In this thread, we’ll define a good muslim as one who strives to live by these attributes:
[ul]
[li]Forgiveness and mercy*[/li][li]Peacefulness and promoting peace**[/li][li]Being a good neighbor[/li][li]Good hospitality[/li][li]Valuing all people equally, regardless of gender, race or beliefs (So, no racism, arrogance, being a dick to the “little people”, etc.)[/li][/ul]
If you do personally know one or more people who identify themselves as muslim, how do they measure up against those specs?
These are my arbitrary specs focusing on interaction with society. Feel free to compare the results with those you come up with using your own specs. I certainly don’t claim mine are particularly accurate, balanced or useful.
Also, this polling method makes any trends statistically unreliable so remember to take it with a big grain of salt. With that in mind, this is a simple muslim twist on a GD classic (“how many real/good/true christians do you know?”). I do hope this is not sidetracked into anti-religious vs religious flamefest
Stuff many of you already know:
*Islam’s most fundamental characteristics of God/Allah. All Koranic verses start with “In the name of Allah the most forgiving and most merciful”.
**The way a muslim properly greets someone is by saying “Peace be upon you”, so wishing people peace is a big thing.
I’ve had quite a few Muslims working for me over the years. Engineers, mostly. I don’t have a count, but it was at least 15, maybe 20. I can’t think of any whom I would not call “good”. Other than speaking English with an accent, bringing the odd “ethnic” dish to work at times (not at all unusual in Silicon Valley), they were entirely unremarkable.
Hundreds. But I lived in Beirut for 6 years, and taught hundreds upon hundreds of Arab (mostly Muslim) students. Most of them were good kids, with the occasional asshole–pretty much like in the US. Same goes for my colleagues.
Based on relevant criteria, I know a few good Muslims and damn few good Christians. The percentage of “good” among the people I know is leaning hard towards the Muslims.
The only Muslim I’ve known personally who didn’t fit the above criteria was a black Muslim who floated on the edge of the ( unreformed ) NOI. He didn’t embrace such explicitly blasphemous notions as Elijah Muhammed being a prophet ( and he didn’t dress up like a Farrakhanite ). But he did have a tinge of black supremacism to his faith. If called on it he’d affirm that he didn’t believe “white” people could be truly righteous and no, he didn’t consider Arabs to be “white” ( but European Jews were, interestingly enough ). Otherwise he was unfailingly polite and as far as I know, law-abiding.
But most Muslims I’ve known have been pretty westernized folks - I’ve never lived in a predominantly Muslim country, nor visited one.
I had about 10-15 Muslim students when I taught math at Vanderbilt. They were all polite and hard-working, showed up in class regularly, and never had attitude problems. The only negative characteristic I’d note is that many had an inclination towards cheating.
I’d make this generalization. Far from trying to keep their children separate from American culture, Muslim parents make their kids work overtime to succeed by American standards. Hence the kids try incredibly hard to earn perfect grades, get into a top college or university, and eventually land a prestigious job. To me, this explains their good performance in class, and also their tendency towards cheating.
Same question, basically. If this is just a straight poll, why not put it in IMHO? If there is some sort of point you’re trying to make, please say so.
I work with, and have worked with, a bunch of people from Pakistan and Bangladesh, and lived in southern Thailand where the majority population is Muslim. I’ve also travelled in Dubai, and extensively in Malaysia.
The “kind, generous, respectful” vs “raging asshole” relationship is about the same as here with white British people.
But tons of Dopers (including myself) have, so there is a group with the relevant experience. Although even within that group, there is bias. I was teaching Muslims, but they were well-to-do Muslims. I didn’t interact a whole lot with poor Muslims from the Hezbollah strongholds of southern Beirut (although I did interact with them some–I used to play soccer twice a week across the street from the Shatila camp).
I’ve known probably a dozen Muslims in my life. They were all pretty much normal people, and couldn’t really be described as “good” or “bad” according to your criteria. Haven’t met any that were raging assholes, but I know one who pissed his family off by joining the Peace Corps instead of going to graduate school.
I dunno, small to medium fuckload. I work for a network of Substance Abuse centers and programs, and we have a good amount of muslim employees, in every variant from Indian to Arab to American to Black Muslim. (Do those count? I always considered Black Muslim to be roughly equivalent to Mormon, relatively speaking.) (Note: The black regular muslims I fit under American.)
Most of these are honest to god good people. Some of them are better than that.
(NYC, here. In every borough.)
If it’s “have you known”, I’d say 50-60. About half that number of “not-so-good, but generally OK” types, and maybe a dozen or so outright bastards. But then there was a substantial muslim component to one of the student groups I worked with when at uni.
Nowadays I know maybe 3 Muslims well enough to judge, and they’re all in the “good” category, except for that typical Goth/roleplayer elitism.
As I suggested in the OP, other people can suggest their own criteria and those can be debated for their merits. That and the fact that it has to do at least indirectly with religion.
As for my point, i suppose this is just a somewhat random fishing expedition that may bring me (and possibly others) some insight(s).
I’ve known a couple dozen Muslims over the years, and all of them have been decent, normal people – a little on the high-achieving side of normal. Haven’t known any assholes, or indeed any zealots, but then my sample size is kind of small.
I know lots of muslims. I work with lots of them. One of my wife’s best friends is muslim. In my experience, they’re like anyone else. Some are jerks, but it has nothing to do with their faith. Some are great people, and it has nothing to do with their faith. Pretty much just like Christians. I have spent years of my life in devout, fundamentalist Christian communities, and years of my life surrounded by people who are primarily secular and even athiest. If you asked me to pick the Christians out of a crowd by their personal conduct, I’m not sure I could do it. I know Christians who are obnoxious people, and Christians who are some of the best people I’ve ever met. The same is true with Muslims.
