How much money do beggars make?

[micco]

I’m not expert on homelessness. I was just relating anecdotes which seemed responsive to the OP.

@lexi

or like micco’s tale of beggars turning down $10/h - perhaps his friend does not seem trustworthy to the street people

My roommate was a well-known real estate agent and professionally dressed. I don’t dispute that they may not have trusted him, but in that case I’d expect a more vague “no” rather than the unanimous response he always got that he was not offering enough money to take them away from their panhandling. Maybe that was just an easy excuse for them. I’m not in a position to know one way or another.

and the word - homeless by choice - do you not think that something must be wrong in someone’s life to prefer the streets to another place.

I’ll grant that many of these had mental problems or, at the very least, seriously disfunctional backgrounds. However, they were functional people who managed to get money, food, and shelter on a daily basis and refused offers for “better” situations. They did not regard homeless shelters, halfway houses, or training programs as improvements so they were explicitly choosing to remain in their situation. Since the only evidence of their mental problem was that they did not avail themselves of the improvements other people expected, there’s little that could be done to force change on them. It’s a hard life they chose, but they did everything they could to remain in it.

As for the rich suburban kids, I met a few in vancouver who would fit that bill, coming down on weekends, but most of those kids were abused and neglected at home as well

Actually, in Berkeley, it was kind of like hanging out at the mall. They may very well have had problems at homes (like any teenager) but their playing at being homeless was not an escape from that, just a slacker way to spend the day.

I’m really not trying to sound heartless and I recognize that there are needy homeless out there who deserve our help. I think that side of the issue is generally accepted and I’m just relating a couple of contrary points.

[lexi]

Micco, your viewpoint isn’t really contradictory, just a view from the outside - and I can understand what you see since I have been living a normal life for about 15 years.
regarding:

I’ll grant that many of these had mental problems or, at the very least, seriously disfunctional backgrounds. However, they were functional people who managed to get money, food, and shelter on a daily basis and refused offers for “better” situations. They did not regard homeless shelters, halfway houses, or training programs as improvements so they were explicitly choosing to remain in their situation. Since the only evidence of their mental problem was that they did not avail themselves of the improvements other people expected, there’s little that could be done to force change on them. It’s a hard life they chose, but they did everything they could to remain in it.

On the streets your viewpoint becomes “US vs. THEM” and you feel like you are no longer part of that world that is offering to help and accepting an offer of help requires you trust the person or organization offering.

To many a street person, an offer of a $10/h job for landscaping may be wrought with fears of slave labour or abuse at the work place, after all, who are the cops going to believe - the street person or the business man if something happens.
As a street person I was attacked by suburban kids more than once, I was mugged and beaten for entertainment if I was not in a group of other kids. There are also people who are in homeless shelters who prey upon other homeless people, there are ex-convicts, and other criminals - where in a group of your choosing on the streets you are much safer.

The police did nothing to protect us kids, instead we were harassed and mistreated by police on occasion.

You get a real skepticism about the world and people and your world view becomes very skewed.

If a person asks what you make or offers you help, often the easiest way of turning it down is to say that you don’t need the help.

Actually, in Berkeley, it was kind of like hanging out at the mall. They may very well have had problems at homes (like any teenager) but their playing at being homeless was not an escape from that, just a slacker way to spend the day.

There were kids who came down and hung out on the streets with us and begged for change who were not in need, but they were misfits and had problems of their own, but had not finally mad the step to the streets fully. And then there were others who thought it was fun to hang out and have no rules - who went back home as soon they realized that the streets were worse than where they were.

The street kids protect their own and just like any other teenagers there are ones who fit in and ones who don’t. Except in that group were the ones who did not need to be there and had a good home to go back to. There was more than once when kids as young as 12 years old on the streets were helped by other street kids to find a group home or shelter, or get fare for the greyhound to go back home.

There may not seem to be reasons for someone to be on the street to an outsider, and there may seem to be ways out, but on the inside of that life - the view outside into the normal world becomes so paranoid and so messed up, that those windows of opportunity do not exist to the street person in their own minds. Street life in itself becomes it’s own form of mental illness.

[tim314]

@Eeyore

However it is more likely that the beggar would spend the money on drugs.

@Trunk

Don’t feel bad about not giving beggars money. More likely than not, it’s going to drugs and/or alcohol.

Can anyone provide a cite for claims of this sort? I’m sure there are some statistics out there for what percentage of beggars are drug addicts. But are there any statistics for what percentage of their income actually goes to drugs and booze? (I’m not sure how one would collect reliable data on that, but if there is no reliable data it seems like a bit of a leap to say they’re “likely” to spend the money on drugs.)

It seems to me that even beggars who are drug addicts would still have to spend a decent percentage of their money on food, or else they’d starve.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Well, this post won’t answer the OP, but I’m gonna post it anyway, 'cus I’m in a rebelious kind of mood.

If you’re concerned about cash donations going towards booze or drugs, you could give fruit.

Yes, I know this sounds odd, but when someone is begging (as opposed to busking), if I have a spare fruit in my bag (which is pretty much any fruit) I’ll give it to them. Fruit is nutritious, has lots of sugar (which seems to be popular with the homeless folks around these parts) and a bit of a treat. I started doing this after the mother of one of my friends said she did it.

I dunno - then I don’t feel bad about not giving the person anything, but I know they’ll have a hard time trading a banana for drugs, so maybe they’ll eat it.

YMMV.

[Eeyore]

I’m talking from an ignorant viewpoint. If I were an expert I would not have created this thread. I now see that a beggar is likely to spend more money on food and a place to stay than on drugs. I believed that homeless people slept rough which would leave a large amount of money to be spent. I thought that the most logical place for it to go would be on drugs.

[Incubus]

The homeless people that lurk around my campus reel in $50 a day, which is more money per day than I make working part-time :eek: . They collect aluminum cans in the area and redeem them.

In a way, its kind of like a free janitorial service, since they often scavenge litter and discarded cans left lying around. Plus, they don’t panhandle- they make enough collecting cans that they don’t need to beg for money.

[Shagnasty]

@lexi

We treat addiction like an illness when it involves people we know, and we treat addicts like vermin when they are on the street or begging for help.

Exactly. I have always wanted to start a Pit thread about this myself. When many of these people get to this point, feeding an addiction can be more important than gettin immediate food from a health standpoint. They could die from withdrawal within hours or days if they don’t get more. They aren’t choosing to be this way any more.

[lexi]

Eeyore, not many people want to sleep in the rough - too easy to get rolled or mugged - but I will be the first person to admit that some money does go to booze and drugs, but from begging on the street - I’d say a pittance goes towards drugs and alcohol, after all a street person can’t really afford mounds of crack & heroin or for that matter more than a case of cheap beer in most cases.

Alice, fruit would have been nice too, it is portable and doesn’t have to be eaten right away - fruit is a great gift.

Incubus - $50 a day is pretty good if you have a place, but if you don’t you have to rent night by night or weekly from a hotel, and without a regular place to stay it is hard to save for a damage deposit. Back in 1989 - the last year I was on the streets - the most scummy hotels were between $18 and $28 + tax per night depending on the city, so a much larger portion of your money is going to pay for a place to live than if you were not homeless.

Looking back, it is totally ironic that it would cost more to have a crappy hotel room to stay in as a homeless person, than to rent an apartment.

[occ]

@Eeyore

Im talking about the type of beggars that live on the streets of New York City.

These days, you’d be surprised how few panhandlers you’ll see around the city, particularly in manhattan. Getting the beggars off the streets was part of the “quality of life” initiative by former mayor Guiliani – it also got rid of the classic NYC hassle, the Squeegee Men.

[spingears]

I was working 12 hour second shifts in a large midwestern city in midwinter during WWII. A somewhat grungy man stopped me and asked for money for something to eat. After quite a long conversation of suggesting alternatives he was offered all he could eat at a place specializing in Boston baked bread and beans. He setteled in and ate like it was going out of style. Paid for two full meals for him and left him happily working on the second meal.
Some beggars are really down on their luck or have made bad choices in life, while others are little more than too lazy to take care of themselves.

[occ]

@ageless6

Yeah,all those who are using drugs should have to wear a sandwich board proclaiming,“All my begging proceeds go to buying drugs”.

Seriously,I wouldn’t give any panhandlers who look like druggies any money at all. After all,drugs are very expensive nowadays,and I would save that money for my own drugs.

Hang on,that wasn’t serious at all.(Perhaps)

Since there isn’t any way to tell what said beggar will do with your money,you just have to decide for yourself which action will cause you more guilt.

Welcome to the wonderful,and sometimes dangerous,board.

Hehe, a common gimmick amongst panhandlers now is to draw up a sign saying something like “Need money for beer, pot, and hooker. Hey, at least I ain’t bullshittin’ you.”

Apparently, humor was proven to be more effective than pity.

[NadaHappyCamper]

What difference does it make to you,the giver how the gift you have given is used?What the money is spent on is not your concern.Only a person who isn’t satisfied with their life would concern themselves whether a street beggar is earning 10 or 40 or 1 dollar an hr.If you have the money and you can spare a few dollars go ahead give if you feel as though you may need the money smile and say no or say nothing.Have no expectations how the money is spen and you will not be dissapointed,if the person buys drugs then you have still helped another human being.look at it like this,if you decline to help,it might spur the person behind you to give.There is a saying or maybe proverb, it goes something like this:Be kind to the people you meet on the way up,you will meet those same people on the way down.

[Rick]

@NadaHappyCamper

What difference does it make to you,the giver how the gift you have given is used?What the money is spent on is not your concern.

I want to take issue with this. Many years ago when money was very tight around Casa de Rick, my family and I were leaving a Target where we had spent just the money we had budgeted on just the stuff we had to have until next pay check. I had maybe $10 bucks in my wallet to carry me that week.
Anyway a 25-30ish woman came up to me and told me that she had run out of gas on the way to Simi Valley which is about 15 miles from where we were. She asked for a buck or two for gas. Having been in that situation (out of gas, and no cash), I agreed and gave her $2. This at that time would have bought enough gas to get most cars back to Simi. This might not sound like much but on that day that was 20% of my liquid assets. We loaded our stuff into the car, and it occurred to me that sometimes when cars run out of gas they can be hard to restart, and perhaps she did not have a gas can. I thought she might need a hand. So I started to look for her. I spotted her in the next row talking to another gentleman; still I did not connect the dots. As I approached from the rear, I could see that she had a wad, and I do mean a wad of money in her left hand held behind her back. Mostly $1s but I did see a few $5s and I think a $10. I would guesstimate that there was not less than $50 in that wad. At this point even thick as brick Rick got a clue. And I got pissed. I was conned or defrauded if you prefer, by her lies. She wasn’t out of gas, she was just begging money from people by lying. I didn’t (and still don’t) make enough money to give it to liars or con men/women.
At this point I lost it and here is what I told her.
“Miss it occurred to me that you might need help getting the gas into your car, or getting it started. I can see however by the WAD of cash in your hand, your current game plan is to go up the street to the dealer and buy a new car with the money you conned out of people like me. I am assuming of course that your new car will have enough gas in it to make it to Simi.
Anyway lady I just want to tell you that you have screwed the deal for everybody. You just got the last $2 I ever give anybody on the street, so I hope you enjoy the hell out of that $2 because it is the last I ever give. One more thing. If you are still here in 1 minute, I will go drop a dime on the local PD and report you.”
BTW she ran to a car hopped in and started it up and drove out.

FTR a similar con ran all over So Cal where a well dressed “pregnant” lady was out of gas and “borrowed” $10 bucks for gas to get home. She got an name and address and promised to send a check that day. One day she hit up Jack Smith, a writer for the LA Times. He wrote a column on his encounter. Within days he had about 35 people call him who had also given the “pregnant” lady gas money. None had gotten a check of course. The police busted her and in jail she gave “birth” to a healthy baby pillow. So long story short, she when to jail for running a con game.
So call me an asshole if you wish, but I don’t give money to people who come up to me in parking lots. I will give money to street musicians, as at least they are giving music back.
Oh and just to keep the record straight, the first time I saw a “What the hell, why lie, I just need a beer” sign I laughed so hard, I gave the guy a buck. He made my day.

[NadaHappyCamper]

Rick ,
Did you follow the,I just need a beer guy to make sure he bought a beer and not a hamburger? and the lady who hit you up for the 2 bucks for gas wre you more angry because she had more cash then you or because you couldn’t spare the duece?

[NadaHappyCamper]

if the beggar is buying drugs or supporting a habit perhaps you might just be saving the life of some innocent person that is NOT getting robbed or mugged by the addict because the two bucks you gave them was enuff to get fixed.

[glee]

@NadaHappyCamper

What difference does it make to you,the giver how the gift you have given is used?What the money is spent on is not your concern.Only a person who isn’t satisfied with their life would concern themselves whether a street beggar is earning 10 or 40 or 1 dollar an hr.If you have the money and you can spare a few dollars go ahead give if you feel as though you may need the money smile and say no or say nothing.Have no expectations how the money is spen and you will not be dissapointed,if the person buys drugs then you have still helped another human being.look at it like this,if you decline to help,it might spur the person behind you to give.There is a saying or maybe proverb, it goes something like this:Be kind to the people you meet on the way up,you will meet those same people on the way down.

Giving to charity is fine.
If you give your charity money instead to someone on the street and they spend it on drugs, how does that benefit anyone?
As for your ‘Be kind to the people you meet on the way up,you will meet those same people on the way down’, didn’t you notice how posters suggested giving to homeless shelters, or giving fruit? It’s not a choice between giving to beggars and not giving.

I expect Rick was angry because a criminal took his money when he was generously trying to help someone.

As for your drugs example of life-saving, suppose the addict dies from spiked drugs or starvation. How does that make you feel?

[Voodoochile]

Ive looked and looked and cant find the link anymore, but there was once a study done here in SF that found the homeless made an average of $12 an hour.

[Trunk]

@tim314

Can anyone provide a cite for claims of this sort? I’m sure there are some statistics out there for what percentage of beggars are drug addicts. But are there any statistics for what percentage of their income actually goes to drugs and booze? (I’m not sure how one would collect reliable data on that, but if there is no reliable data it seems like a bit of a leap to say they’re “likely” to spend the money on drugs.)

It seems to me that even beggars who are drug addicts would still have to spend a decent percentage of their money on food, or else they’d starve.

They can find food. There are shelters that give out free food. There are hundreds of restaurants that throw food out the back. There are garbage cans around.

There aren’t free drugs around, and heroin addicts don’t think “all right, I got to get some food in belly then I can focus on scoring.”

[ElectricZ]

One time when I was pumping gas, I had a guy come up to me with the following story: his wife was supposed to pick him up and take him to a job interview, but she hadn’t shown up. He just needed a couple of bucks for bus fare so he could make it downtown to the interview. As a rule I don’t hand out money, and something about the guy didn’t ring true so I told him no. (And for some reason when I turn down a panhandler, I’m always compelled to say “sorry.” I’m really not.)

But in this case, I was, because his story sounded pretty harsh, and if the guy was hard up and legitimately trying to get a job I should help him. I wondered for a couple days if I had done the right thing.

One week later I was eating at a McDonald’s a block or two away from where I had bought gas when I saw the guy who had asked me for money. He started hovering around the door of the place, talking to anybody who went in or left. I finished my meal and walked past him on my way out.

“Excuse me, sir, I wonder if you could help me out. I’ve got a job interview in about an hour, and I need bus fare to get downtown. My wife was supposed to pick me up and…”

I cut him off. “Your wife must really be slow. You said the same thing to me last week.”

He just said, “Sorry, man,” and walked off. I got in my car and left, and as I pulled out of the parking lot I noticed he had returned and started waiting around the door of the McDonald’s again.

I was glad that I didn’t give anything to him. There’s no telling how many times he’d pulled off the scam, and how many people gave him the cash. And it pisses me off when people try to take advantage of other people’s good nature like that. But I hate being the bad guy and saying “no” to somebody who might be in need.

I also ran into somebody who was asking for gas money at a gas station. My scam-detector was going off, so I offered to top off his tank after I was done fuelling. To my surprise, the guy took me up on it and pulled up his beater of a pickup truck and I gave him a few bucks of gas. Of course, he could be doing that every time he needed to fill up once a week, but at least I knew he wasn’t going to spend the money on beer or drugs.

EZ

[ralph124c]

A few years ago, the SF city council debated giving beggars credit card machines…so people could give them a contribution via their credit cards…anything come of this?
Also, BOSTON was going to require that people NOT give money to beggars…oinstead, you could buy chits, which the biums/homeless could ONLY exchange for food. Of course, a secondart market would spring up, in which the beares would be able to exchange their chits for cash (discounted, of course). They would then be free to head for the nearest liquor store.