In the Old Man Logan setting the villains team up, defeat the heroes and divide the country between Magneto, Red Skull, Doom and Abomination.
Given that a large number of Marvel/DC villains are motivated by personal reasons, money, bloodlust and desire for power how many do you think would either retire after the takeover or be forced to retire on threat of death (assuming they aren’t killed outright)?
The villains in charge would have a practical interest in maintaining basic law and order and services in their respective territories which means villains who disrupt the above would have to be dealt with somehow (Carnage, Controller, Thinker, Sauron, Shocker, Arcade, Chemistro etc) whether through death, bribery or recruitment.
but I would think villains, especially comic book ones, by their nature don’t take orders. Each one thinks they are the biggest baddie. They’d have to be forced out.
I’d say the criminal ones are used to fighting the good guys so why would fighting other bad guys be any different? The villains want something and just because Red Skull is boss won’t stop them. Maybe they would work for Red Skull (or whoever) as a boss.
And some villains just want to see the world burn. They won’t be stopped because another villain is in charge.
Any takeover would only last a few months, then Galactus or the Sun-Eater or some such would come along, and we’d see a Villain Die Valiantly To Save His World!
I suggest the novel Hench by Natalie Zina Walschots, which makes the point that the difference between Superheroes and Supervillains pretty much comes down to marketing.
A non-superhero version of the subject is the novel Villains by Necessity which is a similar inversion except in the traditional high-fantasy format. Its a fun read, but won’t consider it great literature.
On to the OP. Okay, first, the answer is probably in the realm of 90% of the Marvel or DC villains would be dead or otherwise perpetually retired. After all, most (and almost all of the “street” level options) villains are petty crooks, who somehow cannot make it work despite powers, gimmicks or equipment.
Bang, gone, none of the truly powerful villains would want them interfering with whatever their vision of the correct world order should be.
Secondly, any intelligent villain who does not wield direct power (Kingpin as a prime example) would be co-opted, or more likely purged as being useful, but a risk to the new power structure. Sure, villains like that wield financial and social power, but in a world of villains ascendant, those are both secondary powers at best.
After that, we’d have the top tier villains in brains and power probably subjugate those below them as their armies in skirmishes against each other. They’d probably be kept on a comparatively short leash, but with plenty of perks as long as it isn’t too disruptive. And the top tiers would segment society / nations so that they aren’t treading on each others toes quite so much.
If you want to see a good version of this (without the abject chaos that Old Man Logan jumped into), read the graphic novel Wanted, which is exactly this premise, and one or two tiny elements of which was adapted into the movie of the same name (which was TERRIBLE).
This is interesting, a scenario where the supervillains take over, how many regular villains would basically turn sides and become “heroes” because they’re just in it for conflict?
I could definitely see the Joker turning “Good” if Batman were to die at anyone except his hands. Like the crossover of Joker/Red Skull where even joker was offended by the very concept of Red Skull.
That one always bugged me. “I’m an American criminal lunatic!” is way off character for the Joker. This is the same guy who signed up to be the UN Ambassador for Not-Really-Iran after he killed Jason Todd. He’s not a patriot in any sense, and that sort of group identification runs counter to the Joker’s “chaos above all” ethos.
He should hate the Red Skull (and Nazis in general) because they’re humorless authoritarian assholes, not because they’re “unAmerican.” And the Red Skull, in reverse, would detest the Joker’s lack of seriousness and unwillingness to do what he’s told.
Joker would never submit to anyone, no matter their goals (although Joker may temporarily align himself with someone if it furthers the Joker’s goals…but that will not last long).
He is in the “wants to see the world burn” camp I think.
Did Marvel ever walk back their whole “Dr. Doom is canonically the best leader for Earth” thing? I remember that being a thing in the 90s and 2000s but pretty sure it’s bad optics now to say a quasi-fascist is the best leader.
Eh, Dr Doom is the best leader for certain values of best. To his citizens, he’s just, reasonably impartial, not personally corrupt, and provides excellent security, economic health, and stable government. Absolute zero true self government of course however, and rather strict limits on organization and freedom of speech.
So, of course, it depends on your values. I’d certainly rather live under Doom in Latveria or a post-villain takeover nation than almost any OTHER supervillain and many superheroes. Few people talk about the disasters and multiple (successful and otherwise) coups certain ‘hero’ governmental leaders have endured, often with massive loss of life and property. Looking at you Namor and Aquaman!
For that matter, Doom is certainly a better leader than several pseudo-democratically elected IRL functional dictators. Given a choice, I’d rather be under Doom than Putin or Orban at this point in their careers as “elected” leaders.
Of course, going back to our alignment discussion, in old school AD&D, Lawful Evil rulers did better than chaotic good, or even Neutral good rulers in terms of bonus they received as a liege.
Now consider that some villains are motivated by a twisted sort of social Darwinism: They wouldn’t even take offense at someone else offing them, because the mere ability to do so would prove that they were worthy. And such a villain might plausibly even encourage the street-level thugs, because a few of them might turn out to be truly great (though would make sure that the street-level thugs were still challenged, so their greatness would have a chance to become manifest).
This, more or less, is the motivation of Lord Recluse, one of the bigger Big Bads in the City of Heroes video game. But then, they kind of needed a villain like that, to justify the existence of vast numbers of player-character villains.
How the heck do Magneto and Red Skull co-exist as leaders?? I feel like Doom would have little use for Red Skull also…
Hate Red Skull, he should have been killed off long ago. Interestingly none of the four listed are American. Throw in Namor or Baron Mordo and you still dont have one.
Asking who the best American supervillain is like asking who is the greatest American band!! Beach Boys? Tom Petty and his band? The Cars??
Most American supervillains are powerless or just heroes gone bad like Dark Phoenix.
