How many gay men were molested before knowing they're gay?

Great Debates
1

I don’t feel particularly comfortable asking this, but it’s something I’ve wondered about. How many men who are currently homosexual have been sexually molested by a men/men at any time of their life prior to the discovery of the molested of their homosexuality? I know exact numbers or percentages would be impossible to provide, but what’s the general trend?

Background: On a listserv I was on many years ago, it seemed I was one of very few people who were not sexually molested. The majority of the rest were, usually by a relative.

WRS - mods: if this is an inapporiate thread, please shut down and I offer my apologies and regret.

2

None of the ones I know have ever admitted to molestation, and most of these are close friends and family members that have disclosed other “big deal” bits of information.

3

Are they close enough that they would reveal such an issue? From what I recall, it takes a lot of trust in someone before one would even consider revealing such information, especially if it has no relevance between the two.

I’m very glad there are more gay people out there who have not been molested. (When I told my bishop I was gay, the first thing he asked was if any family member abused me. Didn’t register until I began talking to other gay people and realized that many of them had been abused.)

WRS

4

Not in my experience, at least with females. The number who have told me over the year of having been sexually molested who I only was minimally acquainted with to me has been shocking. In fact long ago I actually did some research at a college library about this issue, and found to my surprise this sort of thing is nowhere as rare as I had assumed. :frowning: It may be that it is easier to speak of such when the relationship isn’t that close. And, it may be that they quickly sense that I wouldn’t find such shocking. Heck, I’ve got a MP3 of Janis Ian’s “Breaking Silence” available for download on my main website. (For those unfamilar with the song, you can easily find out where to download it with a Google search. Or, check out my profile.) Unfortunate that I am noe of the belief that childhood sexual molestation isn’t at all uncommon. :frowning:

However, I’ve only personally talked with one man who told me he had been sexually molested as a child. It may be that men are far less likely to speak of this sort of thing than women. They’d just rather keep this hidden from others, rather than “break silence” and admit it.

5

FWIW, rfgdxm’s post has a big truth in it- a *lot[/]i] of people are molested. I can think of any number of people (all happen to be straight) who have told me they have been molested. It is common enough that knowing a lot of gay people who have been molested doesn’t prove much.

6

What sort of people participated in this listserv? From the context above, I’ll assume it was limited to homosexual men. Is there any particular reason to think that male homosexuals who had been sexually molested in childhood would have gravitated to this listserv? Obviously this topic was being discussed that you could say all but a few people hadn’t been sexually molested. Perhaps people who had been sexually molested recommended this listserv to others who had been molested? What I am getting at is it may be that this listserv was a very non-random sample of gay men.

7

I believe it’s a legitimate question; I’m certain WRS is not trolling here. And the answers, on a wide-membership board where people are (save for a few folks) not judged for their orientation or their past, might be quite interesting.

I think I’ve mentioned several times having counseled 22 troubled young men while I had my three “sons” – 20 of them opened up to me about abuse, either emotional, physical, or sexual. I think there were nine of them who had experienced sexual abuse, seven straight and two Kinsey-1 bisexual (“mostly heterosexual but have experienced passing homosexual interest or stimilation”).

I know several gay board members have spoken of adolescent experiences that were highly positive for them – rejecting the term “molestation”; they were consensual by their accounts – that would fall under our sociological/legal heading of “adult molestation of adolescents.”

I’d suggest this might be explored as a topic without any sense that anyone is implying or inferring homosexuality=pedophilia or any of the other snide putdowns that occur.

8

I think for the purpose of this thread that “molestation” should be defined only as non-consensual gay sex during adolescence; although there is the possible gray area of someone having incestuous gay sex while an adolescent as adolescent with an adult family member. I notice that WeRSauron mentions “at any time of their life prior to the discovery of the molested of their homosexuality”. I’d presume if at the time the adolscent didn’t consider themself to be gay, they would have considered it molestation at that point. I’d consider the sociological/legal definition of “adult molestation of adolescents” to include purely consensual sex is very culturally biased. In much of the world, anyone past the age of puberty is considered capable of consenting to sexual realtionships. In my state it would be illegal to have sex even with a woman who was 16. In many places in the world, a 17 year old virgin female would be uncommon. If they hadn’t found a guy to marry by then, their family would have arranged a marriage. The common US definition of when a child becomes an adult is a lot higher than much of the planet.

9

I had my first homosexual experience at 15 with a man who was 22. I did not consider it molestation. Hell, I was ready for it and it was mutual. I do believe he thought I was older because I met him at a party that was supposedly all adults. I looked older than 15 because I’ve always had a heavy beard and with a five o’clock shadow did look a few years older. It’s also how I was able to buy beer at a store that wasn’t well known for looking close at id if they thought you were old enough. So, no I don’t think I was molested because it was mutual and the guy probably did think I was older than I was.

10

Although this is just anecdotal, I was a psych nurse for 15 years, and from my experience most people were “molested” in childhood. I put the term in quotes, not to minimise the possible trauma, but to imply that it is a complex and broader issue.

IOW, not restricted to gays - and I agree with even sven that it doesn’t prove much re your OP debate criteria.

11

Nope. No one has ever laid a finger on me in that manner without my consent. Ever.

12

If I may be forgiven some broad speculation, if there really are more gay men who say they’ve been molested it may be that gay men are simply more willing to talk about it than straight men.

There could be a variety of reasons for this. Perhaps in the process of coming out a gay man would have to do more thinking about his sexuality and past sexual experiences (consensual and non) than a straight man. I’ve also heard that some straight men are hesitant to speak about being sexually abused as children in part because they’re afraid that people will think they’re gay. An openly gay man at least wouldn’t have to deal with that fear.

13

As a data point, I’m gay and was not molested.

To futher mess with the ancedotes: This story is set when I was about 10. The Assemblies of God churches have an organization call Royal Rangers, which is a group similar to the (in their mind far too liberal and secular) Boy Scouts. One of the men who was in charge of the group at my church “touched” several of the boys in the group. But not me. Most of the boys who were touched grew up to be ministers in the AOG church. If you use the logic of the OP, then maybe being fondled makes you grow up to be a preacher.

BTW, like the RCC, the incident was swept under the rug. The preacher of this church convinced the parents of the boys involved not to alert the police and simply removed the man from his post and none of us were allowed to go on his paper route with him again. If I were cynical, I’d suggest that ancedotal evidence leads to the conclusion that churches foster child molestation and helps cover it up.

14

No, I think WRS was attempting to explore the congeries of questions that that common assumption raises. Like this:

(1) Is there any sort of connection, or even a statistical anomaly, raising the issue?

(2) If not, why is this so common an assumption among the uninformed?

(3) If there is a connection, what might it be? Note that that is not necessarily a facile “molestation turns you gay,” but something as plausible as “Many boys and men might find themselves to enjoy gay sex, but are predominantly straight in orientation, and never discover this about themselves. Those who have been molested in a quasi-consensual manner do discover it, and are therefore more inclined to be actively bisexual, at least in outlook.” Or “a traumatic molestation makes one doubt one’s manhood – and therefore one’s ability to function with the opposite sex – which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. They therefore turn to what worked in their childhood for sexual fulfillment.” Any number of psychological bases for a connection are possible. And of course no one would be suggesting that it is the only causal factor, but may be a contributing factor.

All these are worth exploring, in a nonjudgmental, non-homophobic way. I’d be interested in seeing what connections there are, simply because I remain in touch with several of those people who were molested, and what help I can be to them, as a friend who tries to understand what’s going on with them, ought to be founded on reasonable psychological data, even if it is anecdotal, to be of any value to them.

15

Polycarp’s got it.

The listserv I was on was for young gay teenage men and women (with a vast majority being male). It was restricted by age. Even the moderators (I think they were called “administrators” or “admins”) had to belong to that age group. It was founded as something for young peeps by young peeps; just something for gay teenagers to get together and talk. For some, who were closeted or isolated, this was their only contact with other gay people. I’ve met some wonderful people on the list. But this is besides the point.

I do not believe molestation causes homosexuality. Homosexuality, in my perspective, is a very complex issue, and so one or any definitive causes cannot be listed for it. Nevertheless, there are elements that contribute, I suppose one may say, to such a sexual orientation. Remembering from my college psych class, there are many theories as to how sexual orientation develops; this adds to the complexity: when we can’t say how exactly any person’s sexual orientation develops, how can we point fingers to specific causes as causing a certain sexual orientation? This also means that we cannot rule out any element that might influence the development of sexual orientation.

I remember reading - and I honestly have no idea where I read this - that sexual molestation of a young male by another (usually older) male (and I’m referring to non-consentual acts or at the very least acts that the younger one would not understand or comprehend as yet) interrupts the natural development of the young male’s sexuality, thereby orienting his sexuality towards men. (There was an explicit reasoning as to how and why this occured, but it escapes me.) If I remember correctly, the young male should be sexually developing - that is, pubescent and not prepubescent (thereby making the molester an ephebophile). (I don’t think pedophilia has an affect on sexual orientation, although certainly it does have an affect on other more significant issues, such as trust, sexuality, comfortableness with one’s own sexuality, perhaps.)

Now, I would like to take a minute and say that I, in no way, believe that even if the above is true, that homosexuality is unnatural. Because it’s part of the person’s innate nature, it is by definition natural. Whether it fits evolutionary logic is another matter (and I have my own crackpot theories about homosexuality and evolutionary logic). I am gay. It’s part of who I am. To me, this is natural, it is my nature.

To put a different spin on the OP: how many young men have been molested by men but turned out to be straight as any other straight man? How does this compare to young molested men turning out to be gay?

Again: even if this has an affect, I seriously doubt it has a definitive affect or is the only cause of a homosexual orientation among men. As said earlier, it would be interesting to study this phenomenon if, at the very least, to put down incorrect theories held by some.

I hope this makes sense.

WRS - gay, and quite comfortably so, thankyouverymuch.

16

I’ve had sexual experiences with adult men as a minor, but I can’t say I was ever really molested. There were some incidences when you’re basic “dirty old man” tried it, but I was always able to say “no” and exit the situation.

The times I didn’t say “no” I can’t really call molestation. From my perspective, as the 14, 15 or 16 year old it was basically, “woo hoo! Hot man sex! With an adult! How cool!” Emotionally & psychologically, I felt it was basically natural & fun. The problem starts when society & culture step in and remind you that it’s sick, sick, sick. Then you become conflicted. “Should I have enjoyed that? Did I just get molested?”

Now when I was in college & my early years in the Army, I was perceived as the “cool non-judgmental guy” you could share some of your problems/secrets with. I probably had at least six guys come out to me and every single one of them related very similar stories about how they first realized they were gay around the time they were molested or raped by men.

I never could quite buy into the idea that being molested or raped turned them gay though, because I was gay at the time too (but still heavily closeted) and I was aware of my same-sex attraction way before I had any sexual contact with the same sex. What I saw after talking with them for awhile, asking questions about what happened, it seemed to me these guys already had the same sex orientation, but without a safe healthy outlet to explore it, instead got themselves into dangerous situations with adults they weren’t ready for. Also, I think for a young guy who is still struggling through the coming out process, struggling to accept himself, it’s easier to just point to that “incident” in the locker room at the “Y” and say “that made me gay, it’s not my fault!”

17

I have a tentative theory about this.

Not that molestation or semi-consensual sexual contact turns you gay, but rather the opposite. That pedophiles are experts at looking for people who will be good victims. Kids who don’t relate to their parents, or who are sexually confused, or who feel they need to keep their sexuality secret make much better candidates for abuse. Pedophiles don’t just pick their victims at random.

18

Many years ago, when I was a Crisis Intervention Counselor (and a Gay Peer Counselor), I remember being struck by the enormous number of people of both genders who had been abused (sexually, physically, emotionally) at some point in their lives. The people who opened up most easily were women (both gay and straight), followed by gay men.

It was not uncommon for a straight guy to talk about physical abuse, or even emotional abuse, but to be reluctant to discuss sexual abuse. It was there, once you learned to read between the lines, but really difficult for them to talk about it.

So I don’t think it’s possible to come to any statistical conclusion about this.

For the record, I was never molested, and I knew I was gay many years before my first sexual encounter (consensual, to say the least).

19

I very much appreciate what’s been said so far. My understanding of this issue is expanding.

WRS

20

I’m gay and never experienced any abuse, sexual or otherwise (unless you count my evangelical upbringing, which made me question my worth as a person). However, I know one straight man who told me he was molested at the age of 8 by a 15 year old boy. I think the activity he was referring to might have been the older boy masturbating in front of him, and I’m not sure if any fondling occurred. So there’s a data point for you—not all boys who are molested by other boys or men turn out gay. I do know that this person is now very religious, slightly but not virulently homophobic, and thinks masturbation is a debilitating habit to be overcome by the power of Christ. I have no idea if his present characteristics were influenced by his self-described molestation.