At last, a thread tailor-made for Aldebaran’s, er, singular style, and he’s nowhere to be found…
I see. You just don’t understand. Fair enough.
Stick monkey was contrasting the different issues that various people care about. For example, farm subsidies are not kept in place by city folk - regardless of economic status, but by representatives of country folk - regardless of economic status. That’s just one issue where there is a sharp divide between urban and rural opinions on an issue. Gun control is another. Issues concerning national parks and grazing rights.
When he contrasted “big city folk” with country folk, he was talking about poor urban people. And middle class. And rich. They tend to share opinions on several issues that contrast with rural areas - even rich country folk.
The wealthy and the poor are not homogenous blobs that share values across environments.
Hate? Mee no hate Ameerica. Me come to live in Ameeerica on big aero plane many yers aago. Me luv Ameeerica. Big pizza in Ameeerica. But mee no like Twinkies. Twinkies no goood. But meatloaf, very, very tasty. And Coca Cola. Ahhh, Coca Cola! Coca Cola very very gooood. Ah yes, big pizza and Coca Cola. Ahhh, wonderful Ameeeeeeerica!
What, no one said “With the fiery passion of a thousand white-hot suns” yet?
Then I’m not gonna.
I hate the USA because people mostly buy trucks and SUVs, don’t drive manuals, don’t follow proper lane discipline, install televisions in their vehicles, and generally don’t pay attention to their driving. By this standard, the only place I could live is Germany.
There are a few things that I love about the USA, like the people, the opportunities, the natural beauty, the mostly violence free political process, the willingness of many of the rich to donate to the poor (the other ones should burn in hell, I digress), the oceans, mountains exhibiting a great deal of purple majesty, earth tone waves of grain, national parks, state parks, local parks, football, hamburgers, Panoz, Dodge, and Saleen. Hollywood is a mixed blessing but I’ll take it. I could go on for a few pages, but you get the drift.
If the worst thing the imperialist empire of America does is knock over Saddam, Uday, and Qusay–I can live with that. If Iran goes democratic with our help, or Bush has to* fight KJI, I’ll lose no sleep over national sovereignty–the casualties will keep me awake for weeks though. I’d already have a batallion or so in Liberia also. I guess I’m one of the nutty bird of prey types.
Just taking a stab at the ambiguous OP with the above paragraph, assuming that those are some of the reasons people hate the US.
*Not some stupid pretext. More like the North Koreans coming accross the border, however likely or unlikely that is.
I don’t hate anyone. I’ve done humanitarian work in Europe, Haiti and most recently Mexico. I do not say this to brag at all. I, like the vast majority of Americans, are concerned for the well being of everyone. And I honestly think our present administration is as well. I know that much of what they’ve done has been controversial and I don’t agree with all of it. But come on, we’re doing our best. The reason for my OP was out of the frustration I felt. The people that we so often help are the ones who so often are the first to turn on us and it’s disheartening. (I am not trying to generalize) I meant no ill will but I’m getting sick of all this complaining. I mean, one week the Iraqi’s are praising us and embracing us and the next week they’re telling us to get out. If we left now all hell’d break loose.
I met a Liberian guy a few weeks ago and we’ve had the chance to hang out a little. His whole family is still in Liberia in the middle of the fighting. I truly hope the US and the UN will work together for the people of Liberia. But how soon will it turn from “Thank you” to “Go home. You suck.”?
Hate the US ? Why on earth would ANYONE hate the US?
http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13209857
ummm… yeahh…, your last post does help in explaining your motive for starting this thread. And if this was what you meant with the OP, I’m sorry to say that you worded it rather badly.
My WAG as to the reactions you mentioned is, that you are likely only getting a selection of the actual feelings of the population. (and note: reactions to the U.S.A. differ vastly in time, place, and section of the population you speak to. The rest of the world is as diverse as the U.S.A. is.)
When U.S. presence is new, people are hopeful, and you may possible only hear from people who are grateful.
After a while, the grateful people have gotten used to it and will not repeat their remarks. Meanwhile, the hopefuls may have gotten disillusioned that things are not changing as rapidly as they (unrealistically) thought. Hence some of them may start blaming the U.S.A. for everything. Furthermore, people who didn’t like the U.S.A. anyway may feel free to voice their dissent as well.
And finally, while people may be glad for coming to their aid, after a while they will prefer to have their own government. You’re grateful for the firemen, but you won’t invite them to dinner.
I’m not saying these reactions are good; they may be wrong, uninformed, untimely. I’m just trying to comprehend what’s going on. I certainly hope you won’t let yourself be discouraged from continuing your humanitarian work (if you’re still doing that).
Well Grey, it seems like I’m playing after all. 
ummm… yeahh… hating the USA was in fashion for a while. All the USA bashers are silently crawling back in their hidey holes. Just some out of date geeks are still at it.
Don’t worry. It’s only temporary.
ummm… yeahh… the Liberian and Iraq situations are hardly comparable. The Liberians are crying out for intervention from the US, and are about to get it. I fully support US actions in this instance, and am ashamed that the UN can’t come up with anything better.
Iraq? Yes, there was a strong humanitarian case for regime change (as there is in dozens of countries currently). If it had been made, I would have been supportive. But it wasn’t made. Instead, the whole of the rest of the world - except the UK, Spain and Australia - was marginalized and lied to to force through an unpopular war for the wrong reasons. That is one of the many things I find utterly objectionable about your current regime.
I have no problem whatsoever with your country or people, just your government.
Hating the US is futile and idiotic.
Much like an American who “hates” the French, it’s pathetic and a frightful show of ignorance.
Uh, YOU don’t understand.
Bullshit. Bush and Gore did not have any major clashes on farm subsidies; it simply wasn’t a dividing issue between the two.
Yeah, nobody in cities owns a gun.:rolleyes:
Yeah, I think they spent a good 45 minutes talking about grazing rights in the presidential debate.
Neither are city dwellers and country dwellers homogenous blobs, so what’s your point? You know perfectly well that stick monkey was insinuating that he thought the electoral college allowed “Joe Average Guy” to get Bush elected. My point is that Bush is NOT the champion of “Joe Average Guy”.
So if you don’t lose sleep over sovereignty, I suppose it won’t bother you if the USA gets attacked by another country?
Of course not. At least not publicly. It would be a moot point anyway since ending farm subsidies would never make it past the Senate.
Oooooh. Rolleyes. Must be a real crushing argument. Or not.
Where are the largest gun control areas? Big cities. Most big cities have somewhat stricter gun control laws than the surrounding rural areas. And states that are more rural have gun control laws that are more lax. Hence, it is rural areas that tend to be the bastions of liberal (in the classical sense) gun laws.
**
Probably not, but it crops up more in state matters. And again, limiting grazing rights and other things probably wouldn’t make it past the Senate. I just listed it off the top of my head of issues where there is a divide. There are several others.
**
Of course they aren’t, but rural people tend to have more homogenous attitudes than when compared with urban dwellers. I don’t think that stick monkey insinuated that Bush was the champion of Joe Average. Joe Average lives in the city. But if you have a system that disproportionately favors rural areas in terms of how much representation they have, and one guy’s platform is more sympathetic to rural sensibilities then that one has an advantage. Which is what stick monkey was saying.
Don’t be so paranoid.
Of course, you’d agree, that given that the Unites States makes up around 300 000 000 of the world’s population of 6 000 000 000 that the world is considerably more diverse than the U.S.A.
ummm… yeahh…, I wouldn’t place too much store in what you read n the 'papers or see on TV, what’s “newsworthy” doesn’t necessarily correspond with a true reflection of “the state of things”.
I might venture some of the ways the USA is perceived “negatively”.
Firstly, and I think foremost, the US is perceived as “parochial”, having limited vision beyond its own borders and immediate interests. To an extent this is fair comment (I won’t bother to argue why it’s not fair) – surveys do seem to show that in terms of knowledge of current global affairs, citizens of the US fair comparatively poorly to other first world citizens. Take for instance the number of Americans who believe that the 9-11 terrorists were Iraqis.
Secondly, as “peaceful” states go, you seem to have been involved in rather more “conflicts” than one might expect. Sometimes these are clearly legitimate (fuck, do you know, I can’t find one that I know is universally received as such!), some of them are not in the least bit clear cut. Particularly at this time, Gulf War ver2.0 springs to mind. On the one hand it can be argued (and has been) that ridding Iraq of Saddam’s regime is a good thing, that makes the world a better place. But fuck it! the world’d be a better place without Berlusconi (and when she was in power, M. Thatcher (Hey, how come you didn’t come and save us then, Ronnie? Was the head that good?)), and general badness is not seen as being just cause for war. Now, Weapons of Mass Destruction, or, clear and irrefutable evidence of government sponsored terrorist acts, they’d be good fucking reasons, eh?
And then one remembers that the US has WMDs, and not too long ago (by its own admission) plotted to assassinate foreign heads of state.
And then one remembers that the putative evidence against Saddam for possession of WMDs and implication in the heinous acts of 9-11 is, at best, still before the jury, at worst, it is the fabrication of a power-hungry egotist bent on war, hoping that history will write him as a hero, not a zero.
Thirdly. I think it is possible that you are a victim of your own success, Hollywood movies, American sit-coms, Microsoft, Coca-Cola and Michael “Hey, could I pass for a white man yet?” Jackson are ubiquitous. There is more than one reason why these exports might be received with some opprobrium, your movies suck, I’m sorry, they do. 1 in 20 you get right enough to deserve a viewing, but hey, even European stoners gawp with disbelief at “Dude, Where’s My Car?”
“Who’s The Boss?” I believe, is widely received as perfectly good reason for a pre-emptive nucular strike, the more liberal of us just hope the writers choke on their own vomit.
Whatever, you get the drift, you didn’t invent sliced-bread, yours aren’t the only interests, castles aren’t pink, there is no such word as “misunderestimate”, and Coca-Cola really does rot your teeth.
Personally, I subscribe to none of the above.
Basically, we (the U.S.) are the shit!!!
People hate us for the same reason that people hate the NY Yankees, the Dallas Cowboys (let’s not consider the last few years), and the Japanese Little-League all stars. It’s because we dominate. We also know that we dominate. That just rubs our bush league neighbors the wrong way. They cry and cry because their own little countries aren’t 1/10th as powerful as ours and don’t understand why we won’t listen to them. Obviously all their problems are a result of our greed and not because of anything they do.
Well, eventually the U.S. will run out of stream and we will probably end up cying about the next superpower (Mexico??) and commenting on what stupid, uneducated, bruts they are.
I guess my point is…ummm… i dunno… anybody know what my point was:smack:
When typing that, I was thinking of this objection, but frankly I cannot off-hand say sheer numbers make for greater diversity. Hence I simplified my statement, leaving an implied ‘at least as’ in there. I didn’t want to get into a debate on orders of diversity, since that was not relevant to the present discussion.
I love my country; it’s the Bush administration I hate.
Tusculan, I don’t mean to insult you, but this really is a very silly thing to allege. Try “sheer numbers of cultures”. The US is very diverse, but it’s not that bloody diverse.
Horrible and sad though that is consider the alternative.
Approximately 250,000 Kurds killed in 1988-1991 via multiple methods including poison gas attacks and no discrimination between men, women, children or miltary targets. That’s just four years and only Kurds. Add in torture of Iraqi citizens (common even to the point of torturing their own Olympic athletes if they failed) and attacks on other groups Saddam didn’t like (such as the Shia muslims). How many orphaned and severly wounded children (not to mention dead ones) do you think you could lay at Saddam’s door?
Last I saw the US is responsible (as a result of the recent war) for somthing less than 10,000 deaths (both military and civilian although there is doubt an accurate number will ever be come by). Is that good? Nope. Does that make the US correct in any way? Nope. Will the overall death toll in Iraq be lower this year than it has in any year in the past 20? Probably.
I’m not saying I agree with the war and I certainly don’t agree with my president but this sort of knee-jerk pandering to tug the emotional heart strings misses the point completely.