So you know, things are going very well with the girlfriend these days. We don’t fight. We have lots in common. The sex is good and the rest is just fine too. No, not perfect, but frankly better than I expect.
To keep it short let’s cut to the chase. This girl is making payments on a new car. She has student loans that have not yet been nicked. Apparently her plan is to go immediately from undergrad to grad school, which is going to jack up her debt by A LOT. I won’t be surprised if it tops out at around $75-100k by the time she is ready to start her career. And it ain’t law- I have my doubts if it will get off the ground at all since she will have to work through grad school which makes it seem unlikely to me that she can be the top performer. And even if she gets a job in her field, she isn’t going into law or medicine, I don’t expect her to make a staggering fortune, and to boot she very well may need to be willing to relocate to where the (specialized) work is, while I am going to stay right here no matter what thank you very much.
So I am starting to wonder if I can make any long-term plans at all with this person. Like, marrying someone with a $100k debt they can’t pay off will pretty much fuck all the rest of my plans for my future, which otherwise look pretty bright. I really don’t want to have “choose between me and your career path” as part of the foundation of our relationship- ISTM that can only lead to bitterness later. But to stay with her long-term will very likely mean relocating to where her work will be, which will mean giving up my job, which is the foundation of my entire lifestyle.
I am feeling like I have to cut her loose with a stern warning about enslaving herself with such ill-considered debt. What say ye dopers?
Well… not really. I am only now apprehending the scale of the issue. And I am not sure how to approach it in the first place. And I am afraid of dissuading her from her career path, even though it looks from my perspective to lead to a crippling debt load. I think she would be way better off working for $15/hr without adding more debt than digging herself into a bottomless hole for double the money later. Alas, I am a factor in the debate. If this career is her dream, I don’t want to make her choose between it and me (even though I am convinced I have a better grasp of math). She probably understands what she is doing better than I, career-wise. I probably understand better what she is doing to herself debt-wise, and don’t want to be a part of that side of the equation. Because I would basically have to sacrifice everything I have been working for in that case. See? We can’t be together and both have our dreams.
How old are the two of you? Are you in a just-for-fun relationship, or are you both considering marriage in a relatively short time? I don’t really see a future for the two of you, either, and there’s nothing wrong with that or either one of you - two people who want different things out of life sometimes have to give up on a relationship that just won’t work for both of them. You don’t want to live your life servicing a debt and moving around for her career, and she wants a career that will entail both of those things. Sounds like a basic incompatibility to me.
I am 8 years older than she. I have been trying to get out of debt for… 8 years. Almost there!
I pretty much assume that she will start itching for children soon after grad school. She’ll be about 32-33 then. But how will that work at all, considering everything else? She needs to find a doctor or some asshole lawyer for her dreams to come true… which isn’t her dream either. She wants a stud like me
I have no guidance except to say that in many respects I am who your girlfriend will become.
I am not in my mid-40s and am carrying close to six-figures of debt with student loans. And I am single.
Now I have no idea if there is a correlation between the two except that I have had guys cut bait when they learn, even though I have never expected anyone to pay my debt off for me. But no one has ever TALKED to me about it – they simply made assumptions and cut bait as you are projecting to do.
Granted, the relationships I did engage in were never such that I suspect would involve children, but I have no doubt that part of the reason I never had viable MARRIAGE-minded relationships included the debt issue. But the crucial part is the frank discussion.
Be honest and forthright with her if it is an issue to you. For all you know, she has plans on handling the debt – or has already thought about it and is willing to sign a pre-nup – which might bode well to continuing the relationship. But you will never know if you don’t at least honor her with your honesty.
Either way it sounds more like an issue of different directions and being clear about what you each plan for the future and whether it can meet each of your needs.
If they cant be agreed on, then it might be time to consider its future, but its a mutual decision really - you dont want to move for the sake of your career, she doesnt want to stay for the sake of hers, happens all the time, neither of you are really ‘wrong’ or both of you are depending on how you look at it.
She is an undergrad making payments on a new car? Hmm… I wouldn’t marry her. All that debt plus this car thing… just seems so irresponsible. I don’t think I could handle it.
I agree that maybe it would be better to talk to her than to freak out on what you imagine her future must be. She could very well have a pretty solid plan that you have no idea about. Or she might have some crazy vision of the future even wackier than the one you came up with. It seems silly to completely drop her because of some idea you thought of without even consulting her.
That said, it doesn’t seem like you are too “into” her, and you are mostly looking for a girl who fits neatly into your “lifestyle” with minimal disruptions. Honestly the easiest way to get that is at the local shady massage parlor. Anything more than that probably will require some sacrifices and probably won’t fall on the neat timeline you’ve dreamed up. Life is complicated, love even more so.
Talk to her about it. Use “I” statements. Share what you’re wondering about and ask about her expectations.
I had similar concerns a while back. I am out of debt, but my girlfriend who just finished her doctorate studies has lots of student debt. Moreover, her field had pisspoor job openings prior to the economy tanking and it’s even worse now.
That said, we are together for the long haul and are living together but we do not merge our bank accounts. As it is, I pay more than half of shared expenses, but she’s not far behind. She very responsible and pretty frugal with her money, so she’s on it and I never have the reason to fear she’s ignoring the situation. Just the opposite, she’s very aware of it and has perma-guilt that she isn’t (yet) paying 50% of everything. Though she doesn’t have her intended job yet, she still works her ass off at the jobs she does have (part time admin that gives full benefits, part time teaching in a music studio). The good news is that being a teacher she’s therefore eligible for a recent loan forgiveness program the government passed, so it’s going to be less than it could have been.
If your girlfriend hasn’t done so already, she should research the status of loan forgiveness, repayment options available to her, work up a plan so she (and you) know what you’re in for.
To me it isn’t the money thing (well, that’s a big deal to me, but not the biggest). To me its the relocate thing. You don’t sound willing to, she sounds like she will need to - that’s one of those “this isn’t going to work” and if you continue to date her until its time to relocate, a whole lot of heartache is going to happen, or someone is going to have to give up their dream.
She also sounds like she is at that “I can have everything” stage in life - New car as an undergrad, $100k in debt for a job that isn’t high paying to leave grad school and have kids and move across the country for her fabulous career with a loving husband who supports her… I’m too selfish to deal with what happens when reality hits.
But I only know her from a few sentences on the internet…
The government seems to be doing a good job of hiding it, but definitely have her look into working in public service of some kind and benefiting from the loan forgiveness program. Gov’t work (federal, state, local), teaching, etc. There are a ton of jobs that qualify for this.
I’m working for the state gov’t (plans for federal eventually). My debt is only undergraduate (no plans for grad school, not for me) and I will definitely be losing a lot of it after 10 years.
Make sure you consolidate any government loans and choose the “income based” repayment plan if you take this route. Obviously, this greatly benefits those with very high debt and a relatively low income. It changes each year as your income changes, but it’s still very hard to go wrong. I shaved $100/mo. off of my monthly payment based on my income, and I can only imagine what sort of reduction she would get. After 10 years, the remaining debt is forgiven. This is for gov’t loans only, not private loans through your bank.
It’s something worth considering. They JUST released this program within the last year or so.
Oh, settle down. Differences in financial philosophies, and fights about money are one of the leading causes of divorce. Just as (IMHO) you should not marry someone with whom you have an unsatisfying sexual relationship, you should never marry anyone that you don’t have a sound financial relationship with – not measured in net worth but in spender/saver/enjoyer/planner/do-now-er/procrastinator/etc outlooks.
However, if you cannot have a reasonable discussion about these issues where you really listen to her point of view and she really listens to yours, it’s over anyway, or it needs a hell of a lot of work.
Financial planning is all well and good. It’s more about the “eh, she’s okay. I don’t hate her. It works.” feeling of the first paragraph combined with the breezy statement that he never has any intention of moving no matter what because his life is set. Just doesn’t sound to me like someone who is looking for a partnership as much as an accessory.
Yeah, good call. I wouldn’t go so far as the “accessory” part, but the “eh” attitude is definitely there. Sometimes - most times - relationships don’t work out, and I don’t foresee a different ending here. That’s okay. Most people get married once, maybe twice, if at all, but how many times do people break up?
Also, OP, for now this is all totally in your head. You’re projecting all sorts of shit - maybe she doesn’t want kids? You won’t know until you, y’know, talk to her. Frankly, when people in a relationship skirt around some big topic, making assumptions based on their own ideas and all that … it’s a huge red flag to me.
You’re not the first person to have a relationship stumble over debt issues. See this article, for instance from the New York Times last month (“How Debt Can Destroy a Budding Relationship”).
I was thinking of that exact same article when I saw the OP.
I don’t think heavy debt has to be a dealbreaker, but I think you’d be crazy not to factor it into the life you guys can expect to have together. It’s not shallow to practical – debt can cause a lot of day to day stress and can limit your options in terms of owning a house, having kids, travel, career flexibility, retirement, etc. Better to realize your life goals are incompatible now than to wait until you’re mired in a situation you knew at the outset you didn’t want.
Of course, the fact that your girlfriend may end up with a career she loves, which makes her happier and more fun to be around than someone who makes money but dreads going to work every day, may make the debt well worth it to both of you. The main thing is to be honest with yourself about what you want out of your life.
