Well no actually, by Strawmen I mean putting rather silly and irrelevant words into your protagonists mouths.
Feel free to disagree with my opinions, and disagree with what I say and I will argue against your points and defend my viewpoint, but don’t make up silly, arguments that I haven’t actually made, or for that matter, don’t actually believe in .
I suspect that you’re very young and I will always encourage young people to join in debates, but the train of your argument is putting it politely, incoherent , and a little bit absurd.
I am happy for you to keep making your point, and will happily debate with you.
It’s nice to see people of your age engaging in discussions, but don’t argue against the arguments you’d like your opponent to make, as against the what they have actually said, and actually believe in.
Looking forward to your next point, and I will treat it/them with respect when I answer them.
As a male I know exactly what a male thinks and feels every second, of every minute, of every hour of every day, of every month, of every year until I die.
Unlike say, a schoolgirl, to take a random example.
Are you one of COLANDERS schoolfriends ?
Because, as I’ve explained to her, on the Dope we don’t debate against Strawmen .
I doubt it does. Porn has only moved out of the shadows into the mainstream in the last decade or so with the internet. before then porn was hard to get.
Mainstream media does much more for the issue. However a lot of it is just the women themselves. A woman who has a healthy self image isn’t going to be nearly as badly affected by media images directed at them.
Well no actually, by Strawmen I mean putting rather silly and irrelevant words into your protagonists mouths.
Feel free to disagree with my opinions, and disagree with what I say and I will argue against your points and defend my viewpoint, but don’t make up silly, arguments that I haven’t actually made, or for that matter, don’t actually believe in .
I suspect that you’re very young and I will always encourage young people to join in debates, but the train of your argument is putting it politely, incoherent , and a little bit absurd.
I am happy for you to keep making your point, and will happily debate with you.
It’s nice to see people of your age engaging in discussions, but don’t argue against the arguments you’d like your opponent to make, as against the what they have actually said, and actually believe in.
Looking forward to your next point, and I will treat it/them with respect when I answer them.
Ok, let’s revisit your blanket statement about “what men like”. Have you noticed any posts by women complaining that men assume they want a facial, crave a good, brutal facefuck, and enjoy being gagged and forced to deepthroat an aggressive dick and look forward to washing cum out their hair and eyes? 'Cause I’ve seen more than a few women who enjoy giving a generous blowjob but who have also been discouraged that men seem to believe what they see in mainstream porn and have one-sided ideas about what to do in bed.
Protip: you aren’t a woman, and can’t objectively speak for what our experience is. Your post ain’t a cite. Unless you’re regularly fucking men. Are you regularly fucking men, Lust4Life?
Then perhaps you might try your hand at answering my question to you, which I shall repeat yet again: if the only thing that informs the porn preferences of men is their “biology”, then why do these preferences differ so markedly in different populations?
So far, your attempts at “debate” have consisted entirely of
repeated assertions that I am wrong and that I have somehow mischaracterized your position.
several assurances that you are, indeed, a very old man and you cannot understand the things that people in this thread are trying to explain to you.
I am still waiting for some kind of refutation of my points and your alternative explanation of observed data. If you can actually manage to articulate the respects in which you feel your stance differs from the one I have, based solely on your posts in this thread, attributed to you, then by all means, feel free to do so.
And yet despite dozens of wanes and waxes in thong style and prevalence in the past two decades, pubic shaving rates have never shown signs of a similar periodicity. Instead, they have only ever increased or, in more recent years, remained high and stable, even in segments of the female population that do not purchase or wear thongs and who have never had cause to see their female friends nude. Why do you suppose this is?
(Special hint: it’s not because pubic depilation is a fun or healthy activity!)
LOL - I can attest that, when I grow a beard (on my face), there’s a certain stage of the growth that I absolutely hate because it itches so badly. Can’t imagine that “down there”.
I agree that there is “fashion” in porn, but I think it would be misleading to compare it to clothing fashion – where novelty counts for a lot and some changes can be virtually arbitrary.
I think the changes are much slower than that, and some things will basically never go “out of fashion”.
Really?! Yikes.
For me the biggest WTF in porn is all the abusive crap. How much porn turns me on is the product of two factors: how hot the girl is, and how horny she is.
As soon as the guy’s choking her out, or forcing her to swallow (or indeed, bossing her around at all), one part of that equation is gone, and I’m semi at best.
Despite how common it is in porn, I really didn’t think many guys would go in for that.
(Some people assume that whatever is common in porn must be representative of what guys like. But that’s not necessarily the case. After all, there are tropes that persist in Hollywood, despite them stinking out every film they’re in).
If certain tropes keep recurring in cinema, it’s probably safe to say that most of the casual movie-going public doesn’t consider it a dealbreaker, even if me, you and Gene Siskel think it’s lame. Similarly, I’d think it would be pretty difficult for a trope to become “common” in general-interest porn if it was an active boner-killer for a large segment of the porn-viewing population.
And after you’ve seen enough of a thing that you initially paid no notice to in otherwise-adequate clips, would it really be so strange if you eventually decided it was something you liked? Maybe there’s a performer you particularly fancy who incidentally always keeps their shoes on during sex or makes cooing noises or some other thing that you wouldn’t have thought up if left to your own devices. How else can you explain the prevalence of those glaring tan jobs? It probably started out as a San Fernando valley thing, and now you see it all over the damn place. Forty years ago, I can’t imagine there was anyone pining away because the models in their Hustler mag didn’t look orange enough, but then, how can you know you want it unless you’ve seen it?
…not to say brutality and violence is particularly common in porn. Generally you have to look for that.
Of course not a dealbreaker or “natural selection” would indeed come into play.
But I doubt you would argue that there are bad tropes that persist nonetheless, or that Hollywood has both perfect awareness of every nuance of what audiences want, and perfect ability to deliver it.
Maybe. But if the rest of the film is enough to get you off, you may tolerate the rest. After all, most people probably jump past the bits that don’t work for them.
Forget about the gagging for a moment (which, even if only a handful of guys like it, it’s still more popular than I can fathom).
In general, there’s no doubt in my mind that there are porn producers out there that routinely do bad, awkward scenes, but have enough of the hottest performers that they have enough subscribers.
This is another disputable one. Tans are common, but then much of US porn is made in California. And pale porn performers (quick – buy that domain!) are common and popular also IME.
Sure they will, and they do. Remember when Sophia Loren and Bridget Bardot display soft, rounded bellies in their bikinis and we all thought they were hot as balls? Imagine if that same figure was in the current Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. It would never fly and readers and the media would scorch a soft bellied model right now. Same with hairless vags, if a 20 year old average male pulled the panties off a 20 year old average female to reveal a wild, thick natural bush he’d either laugh or ask her to wax it while he waited. Of course trends in porn change expectations and I can’t believe you would claim otherwise. You must be old enough to remember when access to porn was a rare treat that required an investment and effort to obtain. Anyone under 30 was weaned on free, mainstream porn and their expectations and desires will follow the same diet of giant implants, deep tans, and loud, subservient women who appear to get off on nothing more than becoming a target for the money shot. Just like the food readily available to us shapes our tastes and appetite, so does porn. There are legions of men out there who will be disappointed with average bodies, who expect women to beg for facials, who hope to see a hairless, pale pink vagina with nonexistent labia. But women see the same things, so off they run to the plastic surgeon and the waxer and the monster feeds on itself.
The most fascinating test would be to locate a young couple who individually had never been exposed to pornography and let them have at each other for a few weeks then interview them. Those lucky kids with no hangups or media driven expectations or preferences would probably be the most well adjusted and satisfied lovers on the planet.
There is lots of porn out there. The ‘gonzo’ genre has been steadily growing. There is porn with incredibly hairy/obese/pasty women. Porn with transgendered people. Tall/short/black/white, you name it. Porn with Indian women has started becoming common too- and the Indian women aren’t shaved/tanned/skinny. They’re pretty average. Amateur porn is pretty popular too- with mostly “real” bodies.
So I don’t think men necessarily have expectations based on the “classic” pornstar look. Tastes are so broad, there is someone for everyone.
The point that I was making in the post you’ve quoted is something completely different. I was saying I disagree with the idea that “All common tropes must be popular, or else they wouldn’t be common”.
It’s not true, bad tropes can persist an awful long time, just as in general, bad business practices can persist a long time. And because so much of what happens is copying here, bad tropes can be mainstream.
On the subject of whether gagging girls is popular among men, I remain skeptical. While it happens in lots of porn, it’s certainly not the majority. And when it does happen, it’s rarely the central feature – I haven’t personally seen any ads for “Choking girls out #6” (obviously such things exist: rule 34. But it doesn’t appear to be common).
This illustrates to me that things are not quite so simple. Breast implants are pretty unpopular IME, especially if you can tell just from looking. And I see no evidence that men are preferentially selecting women with tans.
Sorry but you repeatedly come up with irrelevant and incredibly silly Strawmen.
You make up things in your own mind and then expect the people who didn’t express your rather daft ideas in the first place, to defend them.
You talk and talk , but don’t actually react to your protagonists arguments, but react to the somewhat bizarre, and being very kind, idiotic arguments that you, yourself have put forward when no one else has, and then unbelievably expect others to defend your own projected predudices.
Quite frankly, you can no more debate a serious subject then you can breathe underwater.
I’m going to leave you to it now, I suspect that you don’t really understand logic, debate, and how grown ups think and that you are almost certainly still at school .
I feel bad that I’ve wasted probably 20 minutes of my life answering a nipper , giving their nippers viewpoint of how grownups feel.
Cheerio and don’t bother even replying because I won’t be looking at this thread anymore.
But because of your age I’ll bet money that you 'll take the opportunity to gob off, safe in the knowledge that I won’t be responding.
