The ones I know are that way, which is why I suspct I know more Black Belts than I’m actually aware of.
I know of an instructor (I can’t really call him a teacher: He’s too AFU) that holds high levels in several different arts, and while he’s technically a Black Belt many times over, I have a very hard time thinking of him as such, because of his attrocious behaviour. He’s one of those that go about showing off his skills, bragging about his levels, and generally making an ass of himself. I once saw him start a fight in a bar! (he got floored by a crusty old trucker armed with a beer mug) I don’t know if a Black Belt can be stripped of his rank, but this guy deserved to be demoted, and maybe defenestrated, too.
First, anything I post is not necessarily true for any other schools but the one I myself attend.
That’s the way it is at my school (Tiger Schulmann’s). There’s plenty of black belts, but not many beyond that. Looking at the black belts, I’m not overly impressed by some of them. It seems anyone will eventually get the black belt just by paying for all the classes. You can fail the black belt test, but I’ve never seen anyone fail more than twice. On average, you can go from no belt to black belt in about 3 years. 350 classes, to be exact, so the times can vary.
I’ve heard from others that when you get your black belt is when the “real training starts”. A lot of people do not go beyond that level. The Joshus (instructors) and Senseis (head instructors) can not even be compared to the Sempais (black belts) in terms of skill. Though some of the Sempais are indeed amazing.
So in short, I think that being a black belt is nothing overly special. It is still an accomplishment, sticking with the martial arts for that long though. There’s just too much of a range of skill in black belts to be sure though. A black belt could be great, or he could be pretty bad. You just never know.
Anyone beyond that level I think it’s safe to assume they know their stuff.
I’ve studied Martial Arts for six years now, will be in it for life
Also, due to the particular art I study, I will never have a black belt (our school uses its own ranking system). However, I can guarantee that I am a far more skilled and knowledgable martial artist than someone in a different art that has earned their black belt ranking in two years. Additionally, I have been to tournaments and seen black belts get their clocks cleaned by red and orange belts. I’ve been a white belt in a school and due to past experience been able to beat their black belts while sparring.
What does this mean? It is all relative. Most arts I would say don’t even use the “black belt” ranking scale, this is peculiar almost completely to Japanese and Korean arts.
I find it interesting that the OP used “Black Belt” as opposed to “black belt” (no caps). There is no such thing as any universally recognized standard for a black belt ranking…none, zilcho, nada. Anyone can drop $10 at a MA supply store and be an instant black belt and go open their own school should they wish. They gould call themselves “Grandmaster” and no one could claim to say otherwise.
Not intending to rant, but I get asked the “are you a BB?” question so often it is silly.
I agree. I used caps to signify the generic idea of an advanced rank, not to imply that there was anything like a single universal standard. I used that term because it is familiar to many people. I tried to make it clear that even within my own art, the actual competence of a Black Belt can vary widely from one locale to another.
So, using the particular ranking systemology in your own discipline, is there a Black Belt equivalent? How many people do you know have this ranking/competency level and how is it measured?
I have a nephew who has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and I was sufficiently impressed by his work to enroll my kid (7 years old). Kid just got his orange belt–that’s the next one after white in this school. Nephew did break boards, but it was never implied that this constituted self-defense; it was merely an exercise to master speed, power, and aim.
I would agree that getting the first degree black belt means that you are really ready to learn something now, having mastered the primary kicks, blocks, etc. All of the instructors in kid’s TKD school are 2d BB or higher, one is 4d BB and a world champ (wow) and another is hoping to test for his 4d BB next year…and that guy is AMAZING. The 2d degree black belts and up are taken very seriously indeed…certainly not a “belt mill: you pay, you play” kind of thing. The lower belts give the kids something to aim for, and a sense of accomplishment, and some body confidence, and some exercise. Do they look like Bruce Lee after a couple of years? Maybe not, but I don’t care. It’s a good thing, and well worth the modest fees.
I’ve seen a number of 1st degree black belts, and they sure know their kicks, but that isn’t by any means considered the end of the line in MA training. More like one belt in a series, leading up to something like 9th degree, I think…now you’re talking Bruce Lee!
My 1st Dan black belt was accompanied by a certificate from the Kukkiwon - the recognized “headquarters school” for TaeKwon Do in Seoul, and I had to fill out a form and send them a passport photo of myself. Maybe Master Han was just a stickler for paperwork…but somewhere in Korea there’s a file with my name on it. I also was given a membership number for the World TaeKwon Do Association and the National TaeKwon Do Association.
Granted, this doesn’t imply any kind of regulatory authority for these organizations, but they’re at least making an attempt at record-keeping, and if somebody wanted to find out bad enough there are organizations you can check someone’s credentials with. At least for TaeKwon Do. If the belt was earned from a school that participates in any of these organizations.
At least, I have enjoyed it thoroughly, although I am disappointed that the individual who inspired it has not posted.
My impression is that everyone who has posted here has nothing but the most sincere interest and intention in communicating experience and personal knowledge, and that there has been not one spurious claim of exalted expertise. I know this proves nothing about how often such inflated claims do surface in message boards, but I am very glad to see that it did not occur here.
More importantly, the variety and detail of the posts have shown me that serious and committed people are investing in quality Martial Arts programs, and this is a Very Good Thing.
I hope the conversation continues, but I know that most threads, alas, wither and fade, the warm light of interest passing on to other blooms, other ideas. And this is only right and natural.
So, before it falls from view completely, I wanted to thank everyone as the OP for making this a wonderful thread, and I look forward to many more.
There are of course sanctioning bodies in the martial arts to try and enforce some kinds of standards.
While there are excellent schools that are not part of the large sanctioning bodies, if you’re a new student and not sure how to find a good school then the safest thing to do would be to find a school affiliated with one of these associations.
