You know what I mean. Obi-wan’s “These are not the droids you’re looking for” trick? (Is there a name for it?) Presumably the Stormtroopers let them go and then forget all about them, but what if they remembered them? Or would that mean the Jedi in question hadn’t done it properly, not saying, “We’re not what you want; forget we were ever here” but “Just let us go”?
And IIRC Obi-wan explains that being able to do what he did has something to do with his targets being “weak-minded” – does that mean they have to be kind of dumb or sort of mentally lazy? What if his target were a very clever, alert sort of person? Are there humans (not like Watto) who cannot be influenced?
…Maybe I should go home and re-think my life. Never mind…
The Expanded Universe semi-canon had dark Jedi that could completely reprogram people’s minds. Going by the movies however I think it was far more limited than that. About the same length of time it takes Elmer Fudd to say “Hey! That was the Wabbit!”
It’s longer than that. In one of the prequels, Obi-Wan tells a death-stick dealer that he wants to go home and rethink his life, which is probably a span of a couple of hours or so.
And “weak-willed” is not the same thing as “dumb”. The only people we’ve seen the mind trick work on are soldiers and lackeys trained to just follow orders without question, the afore-mentioned death-stick dealer, and Gungans. I expect that it wouldn’t do much of anything to a human who reflexively questions authority, or who is just particularly independent or stubborn.
I have a feeling that if the specific trooper from the movie were asked any time later, he’d say, “Yeah, we found some droids, but they weren’t the ones we were looking for.” Ben influenced the guys judgement, didn’t just put him in a trance.
the first comment made me giggle for longer than appropriate. the retort had me full out guffawing.
also, question: isn’t the jedi mind trick kind of… dark? free will and all that. the older i get and the more cynical i get, the less i equate jedi/sith with good/evil but really just rivaling religions. i’m just assuming there are masses of atheist force wielders that are just shaking their heads and making snarky SDMB threads in GD about force-jesus being the single most evil character in SW history.
In KOTOR the Jedi are capable of reprogramming Revan. I think that those troopers that Obi tricked won’t ever know what happened. If anyone were to specifically remind them of that incident they’d say “Oh, those weren’t the droids we were looking for.” If you asked how they knew that then maybe it’d start to unravel.
That’s a good point. However, aside from the force itself, things are seldom black and white. I always got the impression, particularly from the prequel novelizations, that ‘mind tricking’ was something that Jedi Padawans were taught, but also had it pounded through their skulls that they weren’t to do it unless their cause was true and circumstances were dire. Can’t give you chapter and verse on that, though.
Only after Revan was near death anyway by virtue of being on a receiving end of laser fire from a capital ship. One would have to assume that that was a special case; he was effectively dead, and was just barely kept alive by the sheer force of a Jedi’s will.
The idea of being able to manipulate a person’s mind is so interesting because we assume that we’re logically leading our lives from point to point and so if someone momentarily turns you in a different direction, that you’d notice the logical inconsistently later on. But I’m betting you wouldn’t. Our memories are amazingly flexible, and will fill in whatever gaps need to be filled. Every single person on this board, every one of you, including me, has an image of the past, in the form of your memory, that is in fact VERY different from the truth. You misremember a lot that you’ll swear up and down you remember perfectly.
So my guess is that the Jedi Mind Trick only works for a few minutes, but after that the memory will simply follow logically from that point. The stormtroopers will remember that Luke et al. simply were not suspicious, and they’ll fill in whatever reason they need to justify it. “Look, it wasn’t them, okay? I mean, they just didn’t fit the description.”
The “weak minded” bit is a plot convenience (the galaxy would be a very different place of the Jedi Mind Trick worked on anyone) and you can generally assume that “Weak-minded” will always mean “his will isn’t important to the plot.”
I felt that scene where Obi-Wan does the mind trick on the death-stick dealer was a good example of how far the Jedis had fallen from their ideals. Obi-Wan had no right to mess with someone’s mind in that way. The Jedi also seemed to be above the law in a unsettling way. Anakin casually dismisses everybody at the bar after the fight with the assassin by stating that it was “Jedi business”.
Also, the drug was called Death-sticks. Really? That’s the best name you could come up with? Hasn’t anybody in the Star Wars universe heard of marketing? How about Fun-sticks, Happy-sticks, or Makes you feel very good with no bad side effects so you can use as many as you want in one go and oh by the way I have a two for one deal just for you but it’s a limited time offer only-sticks? Death-sticks sound very off-putting from a marketing perspective.
I feel the same way about “acid,” actually, but what do I know?
Obi-wan was just telling a drug dealer to get lost, not to go jump off a building (although the world, any world, might be better if they did, of course).
And isn’t the plural of Jedi, “Jedi”? Not “Jedis.” Just clarifying. Like “reindeer.”
And is “Jedi” still considered a religion in New Zealand?
Stormtrooper: Lord Vader, we found some droids, but they were not the droids we were looking for, and we did not need to see anyone’s I.D. Also, Obi-Wan was totally doing Padme the whole time. Darth Vader: I knew it! Obi-Wan is here! Stormtrooper: Urkhk–Gakkh… Darth Vader:I must deal with this…alone! And I knew about that nerf-heder and Padme, too. Two-timing little minx…
I always got the impression, particularly from the prequel novelizations, that ‘mind tricking’ was something that Jedi Padawans were taught, but also had it pounded through their skulls that they weren’t to do it unless their cause was true and circumstances were dire. Can’t give you chapter and verse on that, though.
