Ninjitsu - Any Ninja here?

In My Humble Opinion
1

There is a (rather seedy, I must admit) Ninjitsu school in my city, and I’ve been debating whether or not to join it for about a month now. I’ve gone and seen a lesson, and from what I saw it might be interesting - although it seemed the majority of the people there that day were black belts.

Anyway, I was wondering if any of you have had experience with this art and could advise me on its merits, in all areas (workout, discipline benifits, fighting capability etc.).

Also, the teacher is a white man who says he went to Japan and was trained there (as far as I remember, anyway) - something that I can’t easily verify.

2

Ooooh. Belt inflation. I bet some folks inot martial arts could say a thing or two about that.

My SNORT! meter just went off.

This sure sounds like loada bull designed to grab the comic book crowd.

3

Of course you should! Ninjas have the REAL ULTIMATE POWER!!!1

Yes, I know it’s old, but come on, someone was going to post it anyway

4

Haha, I was waiting for that. And I think it’s a sign of my cautiousness that I didn’t just jump into it.

5

Go, then go compare to a Brazilian Ju-Juitsu school. If none of that around, find some Muai Thai KickBoxing in your area.

Generally, it is impossible for us over the internet to judge a club. Google for “what to look for in a martial arts school” or similar for some lists of what to look out for. You will have to go again yourself and watch, with a greater idea of what you’re looking for.

Ask the head instructor about fees. Avoid things that tie you down for too long - I would never join a school that expects me to pay a yearly fee. Paying monthly is normal, although I do not know the sort of price range you should be looking for in the US.

If he tells you “join my school and you’re guaranteed a black belt in two years” don’t walk out the door - run. These places are known as “Mcdojo’s” and should be avoided at all cost.

(Thats a fairly impartial comment, subjectivly - what you tell me about the place makes it sound like a load of rubbish. Does it have a website so I can judge it further?)

**I’ve not spell checked this reply, or proof read it. Am tired and cannot be bothered. Ignore mistakes.

6

Ask and ye shall recieve. Here is his website. His name is Brad Hutchinson, and apparently what I said was a little untrue. You can find the history of his training if you click “Sensei” and pictures of the dojo under “Dojo.”

7

As a practitioner of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, which does include some ninja ryu in its lineage, I would say it is not impossible to find schools where tha name ninjutsu is used that are not frauds. That said there are lots of bad schools and teachers claiming to teach Ninjutsu. Talk to the instructor at the school, ask him who he trained with in Japan, ask him how long he has been training and what other martial arts he knows. Ask him how long on average it takes to get to black belt.
If it takes <4years to get to Black Belt, then look elsewhere.
Look up the name of the Japanese instructor on the internet, see if the instructor seems legit.
Don’t pay out much monet for training, membership expenses… if they ask for lots of money they are probably not legit.

8

OK from your link, he is associated to the Bujinkan which is a good sign. Ignore the 10th Dan status, Dr. Hatsumi has an annoying habbit of giving out grades higher than 5th for political reasons. Still he should be at least as skilled as any 4th Dan in any other martial art in experience. Steven Hayes is a little susspect as a teacher, having moved away from Dr Hatsumi’s teaching, and having alligned himself with certain survivalist groups. But it would be strange for any senior practitioner in the Americas to have not studied with Hayes at some time or other. Do try out this Dojo, you should find nothing to link it to cinema ideas of Ninjas, but you should find a relaxed and powerful martial art, that can be very rewarding physically and mentaly.

9

Interesting, I looked up his two Japanese teachers, and both of them train groups of people, and they are together (something like master and pupil, but not quite), and Brad Hutchinson shows up on a nation-wide list of “Bukinkan Black Belts.” I’ll call him and find out some more information.

Thank you all for your help.

10

Oh, and I know I really shouldn’t be looking for this as any kind of a major reason in a martial art, Bippy, but is it a good art to learn to fight?

11

I susspect it is as good as any martial art in learning to fight.
ie. you learn how to avoid being hit, you learn how to hit without damaging yourself. You learn that fighting is darned difficult and dangerous, and you learn therefor to avoid fighting if at all possible.
One very good thing about the Bujinkan is that it teaches weapon usage allong with unarmed fighting techniques, and it teaches them in a way that is applicable to using everyday objects as weapons. I might have a lot of difficulty against a skilled boxer, but if I had access to a sturdy stick I could give even a pro boxer a good run for his money. I have found that the people I have trained with in the Bujinkan are very sensible and dedicated. The Ninjutsu word attracts some idiots (in UK Bujinkan clubs hardly ever mention the link to Ninjutsu) but they soon leave when they realise they won’t be learning how to become invisible etc.
I have found the learning to fall safely as taught within Bujinkan is far better than as taught within Judo (which I have also learnt) and has saved me from injury on several occasions. The good understanding of distances and avoiding being hit is very useful as is the understanding of how to control a potentially dangerous situation and being aware of possibilities when they present themselves.

12

Judan?!? 10th degree black belt? Studying since the mid 80’s? Man talk about belt inflation! In the school my wife studied under there was an entire chain of dojos spanning two or three states under a sixth degree belt and he was pretty freaking amazing. He had been a black belt for some time when this guy started taking lessons. There was a 23-24 year old son of her Sensei(who was himself only 4th degree) who had been studying since he was about seven or eight(so that’s between 15-17 years) who was only third degree. Typically the post-black belt progression is extremely difficult. In talking with her sensei getting a black belt was like reaching the top of a mountain only to discover it was really just a foothill and Everest awaited you.

Some of the best martial artists in the world are 6-7-8th degree and 9th and 10th are almost unheard of in traditional schools. Maybe the school this sensei is from uses a different scale, but 10th dan is pretty much godlike in most systems. Heck, Frank Dux is a 9th dan.

Enjoy,
Steven

On Preview: I see Bippy has weighed in with the info that dan rankings in the Bujinkan school aren’t as strict as in some schools.

Honestly, Speaker, if you just want to learn how to fight, I’d suggest kickboxing. Much more practical, if not as elegant.

13

I’ve heard that (from rather unreliable sources, but I follow up on anything) something like… Thai Kickboxing (I think) is a good art to learn to fight. Is there any truth in that?

14

Mtgman yeah, in Bujinkan anything past 5th Dan is honoury, and 10th Dan tends to be given to Hatsumi’s favourite in each country. He also gives high dans to westerners because he often feels his Japoanese students aren’t as dedicated as they should be, so its a way to make them envious and try harder.

I do disagree about the kickboxing being much more practical. In limited space a kick boxer is going to be in trouble against a grapler, and with a three foot walking stick it would be fairly easy to break any limb a kick boxer sends in your direction.

15

Sorry, I should have added that much of the reasons I gave for high grades are hearsay from within the Bujinkan, I am no authority on what Dr.Hatsumi is thinking or feeling.

16

Oh, look, another training facility in the city!

http://www.bujinkanada.com

The highest ranking instructor there is 4th Dan, and at the very least I like the look of their website better. :slight_smile:

17

They also look good, I read the faq on the hayabusa site.

Blooming-heck, I’ve been away from the Bujinkan training for about three years, since then Hatsumi has added another 5 dans 11-15.

I have trained at three weekend seminars run directly by Dr. Hatsumi when he came to England, he is a fantastically skillful martial artist. But he doesn’t half screw with the Dan grade system.

I susspect (and hope) that his reason for this is because the dan grade system is very much a modern addition to the martial arts, and of no real importance, and he is doing this is dissdain of people considering grading to be the measure of a martial artist, or the reason to study a martial art. Non the less, I know it annoys some of his most senior practitioners. Most of the senior instructors that I know have studied several other martial arts with more standard grading schemes, gainig of rediculously high dan grades by such people looks silly compared to their other skills.

18

Hmm, the only other martial arts I’d consider (I don’t really like Taekwon Do) in my city are karate or “kung fu” (nice and vague).

We also have no weapons (e.g. kendo) schools, so it really seems as though Bujinkan is the one where I can learn an interesting martial art with practical applications.

19

Actually, you might want to check into each school regarding the weapons issue. You’d never guess from seeing the name of the school my wife trained under that they actually had weapons training all through the lower belts. In the two and a half years she trained with them she learned nunchuku, sai(took first place in a multi-state and multi-school tournament with a sai kata), and was about to start with a bo. The school also taught kama, rattan sticks and a couple other weapons I can’t recall at the moment. Open hand stuff for the first couple of belts, then sai, then nunchuku. I got to see a black belt test one time and it was pretty intense. They had to correctly perform dozens of katas including weapons katas. Took about three hours for that one test and there was a panel of instructors from several schools who were observing and grading them. Average time to black belt in the school was probably 5-7 years.

Bippy, since kickboxing is a much less formal fighting style than most Asian martial arts I’d guess that mileage varies widely. In a couple tournaments I’ve seen the kickboxers were extremely good at grappling and in fact would often be the grapplers themselves if facing off against an opponent from a style like Tae-kwon-do which works best at a distance. Throw weapons into the mix and most unarmed fighting styles are at a severe disadvantage.

Enjoy,
Steven

20

Little to no knowledge of Ninjitsu here, but plenty of knowledge in looking at MA schools. A couple points I think are important:

*See if you can get a schedule of classes (when they’re held). Stop by, unannounced, and watch a few classes (more than one.) One class, especially if it’s mostly black belts, will not give you the feel of the school. Any school that has a problem with a potential student dropping by unannounced is not someplace you will want to train.

*Talk to the head instructor. Also talk to students: about the instructors, about how classes are run, how often they train, how long it took them to get their current rank, how competitive the school is, how much fun vs. work it is, etc.

*Don’t sign a contract, at least not at first. Be very, very cautious around contracts. Many schools (a certain chain of karate dojos in the NJ/PA/NY area comes to mind) will give you a free intro lesson, and then try to corral you into signing a year (or more!) contract. Don’t. Give it a try first, at least a few months, before signing a contract like that.

*Regarding safety: Observe. Are the floors matted, sparring matches carefully supervised, plenty of space given when working out with weapons? Also - what’s the warm-up/cool-down like? Stretching out is one of the most important parts of a martial arts workout.

*Ask about cost, not just the basic tuition. Do you get a free uniform? High-end MA uniforms can be pricey. Need to buy your own weapons? Are there extra fees for belt testings? If you want to compete, you may need to join an official league or something (No clue if this applies to ninjitsu or not, I know TKD has 3 main leagues in the US).

*Nitpick with what Mtgman said about his wife’s school: length of black belt exam doesn’t matter. How intensely students are examined matters, and how much talent they can demonstrate. My black belt test took about an hour and an half. The only time I stopped moving during said 1.5 hours was to put on my sparring gear and then take it off - it was continuous. Don’t use that as a judge of the quality of a school.

Most importantly, have fun. If you don’t feel comfortable in the school, it’s not a good fit. You should naturally feel relaxed and interested.

Also - with regards to it being seedy - some of the best MA schools don’t have big flashy dojangs and whatnot. Example: one of the best TKD schools in the nation (well, best at producing tournament winners) started out in a garage in Texas. Appearances matter very little.