavior. And then, on top of that, being told that our input regarding board-culture issues is so valueless that they’d rather work at McDonald’s than consider the member’s opinions, and if you don’t like it, go find another board. That seems to be THE final straw for a lot of people.

And I think people are fed up with A) being treated like children, B) being given random, arbitrary and often contradictory rules, and C) not being consulted for input on board culture/atmosphere type issues–just having them dictated by a stranger who pops in to post about 9 times a year on average and 100% of the time sides with the staff was the final straw.

Congrats if you’ve gotten this far. I already see the “TLDR” comments (oops–another one-shot rule–you can’t say “TLDR” in response to a post. Or at least you couldn’t for about 15 minutes–that rule vanished soon after a poster who used it was (rightfully) banned) and the “If you don’t like it so much, why don’t you leave?” posts.

And the main reason I’m not fully leaving, although I’m posting less and less (although you couldn’t tell from this post :wink: ) is there was a culture here that I loved and appreciated. I miss the days when mods and posters enjoyed each other rather than the current unhealthy adversarial mode we’re stuck in now. My hope is that by posting, I can help things get better. There was great stuff here, even in the worst of times–good people (mods and posters both), good posts, good information. And maybe things aren’t so broken that they can’t be fixed.

Fenris

*This is a little hyperbole for humorous effect…but not nearly as much hyperbole as you might expect…the actual words “knife-fight” were the mods.

**In it’s current incarnation–see QED’s thread where he says Lynn sucks as a mod and is admonished for criticizing her moderation. A few days ago, it was “Don’t insult the mods personally, but you can freely discuss their actions”. Tomorrow it might be something different.

I may not agree with all of it, Fenris, but that’s a damn fine post. I’m glad that you’re not fully leaving.

Fenris pretty much covers it, except for the reasons for the breadth and depth of the recent outrage, but I doubt that there is a simple, tidy explanation for that.

To some extent this is a “straw that broke the camel’s back” thing. It was just another straw, small and insignificant in itself; but in combination with all the other straws, it proved to be too much.

It is safe to say that the matter could have been “handled better”. At any rate, I see some problems in the development, promulgation and defense of the new rules that encouraged this mess.

Beyond this, I simply don’t know what to say. I don’t really grasp the reasons for my own outrage and frustration, but they are certainly there.

One thing you may be sure of: there has never, in the six years I’ve been here, been a shitstorm like the one swirling around us now. This reaction is unprecedented. Think of it: in about ten days’ time a third to a half of the active membership has signed up with one or both of two splinter boards that simply did not exist two weeks ago. After being peremptorily told, “Love it or leave it,” many are choosing the latter option.

Bury your heads in the sand if you want to, but this crisis is real.

Amen to that! And I sincerely hope everyone realizes now – most importantly, that the board staff realizes – that the issue is not about whether one may be a potty-mouth in the Pit. Rather, it’s the climate of the Board.

Another board I’ve been a member of has had the same sort of situation – rules laid down as if brought down Mount Sinai on stone tablets, a staff that views criticism as condemnation and seeks revenge – and no matter how many changes were made, the damage had been done: the present staff there, who are by and large reasonable, are viewed with distrust and apprehension by the membership – because they nevr know when they’ll tread on someone’s toes and get the axe. I am seeing the germ of that distrust here, and I don’t like it. And some self-examination by the moderation staff will hopefully clue them in to what needs doing to repair it.

That’s all I have to say for now. I like the Dope; I hope it doesn’t fall prey to what happened to that other board. If I didn’t seriously fear that it might, I wouldn’t be so outspoken on this situation.

I think we need to look into Ed’s early potty training for a complete answer to “Where did this all start?”

I’d heard it was mothers who vaseline their nipples during breastfeeding that were the problem. The little suckers can’t get a grip and it all spirals out of control from there on.

Fenris really covered most of it very well, but didn’t really stress the issue of failures of the board to work, which really raises everyone’s frustration level. For instance, the feature we laughingly call “search”. I know I don’t pay a lot for the use of this site, but as someone else said the other day, what good is all this accumulated knowledge we have in our data base if we can’t find it?

How did it start? Well, in 1914 a firebrand Serbian student named Prinzip called the Arch-Duke of Austria a cunt in Sarajevo. Due to a complicated network of treaties, a butthurt France challenged Russia to a knife-fight in a Panama alley, and Britain then was obliged to tell the Kaiser to fuck off and eat shit. My history’s a little rusty after that, but I do recall that the League Of Nations was set up afterwards to make sure that such a destructive pissing match could never happen again by telling everybody not to swear anymore. Unfortunately, Germany was forced to apologise for calling Europe a bunch of pussy-faced cunt-lappers, and they then swept Hitler into power on a platform of not only wishing that other posters would piss off and die in a fire but actively ensuring their charred deaths. After that it gets a little complicated…

Yeah, I did. I don’t see an invitation to yet another all-out-bickerfest.

That’s pretty much it. I probably would have let things lie had it not been for the abusive remarks directed at staff over the past few months.