How many "real" Black Belts do you know?

In My Humble Opinion
21

I don’t know what this sudden glut of martial arts topics is about, but I like it!

As for me, it’s funny you should approach this topic the way you did. I’m a white belt in four different fighting systems despite my years of training. I’ve been asked to test up in all of them and I spent my last year of JKD sparring with the apprentice instructors, but even that didn’t prompt me to test.

My theory is that I’ll study martial arts until the day I die and upon my deathbed I’ll still be a white belt. There’s just something symbolically beautiful about it, especially when, as you all indicate you’ve experienced, you’re constantly running into knobs with a double striped black belt after four years of training.

22

I dated a guy for a while last year who was third degree black belt. Don’t know what he was in, but I can tell you that it took him 13 years to get that far, he went through a series of belts. He knew his shit. He was very very good. I saw him break 8 blocks at one time. I was impressed. He’s still in it, working on something else, but he doesn’t have any interest in going up any more degrees.

23

aw yeah baby, yellow stripe as of an hour ago. Just 3 to 20 more years of training and you’ll be dealing with a black belt.
HI and might I mention YAH.

24

Congratulations, Ender! Woo-hoo! Keep working!

bourbonstew, everyone is welcome to join in. In fact, as a non-MAist, your perspective has a particular value. I would like to know how you are able to “spot spurious claims” and if you could perhaps share some examples?

To answer my own question, I know hundreds of legitimate black belts, including both parents and my brothers, and have probably met well over a thousand in my life, training for over thirty years and traveling all over the US and to several countries specifically for judo.

I remain very active in judo, teaching at two different schools with students ranging in age from 5 to 55, training my sons, coaching competitors and referreeing at tournaments, and yet I feel like do only the barest minimum.

In the regional organization (yudanshakai) to which I belong, and where I currently serve on the promotional board, the requirements to achieve a black belt vary according to the kind of student one wishes to be. The quickest path is through competetion, where, if one is very good, very successful, and very, very dedicated, a shodan (1st degree black belt) may be earned in as little as 3 years. Usually, though, it takes quite a bit longer, up to 9 years, and requires a combination of competetive experience, testing, and service in/to the judo community. This service may include such things as helping to run tournaments, work for the organization or help maintain a school.

EJsGirl, I tend to agree with you, but as iampunha has observed, there are exceptions, particularly if one keeps micco’s point in mind, that “a black belt is someone who has demonstrated he’s ready to learn, not someone who has already learned it all.”

My own path to shodan was rather atypical, and I would be happy to share it, if anyone is interested.

25

My choir instructor at the school I presently attend taught [IIRC] Nin J’itsu at a Dojo in Germany. He’s the most amazing person; he still teaches martial arts at the school as more of a mental exercise for the students than a physical expression of ability.

26

Another Shotokan brown belt here. I was actually told that I would probably never get to black due to a lack of mental/spiritual discipline, which was quite true. My techniques were black rated, but that damned attitude problem kept getting in the way. I still consider my belt to be honorary just to get me out of the school.

A lot of my friends at the time were black belts in various disciplines, and I have met a few others here and there. But I know what the OP means. On the internet, you find a lot of black belts who work on Wall Street, are hung like mules, have a condo in Barbados, and are occasionally in the running for a Nobel prize:)

27

My Brother is in the US Special Forces and is at least 3rd-degree black belt. He’s high enough in rank that he can grant them to others anyway.

I’m not sure what that’s in though because he studies Tung-su(?), Judo, and Ninjitsu.

28

I hope that didn’t sound like I’m constantly vigilant with a rigid set of standards. Not the case. I guess I use context and language, verbal and body, to make that determination.

If I hear “yo I’m a blackbelt boyee so you betta watch yo’self” I’m inclined to be suspicious. It’s more something you’d run into in casual meetings, rather than long conversation. If I meet someone and in the course of the conversation it comes up that he/she is a blackbelt I wouldn’t be inclined NOT to believe it unless something else was involved, like an obvious attempt to impress people - self-aggrandizement - without either the body language or any specific knowledge.

I’d be most unconvinced by someone who obviously lacks discipline and or balance. Not to say clumsiness, but a certain familiarity with your body and where it is in space would seem to be a given for anyone who has trained for a length of time and achieved some skill. Usually some added ‘quiet confidence’ but now I’m probably romanticising it a bit.

It just comes down to reading people.

The only time my mental alarm went off on signs of inconsistency and I WASN’T able to at least come up with a judgment for myself was this:

a young boy, maybe 9 or 10, was described as a ‘blackbelt in so and so’ by either his family or a family friend, i.e. someone who might really know. The kid looked kinda frail but did carry himself well, but I still wondered a bit if this was even a possibility - or whether standards in some rec dept. kids program were low enough to give out some ‘feel-good’ belt awards.

In your opinion, is it even a possibility that a kid that young could be a black belt by normal standards, or was it rather what I suspected about his program’s standards ??

Sorry for any incoherancy in my post - it’s late and been a long day, though since I’m at work will not end until morning.

29

Only one that I can recall - I think it was in Shotokan. He was always going to competitions.

30

I know 2 black belts in Tae Kwon Do.

Both had to train vigorously for years to get them. The stories they told of what they had to do were more than Icould ever stand.

31

In Shaolin Kung Fu it only takes you about 3 year to reach black belt. While it may seem that 3 years is’nt enough time, the rank of black belt is’nt worth as much as in other martial arts. In most martial arts, black belt signifies reaching a mastery of the art. In Kung Fu, attaining black belt only means that you have mastered the basics of the art and that the true learning has only begun. Just think of getting a black belt in Kung Fu as finally getting accepted to the college. Anyways, I know planty of black belts in many martial arts. They are all capable and could easily take an untrained opponent.

32

I did a little karate and Tae Kwon Do as a kid, and I remember that I had classes with kids who started studying martial arts as young as age four. I’m certainly no expert, but I think that if a kid started young and trained hard then she or he could be a legitimate black belt in many schools by age 10.

FWIW, the youngest black belt (TKD) I ever knew personally was about 13.

33

Yeah, my college roommate was a “black belt” in TKD, but he admitted that the school was a bit of a belt factory, and that he probably only had reached a brown level. Atleast he knew and admitted it.

34

This is just the place to ask something I’ve wondered a long time.

I’ve been interested in studying a MA if I have the time and money. I’d be more interested in a “You can stop hitting the ground as soon as you stop attacking me” type than a “I will now break all of your ribs and possibly something else” type. I’ve assumed that judo was more along these lines. Is it, and are there other good suggestions to consider?

35

So you want to deter people instead of crippling them? Something you must realize before I continue is that it takes very few years to learn how to cripple someone and very many years to learn how to deter someone.

Exclusively soft styles include: aikido, judo, ninpo, tai chi, and probably more than I’m just not thinking of.

Styles that combine hard and soft are numerous: many styles of karate, many styles of kung-fu, many grappling arts, hapkido, ninjitsu, etc.

Hard styles include boxing, kickboxing, kyokushin karate, san soo kung-fu, Jeet Kune Do, Krav Maga, almost anything with “combat” in the title, no holds barred/pancration/vale tudo, etc. Many hard styles can be used as a soft style, I should point out. A boxer is constantly in danger of being struck with a deadly punch, consequently a boxer is perhaps one of the best people in the world when it comes to not getting punched.

So, since almost any style will teach you not to get hit (and once you know how not to get hit you can devise whatever finish you wish) I would suggest you simply try out schools available to you and stick with the one whose instructor you like the most.

If it’s a question of your training and you want a soft style because you don’t want to get bruised and battered every day, you should know that boxers hit you with their fist and judoka (judo fighters) hit you with the ground. That’s a quote from someone else on the board, and it’s really quite apt. A soft art will have you being thrown around all day while a hard art will have you being hit in the ribs or legs all day.

While I didn’t intend for this post to confuse you, I did intend for this post to give you much to think about. You are probably more confused now than before, so I will reiterate that you should simply find the instructor who appeals to you the most. Once you have that fundamental assistance, you will find the path to what is best for you.

36

i know 5 black belts. but i do taekwon-do so i’m bound to know some.

37

I know a good plenty of black belts. Some of them are crap black belts, “earned” it in a year and a half and I could take as an out of practice 5’2" brown belt. OTOH, I know a ton of really good black belts. Took them 7-10 years to get to that level and have a mastery of the philosophy and morals of the martial arts as well as the kicking and punching. The majority of them (not to brag, but hell, I’ll brag) came from my school. We are taught by a master who, after more than 30 years in his style, is now a 6th degree black belt (master) and a really cool guy.

So, yeah. I know real black belts. But they are far outnumbered by those who think they are black belts, but really aren’t.

38

Well, I’m far from an expert on “most” martial arts, but I have a 1st-Dan black belt in TaeKwon Do that I worked my ass off to earn in 2 1/2 years when I was 18…and there was never any doubt that it meant that I was now considered a beginner. Had a series of injuries before I could test for 2nd-Dan.

TaeKwon Do seems to be the style that most belt factories lean toward, with a close second being the schools that claim to teach Ninjitsu (I’m sure there are legit schools that actually teach Ninja-style techniques, but they’re far outnumbered by the ones that teach a mishmash of other styles mostly picked up from Sho Kosugi movies.) I’m not sure why this is, but most reputable schools will allow a new student to watch a session or two to decide if the level of discipline and instruction style are acceptable to the prospective student.

As far as kids studying, I started when I was a teenager, and there were kids as young as 6 in the school. The youngest one I ever saw reach an “advanced” rank was about 12 - most lost interest after a few months, but usually you could see a difference in the kids before they left - a little more self-control, maybe a little more confidence. The youngest black belt I knew was 16, and he definitely earned it. For the record, my black belt test involved not only technique (Katas, board breaking, etc…) but also free sparring against multiple, higher-ranking opponents, a question-and-answer session and a 2000-word written essay on the history of TaeKwon Do. They took it pretty seriously.

Perhaps a decent way to spot the crummy TaeKwon Do schools (or poser black belts) is to ask what style of TaeKwon Do they train in. If the answer is along the lines of “I just told you, TaeKwon Do!” then they’re full of shit. If the answer is along the lines of “Hmmm, I’ll have to ask my instructor” or “My school teachis Mudokwan, it’s an older style…” then they might be for real.

39

Depends on the school and sensei much more than the style. Of course, some styles are a lot more macho, but seriously, check out any school that attracts you, watch a couple of sessions, talk to some of the students and the sensei, then you’ll have a decent idea if it looks like the right school for you.

40

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lamia *
**

I started training when I was 5 and got my blackbelt at age 10… and I had to work for it. It was not given to me. Because I had to work for it, I had a very deep appreciation for what I did to earn it. As a result I was of the same opinion as bourbonstew:

So I would never really bring up the fact that I had a black belt. It is something that is very personal to me. I figured out at 10 that I really didn’t need to brag about it. Even today, I don’t generally mention it unless it comes up in conversation.