How much is one entitled to know about their partner's finances?

Yes, this is what worries me. It causes friction now, and the last thing I want is to be fighting about money in front of kids or constantly feeling that I need to keep track of her spending.

Would you say full disclosure includes spending history (ie how one got into this mess)? Or just dealing with the here and now plus future plans?

I used to be very curious as to what led to the current situation. Now, I think I would settle simply for full disclosure of the present. That being said, I am bothered by the inability to let me in to the past history. There is not any event, financial or otherwise, that I feel the need to keep hidden away in such a fashion. And spending money foolishly in one’s youth seems to me a pretty unlikely sin to be judged too harshly on by one’s boyfriend (compared to say, cheating in past relationships, or other moral missteps).

Part of what you have to examine is also the issue of money itself.

Money is a very important part of a relationship. So you have to decide how much.

I knew of a woman who was married to a man for 26 years. He had ONE job in that time and got laid off. After six months he was very depressed and she was sick of him and she left him. She told me she won’t live with a bum who can’t get a job.

Whether this was fair or not, I don’t know, but I do know that if you’re that focuses on money that a 26 year marriage will end because of money, within six months, you’re way too money focused.

On the other hand, I understand this. I am a gay male and one time I dated a guy and he made more than $100,000 than I did. He had NO concept of money. 'Cause he never had to.

But it was a constant soruce of irritation to me that he simply couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just buy a new suit or couldn’t go out to eat or had to budget.

Bottom line of what I’m saying is now is a good time to examine ALL parts of your relationship.

What if your girlfriend gets sick and can’t work? Are you prepared to support her? Are you prepared to look after her? If not, than a “marriage” probably isn’t the way you should be looking.

No one is saying money isn’t important, it is, and I’m not saying having a healthy check book isn’t a good thing, but like everything in life it’s a balance.

I got crushed by this “great recession” and I think in all fairness to everyone, now is the time to lay all the cards on the table and go forth or just call it quits and let both of you move on, either together or seperately.

Can you guys clarify these statements? Based off of everything that I’ve read, any debt that is incurred before marriage does not impact the other spouse unless they co-sign a loan or something like that. Even after two people are married, if they maintain separate finances it seems as though they have limited liability regarding their spouses debt.

Has she been supporting you while you have had your substantial periods between work or on your traveling projects?

Are you financially contributing to your relationship? Yeah I got the bit about you lending her some cash but do you share the burden of your joint expenses or because she earns so much more than you does she take the lion’s share?

Depends on the state, but even in non-community property states, it can be very difficult to be married to someone and keep completely separate finances that keep you from having any liability toward them. A lawyer will probably chime in and tell me I’m wrong.

My brother in law got screwed over twice - once in his ex-wife’s bankruptcy and the second time in the divorce - by assuming her debt was her debt.

I would recommend software like Quicken. Rather like dieting, finances become much more clear when every expense is written down and the writing down is often enough feedback to cause a change in behavior. “I don’t want to have to write this down and make my numbers look bad, so I won’t eat this pie/buy this car.”

I think people should be leery of any issues where communication is cut off. It’s not necessarily what’s not being said but the fact that there are topics that are essentially off-limits. Eventually, most couples will NEED to have financial conversations. It’s best to get into the habit early.

Michelle Singletary was mentioned earlier in this discussion. She had a column this week in which she recommended a number of books on finances for couples.

I am not in a relationship, but I did spend last year reading dozens of personal finance books in an effort to change my own approach to money management. Almost all of them discussed the importance of being open and honest with your partner about financial issues.

No, I’ve always supported myself for these endeavors. I live very cheaply (rarely eat out, no car payments, etc.) and lucked into a situation where I am the caretaker for a house – so no rent either. This enabled me to quickly save up money, even on a fairly modest salary.

We don’t live together yet, so joint expenses amounts to what? Restaurants, movies? We divide that up evenly.

As long as she is paying her half of the joint bills (e.g. rent and utilities if you live together), then I’d say it’s NOYB. If she digs herself into a hole, she won’t affect your ability to borrow money, etc. because you aren’t married.

As others have said, if marriage is in the future, then that’s an entirely different matter. Because spending patterns, and how much debt you’re comfortable with, can and will affect a marriage.

My concern is spending patterns that would affect our future together. We’ve been together over 6 years. If I didn’t feel there was at least a fair chance this relationship was leading up to something, her spending would not be an issue.

And frankly, after six years its unfair if you DON’T say something. To be wondering why a bigger commitment isn’t forthcoming, when there is an answer (assuming she, too, would like a bigger commitment), isn’t fair to either of you. i.e. if you are both happy the way things are, there is no reason to meddle in her finances. If both of you are looking for marriage, kids, a house with a white picket fence, a dog (or whatever your committed bliss looks like), its only fair to spell out the expectations so she can decide to meet them, or find someone whose expectations she is willing to meet.

Very simply, she spends far more than she takes it. It doesn’t really matter one lick how much she makes; just like with weight loss, debt is money in money out.

My cousin, with an elite MBA degree and a hubby with the same, called my mom a few years back. She needed 10 grand for her credit card deb. Now, they were both working 6 figure jobs with no kids. How the hell could that happen? For them it was expensive trips and new cars and dinners out with many bottles of wine. Mom refused, told her to go fly a kite and reduce her expenses. Kind of blew me away at the time; I got a stern lecture on not repeating the same mistakes.

Do NOT marry her or live with her until you’re certain she 1) is out of non-school non-car debt or at least shown many months of progress towards digging herself out of it and 2) you’re certain she can continue living a lifestyle within her means.

Then the two of you need to have a Come to Jesus meeting so that you can let her know that her spending patterns risks delaying a permanent commitment.

Do NOT marry someone who is not self-disciplined with their money, unless you’re willing to pony up the difference. My BIL married a woman who was in debt up to her eyeballs. Now THEY’RE up to their debt in eyeballs. When he lost his job, and his income went from the mid-6 figures to mid-5 figures, she STILL bought $200 shoes. The stress on him was horrible because he was, and still is, financially responsible.

I think it’s a pretty serious issue, but not insurmountable. As others have said, different people have different levels of comfort with debt and with discussions about money, but in order to have an actual partnership, this is information you need to know–and to judge your own comfort with.

She doesn’t want to talk about it because she either feels it’s none of your business or feels you will judge her negatively for it. To combat the first, well, you have to convince her it is your business. To combat the second, there is little you can do except to make it clear that you are also going to judge her unwillingness to talk negatively.

That doesn’t mean that you should be sneering and derisive. Be as understanding and nonconfrontational as possible, but money issues will matter, probably a lot.

You mentioned poor spending practices when she was younger, but do you know the specific source of her debt? Who is she paying? A credit card company, collection agency, a former pimp, the mob? The fact that the principal on her “loans” hasn’t seemed to decrease much, and that she in fact had to borrow money from you despite making over $100,000/yr seems fishy to me.

I’m not sure about debt you bring into a marriage, but the credit histories of both spouses certainly become linked when you marry. Debts incurred during a marriage are the responsibility of both spouses, as far as I know. Creditors certainly will go after spouses, whether or not you actually put your name on the debt.

I don’t agree with this at all. I’ll use an analogy to explain why - while I don’t believe that partners have any obligation to give their new partner their entire sexual history, chapter and verse, you DO have an obligation to disclose any leftovers that might affect the new relationship - herpes, aids, children*, etc. His girlfriend’s debt and spending habits affect the new relationship, and I think he has a right to know what’s going on with her. It’s already affecting him anyway, with her borrowing money from him and not paying it back in any timely fashion.

This I agree with. I am a frugal person, and not comfortable carrying much debt, and I need to know where my partner stands on that - someone much more comfortable with debt than I am is a deal-breaker for me. I would want to know where the debts came from, too - a student loan to become a doctor is not the same debt to me as $100,000 in the hole because you buy a new wardrobe every month. I really do need to know why the debt isn’t going down, too - that speaks to spending habits that could also be deal-breakers for me.

I would say that you need to know your partner’s finances in depth, but you need to make decisions together on what level of commingling you’re both comfortable with. Some people keep their finances completely separate, some (like my husband and me) have one joint bank account that everything goes into and comes out of.

*That’s a joke, son.

Does she understand this? Does she understand that her inability to control her budget might affect your future together?
The biggest red flag is that your habits are not compatible. I suspect that would cause incredible amounts of friction. My wife and I are very compatible, and in 32 years of marriage we have had exactly one fight about money, which came from my being excessively cheap about a big purchase. I can’t tell you how much stress this has eliminated.
The time to talk is now. Your action after the talk is up to you.

Ex co-worker of mine had a similar story. She’d been with this guy for awhile, they talked about marriage but he told her that he wouldn’t while she was holding all that debt, I think she owed about 15 or 20k. So she got a plan, made some changes, they were doing well, last I heard.

The first step to improving a process is understanding the existing process. A look at how she got where she is (not with a fine-toothed comb, but in general terms) tells her whether she is doing the same things which got her into the current situation; an examination of what the current situation actually is (“I can stop smoking at any time!” is not a realistic assessment, is it? Well, it is one in about as many cases as “I can pay off my debts at any time!”), is needed in order to decide whether that situation does need improvement or not - it’s possible that one person will think it doesn’t and the other one thinks it does, and if that happens it’s a big danger sign.

Credit card companies.

The borrowing was the result of a peculiar situation at the time. I understand her reasons for the borrowing; I just am having trouble understanding how the debt is not going away.

She is not making large, extravagant purchases that I have seen. No drug or gambling habit.

Her rent is more expensive than it could be. If friends suggest they go out to a particular event, or restaurant, etc. I have never seen her turn them down on financial grounds. She tends to run late at times and then take taxis to make up for it. I have a suspicion that her dry cleaning bill might cause me physical illness if I saw it. I think the money just to pay the interest on her debt is fairly significant.

I don’t know, can that add up to a six figure income? This is why I feel I would need to sit down and thoroughly discuss where her money is going each month, item by item, before I made any big commitments.

Little things come up and each one gets me worrying about the future. She has a tendency to offhandedly suggest things for us to do (traveling somewhere, going to some pricey event, starting up a business, etc.) and I inevitably end up reminding her that she has no money for such things. Can a person change their habits? I don’t want to have to worry about what she is spending money on.