I have more respect for one wrestler than I do for a whole sport of “pro” athletes. Most wrestlers are kind, caring, family men, and are probably the toughest and most dedicated people you will ever meet in your life. Read Mick Foley’s autobiography. Even if you’re not the biggest fan of wrestling, read it. It puts all other “real” sports and their athletes to shame.
That sounds a lot like NASCAR drivers, too.
“Shooting” is going off-script. The term is also often used when wrestlers start to really fight (the original context) or break character. Towards the end of WCW, the booker (the man who determines winners and losers) opened up both guns (verbally) on Hulk Hogan. With something like the Vicious/Hogan incident, Vicious made a decision and hopefully the two professionals (both known to be rather selfish) worked to get back on script and end the story the way it was supposed to. That’s what happened when Owen Hart gave Steve Austin the stinger. He ended up literally pulling Austin on top of him. With the Shane Douglas incident, Shane and Paul Heyman knew what was going to happen ahead of time. NWA representatives, however, were quite suprised (NWA being a loose confederation of different territories) and it made for great TV. These are all examples of shooting.
Jeff Jarrett was publicly fired by Vince McMahon when McMahon bought WCW. That might also be considered a shoot.
The Montreal incident between Michaels and Hart was known ahead of time by Michaels (he finally admitted it a year or two ago). Some postulate Hart was also in on it. Don’t feel too sorry for him…he appeared the next day in WCW earning much more money than he was in WWE.
My understanding is that WWE TV/PPV matches are very scripted, but that they have more leeway to experiment at house (non-televised) shows. Some performers are given more leeway to improvise as the match go on. According to Mick Foley, his Hell in a Cell match against Undertaker where he climbed to the top of the cage to start the match was decided as he was walking to the ring.
HHH (whom I don’t especially like) tore his hamstring or quadricep during a match, yet continued through nearly all the planned spots to the end of the match. That’s tough, and that’s not fake. The reason he’s able to continue is because, unlikely true competition, the people working WITH him to deliver a sports ENTERTAINMENT show will work around and try to protect the injury, not exploit it (although I don’t think anyone would have thought less of him for stopping when he tore his muscle).
I’d say it’s more like being a combination actor/gymnast/dancer/stuntman. That’s real. They really are doing all that stuff.
But they’re doing that stuff to pretend they’re wrestling.
I used to bet on the WCW or WWF or WWE or whatever with my friends.
We’d do the under/over by betting on how many people, in total will get into the ring during the match, not including the ref.
We’d also bet on the result. One of us would take the result that one of the wrestlers pins the other for a count of 3, the other would take any other result (some guy comes down from the ceiling, some guy runs in and smacks someone unconcious with a chair/bat/guitar/whatever, someone knocks out the ref…whatever).
You could easily convert these things into drinking games if you were that way inclined.
You’ll also notice that the refs in the WWE have an earpiece. They are getting info from the director which they can relay to the wrestlers, such as speed things up or end the match now.
There are many accidents and unplanned injuries that occur on live TV (remember the Shockmaster?). But 99.9% of the non-ring action is scripted. If the viewers see it, they were supposed to see it. In recent years there has been some blurring of this line, when some wrestlers know what is happening and others don’t. This was the case with the Michaels/Hart Screwjob in Montreal, although I’m now leaning towards it being a complete work with BH in on the whole thing.
In WCW once there was a incident with Brian Pillman and ?? where Pillman lay down and got pinned, saying “I respect you Bookerman!” The other guy (whose name I’m spacing on) was the booker (the guy who picks the winners and losers) and this was supposed to be a major shoot, exposing the inner workings of the business to the public on live TV. In fact, it was entirely a work, an effort to make Pillman look even more like a loose cannon.
?? = Kevin Sullivan. A work (planned event) turned shoot (unplanned event) was when Chris Benoit was teamed up with Sullivan’s (at-that-time) wife, Nancy (ring name: Woman) against Sullivan. Well now, Woman, who is out of wrestling, in Mrs. Benoit.
Brian Pillman was also involved in another work turned shoot. He got WCW to issue him a ‘release’ in order for him to show up in ECW, again promoting the do anything anywhere loose cannon aspect. WCW wasn’t planning on loosing Pillman, but Pillman’s plan was to get out of his contract and switch to WWE. It worked.
As a small counter to Icebrand, the extreme violence wrestling is a subset of the entire Japanese wrestling culture. However, wrestling overall is more mainstream than the US, and all aspects get more coverage. Major Japanese promotions showcase more wrestling and less entertainment, and are more dependent on ring psychology and less dependent on high spots than current WWE wrestling. (By ring psychology, I mean working against a body part for an entire match to set up a submission - like Ric Flair does with an opponents leg, only moreso).
A few more anecdotes I’ve come across:
Jimmy Snuka would barely hit opponents, which led to some early or delayed reactions. Wrestlers don’t lay into each other full strength, but they do hit each other as it helps the timing.
Upon entering WWE, Rob Van Dam got a reputation for landing potato shots (the opposite of Snuka’s feather shots). It isn’t any longer an issue.
Tables, ladders and chairs used are NOT ‘gimmicked’ (cut or otherwise specially made). The announcers table is a notable exception. Fire extinguishers and glass are gimmicked.
The distinction between the drivers/wrestlers and other athletes probably relates to the amount of time they spend climbing to the top of their respective sports (I use the term loosely in the case of wrestlers). A wrestler starting out has to fight in some pretty crappy venues (and a novice driver will have to race on some pretty crappy tracks) and sloooowly build a reputation and work his way up the hierarchy. During that time, many of these men have familes and need day jobs to pay the bills.
Compare that to some basketball prospect who gets signed right out of high school for some ridiculous multi-million-dollar contract. The young man has talent, obviously, but he knows nothing outside of the game, because he’s only 17 or 18 years old. He’s not encouraged to develop life skills or discipline in his personal habits or do anything else that might get in the way of his playing. Can there be any doubt such a man is more likely to slide into substance abuse and ruin than a wrestler or NASCAR driver?
All of it!
I love it when someone posts when they’ve only read the OP.
Telemark: The Shockmaster! Hahahahahahaha!!!
I say if ice skating is considered enough of a sport to be in the Olympics, professional wrestling ought to be too. There’s a real art to it, and even if the outcome and some of the moves are pre-determined, the injuries are real. Not only that, but wrestlers routinely work with injuries that would end the career of a football or baseball player.
BTW, I’m meeting Mick Foley at a book signing here tonight. I’m so excited!
Aesiron, I think you are giving Isabelle too much credit. I don’t think she got past the title.
Bryan, substance abuse is a problem among wrestlers. How prevalent it is among them compared to other sports or other professions is debatable. Pain killers and steroids are most common. Several careers have been ruined (such as Scott Nash and Brian Armstrong) and lives lost (such as Davey Boy Smith, Curt Hennig and Ms. Elizabeth) due to substance abuse. Plus, not all wrestlers spend a lot of time working up the ladder. The Hardy’s were wrestling under masks for WWE at around 19 years old. Many others are in their early 20s (such as Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, both sets of tag champs).
On the other hand, wrestlers stand to make more money by cultivating fans. Even the bad guys go out and sell t-shirts and signed photographs. Show attendance figures into most of their pay. Fan reaction plays a role in a wrestler’s position on the card, which also factors into pay. Wrestlers have a vested interest in cultivating their fan base, moreso than many pro atheletes.
Basically, Pro Wrestling events are exhibitions of stage combat, with a soap opera woven around them. Stage combat is not easy, especially when it’s as direct and physical as this – the wrestlers, after all, have to play it so the guys in the back of the stadium can see what’s going on even if they’re not watching the screen.
It’s fake in that these guys (and ladies) aren’t actually trying to do severe physical damage to each other, and the fights are decided according to the script – but wrestlers have to stay in peak shape, and have precise control over their movements. An inch can make the difference between a good stage punch, a bad/visibly fake stage punch, and a serious injury.
Just because The Rock isn’t actually seriously injuring people with his Rock Bottom move doesn’t mean I’d want to piss him off. He could probably fold me small enough to fit under an airplane seat. (Hmm, that might save on airfare …)
Oh, and I can say from experience that folding chairs don’t have to be doctored in any way. I was a master at “selling” getting hit by a folding chair in high school drama – it’s all a matter of hitting the chair with a body part that makes a lot of noise and doesn’t hurt much, while making it look like it hit you somewhere vulnerable like the face. I did score some ugly bruises when I had my arm tilted the wrong way though.
Being from Memphis, home of Jerry Lawler, I used to hear that the King would sometimes get pissed at some of the rookies doing something wrong in the ring and KNOCK the crap out of them for real. And that he and “Lumberjack” Joe leduke truly hated each other and would actually fight in the ring…cool huh?
I mean, I dont know how much of thats true. But you never know.
I think it’s a safe bet that wrestlers never really go at in the ring. They have too much to lose to risk it, even if they are legit badasses as many of them are. Occasionally you’ll hear about some stuff (like Steve Regal and Goldberg) but they don’t last long and the wrestlers who pull that stuff are often fired. Unless of course they are the booker.
Bryan Eckars – I think you have a fairly well-reasoned insight about wrestlers, drivers and other pro athletes. Thank you, and D-Odds, for sharing them.
I should point out that, from what I’ve heard, both in Mick Foley’s book and elsewhere, that the challenge above to go to a wrestling school is a bad idea. You see, in the culture of professional wrestling, until recently, and possibly even today, maiming a person for life was considered a good gag, in that environment. Broken limbs on purpose are a common occurance. It toughens people up, you see. This was especially common to do against people who “got into it easy.” Like people from other sports, or maybe were just really good looking. Or had rich parents, whatever.
No, I’m not kidding.
For a really disturbing point, read Hulk Hogan’s book, which is fully vetted and approved by WWE, where he makes the comment that being hurt like that is a good thing.
Maybe it’s a work, maybe I’m wrong, but I really get the impression that these schools are basically a way for the teachers to hurt people and take their money, while incidentally introducing them to some approximation of wrestling skills. It’s a really nasty darn vibe. On the other hand, I can see the reason to fake it, it keeps people away from trying to be a wrestler, increases the mystique…
Hardygrrl would know more, really. So, Aesiron, why were you suggesting that?
Notice I said legit, which wouldn’t be a fluff school where you’re given some fake diploma or a bullshit school where people are out just to hurt you.
Something equivalent to WWE’s (retired?) Funkin’ Dojo, the old WCW Power Plant, or even something like Tough Enough would work.
The only point that I was making in mentioning it is that wrestling isn’t the cakewalk that a few people in this thread are trying to make out to be. I don’t expect anyone to actually take me up on my not even half-serious challenge.
The WWE and MTV ran a reality show based on a wrestling school, called Tough Enough. 15 men and women competing for two contracts with the WWE, being trained by WWE wrestlers and trainers. A very neat show, offering a great deal of insight into the industry. Too much insight, in fact, according to some insiders.
Wrestling has a concept called kayfabe. Kayfabe is the layer of suspended disbelief that lets you believe the storylines of one person hating another, when very likely the opposite is true. You must really respect the abilities of another wrestler in order to engage in a brutal match where lives are on the line even more than usual. Anyway, in the old days, you never broke kayfabe. Never. You could be fired if you were seen traveling to a show with a wrestler that you were supposed to be feuding with. Nowadays, wrestlers go on morning talk shows, but still don’t often reveal behind-the-scenes detaisl about how booking works.
Tough Enough broke all that down, and explained in great details how moves work, how props are gimmicked (or not) and how booking and winners are decided. Even this show had its shoots, though. On one show in the third season, one trainer (Bob Holly) engaged in match with one of the finalists, Matt. Holly decied to teach the kid a lesson, and basically beat the crap out of him. He was not pulling his punches at all. The blood and bruises were real. He defended his actions by saying that that’s how it used to be in real wrestling schools. At any rate, by taking the beating, Matt ensured his place in the winner’s circle.
That’s one example of what can happen in a wrestling ring. I can’t in honesty call wrestling fake, despite the predetermined finishes.
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Justin