The one I’m now considering works outdoors, and in the winter has a rather mobile location. It’s the same as this seedy place, and I’ve actually had the foresight to ask about many of the things you’ve suggested. Of course, I’ve yet to watch a class, but that might be something fun to do on a bikeride (the outdoor classes are right near my house).
You’re in Saskatoon?
White Wolf Martial Arts not in above link.
Kickboxing, Ninjitsu, and Tae Kwon Do links.
Kendo, Aikido, etc. links.
An ass load of schools here, including a tactical combat school (always suspicious of these, but if you find a good one – krav maga, kun tao, jeet kune do – you’ll be a dangerous mofo. Also has a submission fighting school. (Don’t forget to click on the second page.)
The Saskatoon School of Kung Fu (found in a few of the above links) links to a lot of Filipino stick fighting schools. If the Sask school teaches Filipino stick or knife fighting as a major portion of the cirriculum, I would highly recommend that you check it out.
In the interest of kicking as much ass as possible, I’d recommend either boxing/kickboxing, wrestling (learn how to punch or elbow once you’ve got the guy down – cross train in boxing or do it on your own time), or submission fighting. They’re the only fighting systems above that have full-out sparring as the core of their training. You have no idea how invaluable this is and how much more dangerous this makes their students than students of schools who approach sparring in a lighter manner.
If you’re looking for fitness, spirituality, etc. then just pick a school who’s instructor gives you a tingly vibe.
whistles
*Here, ninja, ninja, ninja, ninja…
I have snausages for you.*
My problem is that I do not want to do submission fighting… for some reason the thought of trying to wrestle anyone sounds really dangerous to me, because I’m a very, very weak person, and very light to boot - not good for trying to take someone down.
I’ll look into the Pilipino stick/knife fighting as well.
Before you do anything else, you should decide what you want out of all this. From your previous posts, I get the impression that your main objective is to know how to fight off attackers.
In that case, some things to consider:
In the stress of a fight, any complicated moves you learn are going to go right out the window. Stay with simple stuff that you can do even when you’re in an utter panic.
Same goes for moves that you have to be in top shape to perform… what will you do when you’re NOT in top shape?
Train with the assumption that a real-life attack will be worse than you can imagine: you’ll be tired, distracted, outnumbered, standing on uneven rain-slick ground, your enemies will all be stronger, crazier, and better-armed than you, and you’ll have someone with you that you have to protect.
Attackers do NOT wait until you’re ready!
Never fight empty-handed… bad guys don’t! If you don’t understand commonly-encountered weapons (guns, knives, etc.), you don’t know how to fight. If you don’t know how to use everyday objects as weapons, you don’t know how to fight.
Offense wins fights, NOT defense! Concentrate on developing your ability to take an enemy out of action quickly, so he can’t hit you. Remember that if you take too long with one guy, another will likely stab you in the back.
Hit, don’t wrestle! If you have time for a hold, you have time for three chops to the throat and a knee to the groin. Which do you think will work better on that 250-pound thug?
Fighting is conceptually very simple… it’s hard to DO, not hard to understand!
Vlad, no offense, but your post is silly. If he wants to survive on the streets, he should practise sprinting and awareness. It’s only in the instance that he has to protect someone else that fighting comes into play.
I somewhat agree on the effectiveness of crippling attacks. Unless you find a school that practises crippling attacks as the focus of their cirriculum, as I was lucky enough to do with Sifu Brad Murphy, you should disregard most of them. Groin strikes are about the only thing that you can count on in an adrenalin charged situation because it doesn’t take a lot of precision. Every school I’ve been to since Brad Murphy has taught crippling attacks from eye gouges to pressure point attacks, but they were practised so infrequently that they would be totally forgotten in a life or death fight. And I don’t slight these schools for training these techniques once or twice a month: they’re dangerous. I was just lucky enough to find an instructor in Brad Murphy who wouldn’t teach a beginner anything until they had picked up eye gouging, hair pulling, biting, and testicle ripping reflexively. And for the rest of your time at his school, regardless of your rank, you would practice them for an hour’s class once a week.
The value of boxing/wrestling/submission grappling is just that they all have dangerous moves that are trained daily, not a few times every month.
As for the original post, if streetfighting is a real concern, take up something like boxing that stresses footwork, then read books by Mark Young or Peyton Quinn. Best street-survival writers in the world, in my opinion.
Generally in an adrenalin fulled situation, attacks to the groin are not that effective. Though I have no specific cite (It would be rather difficult to find volunteers for the test), anecdotal evidence seems to show that attacking the groin of someone who has been drinking, and who is also going through an adrenalin rush will have no more immediate effect than a hard punch to the chest. They might be pissing blood in the morning, but that won’t help you that night.
The guys at .rma seem to agree - go argue with gichoke if you want, i voulenteer to brush up the pieces. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.martial-arts
(A lot of spam there right now, use the google search to look for any topics you want, and I recommend joining the group via newsreader)
However, this is away from the OP.
And so it this - Martial arts are just a multiplier. They give you an incresed percentage chance in a fight. As does being heavier/stronger. The largest mulitplier has to be experience, IMHO. Most traditional schools DO NOT OFFER THIS. If you want to fight, you MUST spar. Hard and constantly.
Practicing throwing or hitting unresisting opponents is not enough. It will NOT stick in your head in a real fight, nor will the reflexes you learn (stopping your punch an inch away from your partner for example) help you.
Arts such as ninjitsu and aikido - whilst being excellent arts in their own arts (when taught correctly) will not teach you to fight, you need YEARS of practice for the movements/positions to become reflex (at least two years with aikido, I would say). Even then these arts have problems dealing with uncommited attacks. (A jab for instance is uncommited - no body weight behind it)
To learn to fight quickly, western boxing or muai thai kickboxing. Western boxing only offers four or so techniques, (jab, cross, uppercut and hook) so you become familiar with them quickly. As you are learning to take punches (not avoid - take and absorb) you will last longer in a fight, and are far less likely to ‘freeze’ if hit. Freezeing could be fatal.
Finally, it is true that some of the softer arts such as ninjitusu have (only claim to have, afaik) “masters” who are indeed killing machines. I do not know if this it true - if it is i’m interested as to why they aren’t making millions from Pride or UFC. However, assuming there are masters, they are not going a school two/three times a week for an hour. It is their LIFE. If you cannot dedicate several hours a day to learning this art, do not expect to even come close to their ability for several years.
Whilst this is also true of boxing, you will at least much sooner be able to defend yourself from attacks on the street.
(same disclaimer as the last post - this is far too long to read over.)
Last month’s issue of Black Belt, Speaker of the Dead, holds a great article. If you can find it easily, get it. Maybe a martial arts supply store.
The article focused on how to see past crap in an instructor’s cirriculum. The two points that struck me as most practical were:
- If he can pull it off on a stranger, not a student.
- If he can pull it off at high speed, not demo speed.
Now obviously you can’t go and throw a high speed punch at every instructor you meet, but try to apply these principles while watching him in a class.
One point reguarding size and strength with respect to Bujinkan and Aikido (and some Jujitsu styles) is that the grapelling is often based arround very strong leverage, and attacking your opponents weakpoints. As such physical strength is not as great an advantage as it would be in wrestling. One of my instructors was probably little over half my weight (and I am built, not overweight) and yet I would never have a chance against him in grapelling situations.
Okay, I have several goals in my training.
Yes, I do want to be able to survive a street fight, and that is probably my top priority.
I also want it to be something that doesn’t invovle wrestling. That is, I want to be able to fight, not grapple.
If it’s foreign, that’s a plus (even a European-based style is foreign) 
Speaker for the Dead you said it should be foreign. What are the native Canadian martial arts that you would like to avoid? 
Surviving a street fight? What sort of fights do you think might involve you?
In UK you only really have to contend with drunk unarmed individuals or small groups, if you avoid dangerous areas are football games. Such risks can be avoided with speed and awareness. No martial arts are necessary.
In silicon valley, there is far less drunkness, so the risk is probably from car jackers or muggers, such people may well be carying guns. No martial artist can dodge a bullet.
In both these places martial arts is of little value in surviving a street fight.
So Bippy, why did you learn a martial art then.
Glad you asked, I wanted to prove to myself that I could learn compex physical skills, I wanted to be able to defend friends, or anyone really, if they became picked uppon by some drunk in a bar. Also I wanted the option to smash a biggot in the face if they offended me, and to know I could back up such action effectively if they or their friends decided to continue the fight.
Really… it’s more peace of mind than anything, in the same idea you have. Also, I’ve been threatened twice in school, and while I’ve stood up to the people both times, it’d be nice to know that I could hold my own if they ever decided to carry throught.
And for this case, I consider American (boxing) to be local 
Thai boxing will get you able to defend yourself in the shortest amount of time, if you refuse to do western boxing. Avoid “normal” kickboxing, as that is often (not always) just a watered down of karate. And most karate schools are pretty watered down nowadays anyways. (Wow, what a gramatical construct!)
I don’t like grapleing, however I know the basic clinch/guard/halfguard/sprawl, as 99% of serious fighters agree you need these skills - at least against a larger opponent who is likely to charge into you. Oooh, and I can arm bar too.
Thai boxing has a small amount of grapleing, but its stand-up clinch, where you basically control their head and slam your knees into it. No rolling on the floor till your clothes get dirty!
Plus, few people will want to escalate a confrontation with you once they’ve seen you slamming your knees into their mates head if he attacks you.
Erm, what else? If you take up ninjitsu/aikido, you’ll be well out of school before you’re good enough to beat people with any certainty, especially if they’re in better shape than you, as those arts do not particually build muscle mass.
Western/thai should have you significantly improved within a few months. Then you’ll platau, and further improvements will come slowly, but regularly.
Good luck.
Um, you might want to watch some boxing, thai boxing, kick boxing, etc. matches. Almost invariably, they end up in a clinch. Since you are admittedly small & weak, and since you don’t know how to grapple, you will be completely unequipped to deal with a larger, aggressive thug who gets his hands on you. At that point, you might as well never bothered to take any martial arts at all.
If you’re really concerned about going to the ground, take judo. Judo tends to concentrate on stand-up throws, since in a match the ground fighting is broken up very quickly by the ref. You will learn how to fight on the ground–pins, chokes, and elbow locks, the latter two being very effective at dissuading a person from hurting you.
Throws, as I understand them, can be very effective. Judo throws are not like wrestling take-downs; they are considerably less gentle. And a small person can concentrate on practicing throws that will be effective against a larger opponent.
Also of note is that you will be able to practice judo with full force against a resisting opponent. You don’t have to worry about wondering if you’ll be able to put what you know to work for real, because you’ll have already done that. Plus, most people don’t know the slightest thing about throws, which will make you that much more effective.
You could add a striking style by going an extra day a week, or finding a dojo that offers more than one style (e.g. my dojo does bjj & tae kwon do). But if you get a black belt in ninjitsu and then find yourself fighting a farm boy who wrestled for four years in highschool, then you may be in for a nasty suprise.
Okay, sorry, I guess my point was poorly made.
I used the words “grapple” and “wrestle” interchangably. If I could find a striking style with some form of stand-up grappling, that would be great. What I don’t want is to get into a wrestling art, because my experience (even with training) is that I can’t wrestle worth a penny.
I agree with Crivens that your fastes route to being able to defend yourself is Boxing (a Greek sport, updated in France and UK) or Mui Thai (Thai kick boxing), which both include lots of competitive padded fighting. These will get you toughened against blows, and teach you how to hit and move effectively.
My reason for not taking these arts myself was that part of the reason to learn martial arts for me was to avoid getting hurt unnecessarily. Both these arts seem very painful to learn. (OK I am being a bit of a wimp).
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- I bought a book named “Secrets of the Ninja” when I was in eight grade, does that count? It cost like thirty dollars, that was quite a chunk of change back then… Half the book was on meditating, and much of the other half was about how to use the ninja-sword to do stuff, like “how to climb a wall”, which involved standing the sword up leaning against the wall, and then standing on the finger-guard of the sword, and then pull it up by a secret ninja cord afterwards. Or the secret to “how to hang in trees” was, spend lots of time hanging in trees, until you can do it for a long time without getting so tired. Or my favorite, “hiding behind nothing”, which was standing still in a shadowy area of a porch. — The guy who wrote it looked kind of like a menacing Kenny Loggins. Lots of the photos showed some mysterious masked “ninja” demonstrating these things, who looked about 5’ 6" and weight about 75 lbs. I think when I was in eight grade I was already several inches and a few dozen pounds beyond that, so overall it turned out to be not that useful. And I saw a Samourai costume at the art museum I knew wouldn’t fit into either, so I just kinda resigned myself to being potentially-great Sumo material. I dunno what happened to the book, I think I gave it away to someone else who wanted to be a ninja.
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- I bought a book named “Secrets of the Ninja” when I was in eight grade, does that count? It cost like thirty dollars, that was quite a chunk of change back then… Half the book was on meditating, and much of the other half was about how to use the ninja-sword to do stuff, like “how to climb a wall”, which involved standing the sword up leaning against the wall, and then standing on the finger-guard of the sword, and then pull it up by a secret ninja cord afterwards. Or the secret to “how to hang in trees” was, spend lots of time hanging in trees, until you can do it for a long time without getting so tired. Or my favorite, “hiding behind nothing”, which was standing still in a shadowy area of a porch. — The guy who wrote it looked kind of like a menacing Kenny Loggins. Lots of the photos showed some mysterious masked “ninja” demonstrating these things, who looked about 5’ 6" and weight about 75 lbs. I think when I was in eight grade I was already several inches and a few dozen pounds beyond that, so overall it turned out to be not that useful. And I saw a Samourai costume at the art museum I knew wouldn’t fit into either, so I just kinda resigned myself to being potentially-great Sumo material. I dunno what happened to the book, I think I gave it away to someone else who wanted to be a ninja.
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In this first link the OP posted, they have 3 or 4 vidclips. In each of them, the participants start on their knees, and advance towards each other in a very low stride with their knees greatly bent. While I certainly have taken a step or two like that in a double leg takedown for ex., it looked a little odd to me in these applications.
Is this - uh - footwork common of ninjutsu? That aspect - at least - did not seem to reflect a realistic, practical style for self defense. And this old man’s knees would quickly object!
Can’t judge everything by a website, but this site certainly does not indicate any/much “live” training. He only has 4 vids on the site and, personally, I would not want to spend much if any time working on any the exchanges shown. My personal prejudice is against schools’styles that emphasize set progressions/relationships.
My personal standard plug is for western boxing first, then kickboxing/muay thai, some grappling of your choice, and FMA for weapons. YMMV.
Enjoy your search.
I’ve been doing karate and FMA for almost 10 years now. I started because I wanted a physical activity that also stimulated the mind and gave me self-defense skills. I’ve had great teachers and great classmates, and I really feel that the journey has changed my life.
That said, I think that the style you choose is less important than how good your teacher is, and how well you work for and with him or her. There are many paths up the mountain, but it helps if you have a good guide. I’d recommend you talk to a few instructors, watch their classes, and go with your gut.
The warnings about schools that have contracts or guarantee a black belt in just a few years (or guarantee a black belt, period) are spot on, though. I’d also be wary against any teacher that says his or her art is the best or the only way. In my experience the best teachers recognize the validity of other arts.
I suggest you look into the Israeli style called krav maga.
It is an explosive style – it concentrates on quickness beyond reflex speed. Size and strength don’t matter, only how fast you can move.
It is designed for street combat of the more brutal sort, including dealing with attackers wielding knives and handguns. As such, it has no traditional rules, only “get out alive and unharmed.”
I don’t think it’s a grappling style, I think it’s more of a hitting style.
It’s a very intense workout, and will help you develop the physical fitness you need to use it effectively.
And it’s foreign. ;j
I would expect look!ninjas will show up in this thread sooner or later.