She says "tomAYto," I say "tomAHto": relationship advice/comments needed![a bit long]

Here’s the background: I’ve been involved in a serious relationship with this woman for six years now; we’ve been living together for about 3 years. We are both in our 30s, although she is a few years older than I am.

We met at the university which we are still attending–she’s now working on a masters degree, while I am nearing completion of my PhD. I’m planning to finish the dissertation and defend it over this summer.

Since I started writing my dissertation 3 years ago, I’ve also been working full-time at the university library. It doesn’t pay very much–about $20k a year–though it helps ends meet (albeit just barely; most of my paychecks are consumed by rent, car payments, and utilities). She’s currently between jobs, having recently completed an internship abroad.

Additionally, this is only my second ever serious relationship, whereas when we met, she was going through a difficult divorce. Her ex-husband was a fairly wealthy lawyer, but they had grown apart emotionally.

There are many things I love about this woman. Just to name a few: We share a strong interest in art and antiques, and we both like to travel a lot. We also laugh a lot–I love the way her smile lights up her already beautiful face. She is, to me, the most beautiful woman in the world, and utterly charming.

But we also have more than our share of stress. In fact, we had a very serious talk last night, and now I’m aware that our relationship is hanging by a thread.

What’s threatening to sever this thread is our different perspectives on issues like careers and money. She is especially disappointed that I haven’t found a better job over the past three years. She points out that I have a masters degree already, but I’m making less money than a lot of people who only have bachelors degrees. While I contend that my current job is just a way to get by until I get my PhD and can start my “real” career, she’s not much impressed with my idea of a good job: a tenure-track professorial position, probably starting around $35-40k a year, and after tenure and several years of promotions, maybe up to $60-70k.

I feel that such a position, or something comparable in a related field (e.g., museum work), would offer a fairly comfortable life, particularly when complemented by her own salary. However, she’s not convinced. Basically, she believes that she cannot depend upon me to support her lifestyle–what she wants to be our lifestyle. She points out that she was used to having an upscale lifestyle, with a nice car, a house with a garage, and designer clothes. She’s made a lot of sacrifices to be with me–right now we live in a 2-bedroom townhouse, no garage, little closet space for all of her clothes, etc.

Last night, she asked me (somewhat rhetorically) if I could buy her a new car (by “new car,” she means at least a lower-model BMW or Mercedes). When I tried to explain that I couldn’t buy a new car right now, she argued that her ex-husband could. In fact, he could, and did, provide for all of the material things she liked. Sometimes, she admitted, she regrets having left him.

This is, I believe, the crux of the issue: our different perspectives on money and material things. Although I appreciate fine things, particularly antiques and aesthetics, I generally don’t invest a whole lot emotionally in material objects. Indeed, my approach is almost Buddhist–if I accidentally chip a plate or break a glass, I may feel disappointed, but I will quickly get over it. Material things, I feel, don’t last forever, and they aren’t as important as more “spiritual” and emotional issues.

However, she interprets my attitude as carelessness and apathy. Those objects, whether they’re dishes, or clothes, or cars, contain a lot of emotional value for her. They signify that her life is good, and as things currently stand–i.e., me working a low-paying job and living in a smaller place than she’s accustomed to–she only sees herself as going backwards in life. “I’m too old to live as a student anymore,” she told me. “I can’t start my life completely over.”

She feels that the impetus is now on me to make changes in my life–she’s compromised her lifestyle for long enough; now it’s time that I compensate by improving our material existence. I stated that we would be living much better within a few years (considering that my degree is almost completed), but that I also wanted to be happy with my career–I would rather work a job that I love, but which doesn’t offer an incredible salary (basically, the kind of faculty position that I have my sights set on), than work a higher-paying job that makes me miserable and unfulfilled. And I know I would feel fufilled teaching and doing research–it’s what I love most in this world.

Apparently, this means I lack ambition–she says I could get a much better position than a professorship if I really wanted it. By focusing so much on an academic position, my career perspective is too myopic–I need to think “outside of the box,” and I need to remember that there are two people in my life. I should not only be focused on my happiness (which depends mainly on intellectual stimulation), but also on her happiness (which stems largely from those material objects) which together = our relationship’s happiness.

We’ve had similar discussions in the past, but this one was by far the most serious. She stated, with no ambiguity, if I failed to change my perspective on the above issues, and if I failed to nurture some kind of ambition in life, that she would leave me.

So, I’m trying to figure out my course of action right now. I don’t want our relationship to end–I do love her and want her to be happy. But I’m not sure how to instill this ambition for a non-academic job–or, more fundamentally, how I can widen my perspective to value material objects as much as intellectual or spiritual issues. It is clear, however, that I will have to make some effort at seeing things through her eyes, if we are to have any future at all.

Last night, she voiced her fear that we are too “different”–she’s afraid that our value-systems aren’t compatible. I’d rather think that we complement each other, and that our differences are what makes our relationship strong.

I’m wondering if anyone else has had a similar relationship–were you able to overcome those differences, to make them complement each other? How were you able to compromise your priorities in the best interest for the relationship? Or did you find those differences really were insurmountable?

[warning siren] aaaaaaaOOOOOOOOOOgah!!! [/warning siren]

In all this talk about what she expects you to contribute to her financial well-being, does she talk about what *you * need and want?

And, I’m sorry, but why isn’t girlfriend providing for herself? She’s a big girl, she’s got a college degree; why isn’t she out bringing home the big bucks? Is working for a living beneath her or something? Did I miss something?

I make more money than my husband. I do not expect him to *give * me anything.

Girlfriend is only thinking about herself and what she can get out of you. If “stuff” is more important to her than your happiness, then maybe “think outside the box” of this relationship.

No offense, but your gf sounds pretty shallow. I’d rethink the entire relationship.

Robin

In the last personal ad I created and posted (successfully, which is why it was the last:)), I specified that female respondents were to be capable of supporting themselves in the style to which they were accustomed.

You should not expect her to keep and pamper you economically; she should not expect it of you.

Y’all need to have a long talk about money and relationships.

And I agree with everything DeVena says above.

and

All three of these quotes leave me feeling dirty. I am much like you when it comes to material things, but this seems shallow. To the point that is almost disgusts me. I realize that I am not in your shoes, and that I don’t know her like you do, but this just seems crazy!

I think the second quote is the most telling. She regrets leaving a man she was emotionally distant from just because he could buy her some German trash? Please… No hate for you brother, I have been in a relationship like this. My ex was a stripper (warning 1), who was just “doing it for the money” (warning 2). When I couldn’t provide the kind of life she wanted, even after I spent everything I made on her (warning 3), she left me and told the cops that I had raped her.

sigh

I really hope for the best for you my friend, but I don’t think you should change your ideas on material objects to please someone who is this shallow.

Good luck my friend.

Basically she’s giving you an ultimatium. You can either get a better job and buy her all the material shit that she wants or she’s going to leave you." Personally, I’d say buh-bye to her and to your relationship.

Not to be too harsh or anything but judging by what you’ve said she has said, I have a feeling she’s going to leave you no matter what you do. Just the fact that she’s giving you an ultimatium and talking about ending the relationship means she’s been thinking about it so more then likely she’s already planning on leaving and wants to use the material/money bullshit as her excuse for ending the relationship. Also, I would be prepared for her to go back to her ex-husband because the fact that she told you that he can buy her a car and she regrets leaving him more than likely means she’s going to try to get back with him and, could possibly be banging him on the side already.

In that case, she should jolly well feel free to go out and purchase them herself.

I’m sorry this sounds so harsh, because it seems from your OP that you are very fond of this woman and enjoy many things about your relationship. The way you have described her outlook on finances and material things strikes me as very alarming. She seems to be placing all of the burden of financial security on you – does she want to be a partner in a relationship, or does she want to be a kept woman? I think it is utterly ridiculous of her to paint your career goals in such a negative light simply because its income would not meet her unreasonable standards. I am curious to what exactly would be “a much better position than a professorship.”

I hope you do not give up your ambitions of being an academic because of her demands.

Look… she’s used to being a materially well taken care of lawyer’s wife. She fell out of love with hubby and fell in love with you because you were “emotionally nurturing”. Now that her “in love” hormones have subsided she’s looking around and you’re seeing her real world levels of maintenance expectations. I’m sure there are things about her that you love deeply but let’s face facts, you’re in your thirties at this point and your personality is not going to change.

She wants hard driving male “A” type material success and emotionally sensitive “B” type nurturing. Maybe Mr. “Two mints in one!” is out there, but it’s not you. Be honest, you know it’s over. Just make it as quick and painless as possible. It time to cut the hanging thread.

Whatever happened to gender equality? If she wants a BMW she can work and buy it with her own money.

I don’t think you should change your values to suit her material needs. You seem to be more interested in art, culture and your spiritual development. If she doesn’t appreciate the value in that as much as she appreciates a fancy car, she doesn’t seem like the right gal for you.

Let her go, so she can find a nice fat wallet to settle down with. Find someone who will appreciate YOU, not your bank balance.

Have to agree with astro on this one.

Unfortunately, if two people don’t want the same thing – whatever that “thing” is (exclusivity, material objects, emotional closeness, sexual practices) – the relationship isn’t going to work. It’s painful as hell, but she’s made it clear where her priorities are. If they’re not your priorities, you guys aren’t going to be happy together.

If she’s focusing on what you can provide her materially over what you can provide her emotionally, then she’s not approaching the relationship from the same perspective you are, and you’re bound to run into problems later even if you do stay together.

Even if you were to look for a better-paying position, you may not be happy with your job, which will garner resentment that will seep back into your marital life. You only complement each other if each of you are willing to tolerate each others’ views – in this case it seems she’s not tolerant of yours. She sounds very shallow indeed.

I sympathize with your career goals though – i hope to get a teaching job very similar to the one you describe once i finish my PhD. My SO isn’t as concerned about the money (she’s an engineer, so she may make more than i will anyway) as the possibility that we’d be changing locales frequently until i finally found a permanent position. It introduces a little bit of tension into the relationship, though i don’t think it’s shallow of her, unlike in your situation.

I think some of her attitude may come down to cultural differences. Her childhood in Brazil was quite rural, and she always considered those material things (cars especially, which her family did not have when she was growing up) as symbols of success. She has done a lot of work to pull herself up, and I’m quite proud that she’s been able to obtain a bachelors and soon a masters degree here in the U.S., relying of course on her proficiency in a second language.

And she’s very image-consious. I know other Brazilians (like SD’s own Rashak Mani) who are as intellectually-inclined as I am (and probably moreso), but I’ve also known several Brazilians who really prize appearances. Stylish clothes, etc. are interpreted as reflective of your inner confidence.

So right from the beginning of our relationship, she’s wanted to dress me up nicer and so forth. I really needed a “makeover,” so to speak, and it was really cute how involved she got in it.

I think her point is not that she needs me to provide for her. She’s immensely capable of that, and I expect she will have a full independent career once she graduates. But she sees herself as living at one standard, and she’d like me to strive for the at least same thing.

Her example of buying her a new BMW was very poorly-chosen, I’d agree. I almost didn’t want to include that in my OP. She intends to have enough money to buy herself a new car, but she’s afraid that I’ll hold her back with my considerable student loan debts–and that I won’t be able to settle those debts quickly, since I’m not aiming at the same heights that she is. Cars symbolize a lot to her, ever since childhood, so I think that’s why she chose that question.

Part of the reason we had this discussion, I suspect, is because I’ve had a lot of money trouble over the past few years. I usually pay the rent, but once in a while, she’s gladly helped. However, this past week I had to ask her if she could help with the rent, and although she didn’t say anything, I knew she was thinking “it’s been three years at the same job, and he’s still having trouble paying the rent. Why hasn’t he looked for anything better, so he wouldn’t have these problems?” (incidentally, she did help, but I know she wasn’t happy)

I don’t know if anything of this clarifies the situation any or not.

I would pretty much agree with what everyone else is saying. It sounds like she’s looking for someone to take care of her - “I want nice things, so you have to buy them for me. Now, or in the near future.” You say she thinks she’s “compromised her lifestyle” for long enough but it wasn’t her lifestyle, it was her ex-hubby’s that she happened to be living. Unless she’s been supporting you (it doesn’t sound like it, but not entirely clear from the post), then she wasn’t making sacrifices for you, because these weren’t things she’d have had if she were single.

Please please please get away from this woman. She is bad, bad news for you. You sound like a really awesome person, she sounds like a selfish, stuck-up, materialistic bitch. What everyone said above is true; no matter what you do she is probably going to leave anyway. She is basically asking you to change all your career goals. You have worked for years to get your PhD and you want to be an academic; now she asks you to change all that so you can buy her nice things?!? Does she even give a crap about YOUR happiness? She is asking you to change your whole outlook and personality, from a smart academic who isn’t obsessed with material things, to a money-grubbing materialist whose purpose is to buy her nice things? How could you possibly stand for this? She is asking you to totally change who you are to please her; but if you asked her to change who she is, what would she say? She would say NO. You deserve so much better than this.

I cannot believe there are people out there like your girlfriend; it makes me sooo sick.

Tell the bitch to buy her own damn crap!!

Sorry - didn’t see your post before mine went up.

Yes, yes it does. Now, when I picture her in my mind delivering her selfish ultimatum, she has a bit of an accent.

In my opinion, the most important things in a relationship are: honesty, communication, common values, and expectations . When she decided, whether it was 3 years ago or 6 years ago, that you would (not could) provide her with this certain lifestyle, your relationship came into jeopardy. I also believe she is manipulating when she says, “my ex used to…” Moreover, her urging you to move into a more profitable job, not the charity / research / etc. work you would like to pursue, is another manipulation on her part to get the lifestyle which suits her. This violates all that (to me) is important in a relationship. The lines of communication have failed, you must fix them if you want to save the relationship. Good luck!

She says she respects my academic aspirations, but that she thinks I can do a lot more. She once told me she has this vision of me giving lectures to an assembled audience of important dignitaries from around the world, and holding them all enthralled with my rhapsodies on Botticelli (or whatever). She thinks I’m limiting myself by teaching college students (that’s a whole ’ nother thread topic).

I’d be happy with anything that lets me practice my academic research, though I’d be happier with something paying more than my crappy library job (which I’ve never considered a career–it barely makes minimum wage). If it pays $40k, fine. But she insists that I could do the same thing for $100k if I just looked hard enough, and if I knew the right people–people from outside the academic world.

I really hope you’re not trying to make excuses for her; there is NO excuse for this kind of behavior!

Also, why doesn’t she have a job? Why have you been paying the rent all by yourself for 3 years? Why hasn’t she contributed?

It’s women like your girlfriend that give women a bad name!