I’m guessing that polling a 14 year old about a movie star whose heyday was literally 35 years before he was born is kind of pointless. If you’d grabbed me when I was 14 and started asking me questions about Gregory Peck or Robert Mitchum, I might have recognized them from a few of the war movies that were always on. But had you asked me about Spencer Tracy or Burt Lancaster, I’d probably have recognized the name, but not known a damn thing about them. Now that I’m older, I’ve actually seen several of each of their films.
A lot of people come to realize that good movies are kind of timeless, and make a point to watch them, or watch them in their original state.
**Paul Newman founded the Hole in the Wall Gang Camp for children stricken with cancer, AIDS, and blood diseases. One afternoon, he and his wife, Joanne Woodward, stopped by to have lunch with the kids. A counselor at a nearby table, suspecting the young patients wouldn’t know Newman was a famous movie star, explained, “That’s the man who made this camp possible. Maybe you’ve seen his picture on his salad dressing bottle?”
Blank stares.
“Well, you’ve probably seen his face on his lemonade carton.”
An eight-year-old girl perked up. “How long was he missing?”**
On a personal, note, I was sad when Paul Newman died. I wore my Charlestown Chiefs hockey jersey (with the number 7, for Reggie Dunlop, of course) all that day as a tribute.
But the whole question that we’re discussing is “How long before [a] majority of people forget that Paul Newman was an actor?” So majorities certainly do come into it. When that day arrives that you’re describing, when film buffs are the only ones who remember Paul Newman, that will be the day the condition the OP is asking about is fulfilled. Possibly even sooner than that.
Nobody is talking about when Paul Newman will be forgotten, such that literally no on on earth remembers his existence. The question is about when his pop culture identity as a face on food products will outweigh his pop culture identity as a movie star. Arguably, that time is fast approaching. This is simply how pop culture works. It’s fleeting, almost by definition, and only a very few people or things end up retaining their level of recognition indefinitely. “How fleeting is fame” is a cliche for a reason.
I’m thinkin’ of Senator Claghorne, a stock character performed by a radio comedian whose name escapes me at the moment.
Someone at Warner Brothers Animation liked the schtick, and they basically borrowed it for the Foghorn Leghorn character.
…and this is the sole reason Senator Claghorne is remembered at all: because it was translated over for a new audience. And even most of them couldn’t tell you who the comedian was, me included.
I was greatly amused, though, that when the Tasmanian Devil got his own cartoon show, a side character was a young bushman, named… Francis X. Bushlad.
Personally, I used “ignorant” in the non-derogatory sense of “not knowing something”. I wouldn’t judge someone’s personality or worth by the fact that they don’t know who Paul Newman is. But I would conclude that they’re not especially knowledgeable about the movie industry. Which is just fine.
I’m not especially knowledgeable about the field of wood carving, and if I went to a woodcarving expo and talked to the customers there, they could easily detect my ignorance when they ask if I’m familiar with Ebony “Chainsaw” Whittler’s work and I said “Who?”. That doesn’t make me less of a person, but it does make me less of a woodcarving buff than they are. And that’s fine.
My point is simply that it’s wrong to judge the giants of a field by polling children and other people who are not knowledgeable about that field. Paul Newman is and will always remain a giant in the acting and film making professions. The actors and filmmakers of today stand on his (among others’) shoulders and will most certainly be familiar with his work. His recognizability among people who aren’t in that industry, and have no interest in it besides the occasional summer afternoon diversion, is irrelevant.
I’m seeing this more and more around my dad’s favorite entertainer ever… Elvis. There’s not nearly as much paraphernalia to buy about him anymore. When dad goes to watch an impersonator, there are usually no one under mid-thirties in the crowd. I used to know several folks that collected anything that even remotely had to do with him, but now? Just two and one is related to me. So, if the most famous singer of all time is beginning to wane in popularity, I have no doubt believing that anyone under his status will end up being various degrees of “forgotten.” Such is the circle of life.
And just like has been mentioned up thread, I noticed something similar when I was a kid. I’ve always been the biggest movie buff out of anyone I knew, then the internet happened and I found out I was pretty small potatoes. Still, as such, I grew up watching whatever I could on TV and knew who, say, Omar Sharif, Loretta Young and Clara Bow was because of occasional mentions or whatever. Then one day, you never heard them mentioned anymore, until you see them listed in a Dope thread of either ‘I thought X was already dead!’ or 'I can’t believe so-and-so just died because I’d forgotten all about them." So, yeah.
Finally, I personally deal with this over my man Alice. At one point in time, he was the biggest rockstar in the world. Now, some young people only know him for DJing. It’s should be shocking, but I’m sure with enough passing of years, it’ll happen to everyone but the absolute hugest icons of their genre.
Under a strict reading of the question, I imagine a technical majority of the population forgot who Paul Newman was long before he died. The vast majority of people alive now do not know who Jerry Seinfeld or Robert Deniro are either, two huge, still-working actors with lots of visibility.
Pop culture simply isn’t a monolithic thing anymore. There was a time in America when not knowing Frank Sinatra or Elvis was like admitting you were from a primitive tribe deep in Africa. But nowadays I can get by without having heard a single bit of Taylor Swift’s work, despite the fact that she’s apparently one of the biggest stars in the world right now. I’m sure there are similarly huge stars in her genre who I have never heard of, because I have decades’ worth of music and musicians to discover in genres I actually like. I imagine that right now, under a literal reading of the OP’s question, a majority of people don’t know who Taylor Swift is. But it’s silly to say she’s forgotten.
Look, I would never disparage the good name of Paul Newman. He was a leader in his field, a terrific actor, an absolute beauty. But there is worth in asking about the general knowledge of the population at large. It’s not irrelevant to wonder about the changing tides of cultural awareness, and to make note of the oddity of a person who has a good shot at not being swallowed up by obscurity (regarding the general public), but instead fished out, pinned up, and displayed as something else altogether.
Also, I wasn’t actually polling children. I’m not a statistician, nor a sociologist. A conversation with my nephew (which, by the way, didn’t even go the way it was presented in the OP - there were far fewer complete sentences, and more uninterested grunts of vague acknowledgement, as anyone who has raised a teenage boy will recognize) sparked my thoughts on the subject. I have no formal research on the topic of the recognizability of Paul Newman. I simply feel that it’s a safe bet that, like a vast majority of famous people, one day only those with a specialized interest will know his name.
I’ll bet if I went out and asked 50 people who Caravaggio was, or Rene Magritte, most people wouldn’t know. Doesn’t make those artists unimportant.
I agree that Paul Newman was a terrific actor, iconic in his day, and that anyone in my age group or among any group of film students would know exactly who he is and be able to name some things he’s done, sure.
Among the 20-30 demographic, I ain’t so certain.
I’d hate to think the same is happening with Elvis, though. Or Charlie Chaplin, for that matter.
You’ve totally turned everything that people have said here on its head.
I don’t think anyone is judging the giants by saying they will be forgotten. The point that most in this thread have been making is that Newman (et al.), despite being important within the industry, despite having a permanent place in the annals of film history, will fade from the public consciousness. Most people will forget that he’s an actor. ‘Most’ people are the very people who aren’t in the industry and who follow film as a diversion is exactly what this thread is about. If you want to say that those people’s opinions are “irrelevant” (Irrelevant to what exactly I’m not sure), well, I don’t know what to say. Maybe start a thread in GD about whether or not the opinions of non-arts-experts are “relevant” or not.
Everyone will fade from the public consciousness. Taylor Swift will spend her whole career out of mine, and many others too. It’s easy to avoid her. The nature of celebrity has changed and we have yet to see how powerful the pull of older movies from any given decade will penetrate. But Paul Newman will end up with a higher fame quotient than Taylor Swift I predict in the end. We are at the level of 4 hours of fame for each celebrity, heading towards 15 seconds. When Paul fades he won’t be replaced by another star. It’ll be the whole omniverse of fame and content creation. There doesn’t need to be a Hollywood in the future.
His face on products will continue, and is not related to his fame. He will be a famous face on products, like Uncle Ben or Aunt Jemima.
“Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid,” among other films, are not going to be lost or forgotten. And I would agree that Paul Newman was more important in his field than Taylor Swift is in hers. At least for the time being.
But the fact remains that American pop culture runs on novelty. You’re only as good as your last entertainment venture. And Paul Newman ain’t made a whole lot of movies, lately. Steve McQueen was a powerhouse in his day, but today, he is not well remembered by the average joe or jane.
It does kind of make me wonder what will be remembered as “classic” and what will be, y’know, sorta fallen by the wayside. Will future film students remember Paul Newman? Sure. Will they remember Ben Affleck? Or Tom Cruise? And if so, will it be with any fondness?
I’ve often thought about this issue, regarding music. We are blessed, today, to have virtually every piece of music that’s ever been composed, right at our fingertips. But how many young people would bother to listen to something by Bach or Beethoven? How many can name one song by Gershwin or Cole Porter? Or, yes, an Elvis hit?
And back to film: How many know that Charlton Heston had another career, before being president of the NRA? And these days, how many even remember him as president of the NRA?
There’s an old song, “Our Love Is Here to Stay.” Unfortunately, the song itself wasn’t here to stay.
Jerry Seinfeld was on Letterman once, telling a story about being at the Hole in the Wall Gang Camp. He was up on stage either doing a routine or just talking with the folks there, when Paul walks up on stage and just stands there, grinning. Seinfeld tries to ignore him, but Paul won’t go away–if anything he looks like the cat that swallowed the canary; he was fit to burst with the giggles. After minutes of this, Jerry turns to Paul and bellows, “Hello, Newman!” Everyone loses it.