How much racism remains in white America?

Great Debates
41

First I’d like to say that I don’t think anyone should ever be called “racist.” If you call someone racist (even if you think they unmistakeably are), they will be offended, and offending someone isn’t particularly conducive to getting them to re-think their hateful ideas. So I prefer to think of racism that exists in institutions, policies, assumptions, etc, and that we should all be prepared to think about it in this way, without immediately assuming “racist” = “insult.” This way (I hope) people could begin to understand the subtle ways that race affects their lives and other people’s.

monstro: I would have been pissed off if I had been in that meeting as well. I think that one reason a lot of people of colour underestimate the occurrence of racism is because lots of racism happens when only white people are around. I have heard so many comments from people that never would have been made if I had been black.

Rose: wow, that study about people holding guns ! Do you have a cite for it? (Not that I don’t believe you - the results seem very intuitive! I’d like to keep it for future debates.)

Kimstu: you’re awesome. I was about to cite the job-interview study (which I saw you post last week) but here you are, with even more ! Thanks for adding some empirical data to the discussion.

BrainGlutton: I completely agree with your point about terminology. I (as a Canadian married to an African) have always defined the term African-American to refer to that particular culture which has emerged among the descendents of American slaves. Many blacks, as you correctly point out, are neither African nor American, and some African-born naturalized Americans (ie white Africans) are not black. There are commonalities, though: black people in America tend to be treated like other black people in America, so it’s not surprising that similar circumstances sometimes lead recent Nigerian immigrants into the same kind of social contexts as sixth-generation African Americans.

Also, Caribbean culture includes quite a lot of people descended from the Indian sub-continent. For this reason I maintain that if you mean ‘black,’ say ‘black.’ My husband is not African-American, nor is FW deKlerk. (I remain silent on the issue of whether the word should be capitalized - I’ve seen it both ways and I can’t decide on the importance of the distinction.)
Now.

Racism =! the belief that black people (or other people who aren’t white) are somehow inferior to white people.

Racism = the way that your experiences (which affect who you are - your personality, your job, your opinions etc) are profoundly affected by your racial origin.

If you’re black, people will treat you as if you’re black.

Imagine this: You’re walking to a friend’s party in an unfamiliar neighbourhood, and you’re not sure where you’re going. You are crossing through a dimly-lit area. Do you approach that young woman over there and ask her for directions?

How is your answer different if you are a young white woman, than if you are a young black man?

On the subject of noticing racism within ourselves: The reason I bring up the above example is because this happened to me. I was walking alone in my neighbourhood one evening and a stranger approached me. He was a young black man. As I saw him approach my heart jumped, I got nervous, I grabbed my keys in my pocket, I headed towards a well-lit area. As it was happening I knew that I was being paranoid, that he probably didn’t have any ill intentions, that I know quite well that most black men are no more dangerous to me than anyone. But I couldn’t help how I felt. So if I - whose husband is black, whose neices and nephews are black, and whose children will be black - still get that moment of apprehension when I see a strange black man approach, then how can you say that the black man’s world is no different from the white man’s?

If racism is not a problem, why do native-born white people rarely work in fast food restaurants (except as teenagers), or as janitors or maids?

Why do we see black people in other countries doing horrible things to each other, and we rarely (if ever) see white people either doing these horrible things or having them done to them? I have seen numerous dead black people in newspapers; dead white people are usually covered up or not shown at all. Why are the images of black people not sanitized?

42

It has to do with class, not race. it’s not like you see a black guy who has an MBA taking your order at Arby’s. You see people with few skills and little education working at these places. Where I’m from (the Spokane, Washington, area) it’s all white people. Where I live now (Washington, D.C.) it’s mainly Central American immigrants or black people. In any area, whichever racial group is the poorest is the group that will be working these jobs. So if you’re trying to say that racism keeps minorities from getting “good” jobs and they can only work fast food places, I think that’s inaccurate. If you’re saying racism means that minorities aren’t getting a good education, that’s debatable, but you may have something there.

43

Just to point out a fallacy that keeps being mentioned, there is currently no way of knowing whether blacks actually commit more crimes than whites. They are arrested and incarcerated at a much higher rate than whites, but that is not the same thing because the vast majority of criminals are not caught and the vast majority of crimes in the USA most likely are going unpunished. The crime rates (rates of those arrested, charged, and convicted) actually support the stance that racism is still a huge problem in the USA. Using crime rates as an excuse to judge non-whites is just that, an excuse.

An example of the problem: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm

44

That is actually a pretty good description of institutional racism. It is the exaltation or denigration of a group based on perceived race where there is not even a recognition that the race has been exalted or denigrated. It is not the result of fear or hatred, but simply of accepting preconceived notions that have been institutionalized in society. I would not even claim that the original research team members were bad scientists. They saw a real discrepancy in the numbers and drew a conclusion that society had prepared them to see. Race was a legitimate (if erroneous) subject for biologists for 200 years and it has taken fifty years to accumulate the evidence that the earlier perceptions were based on misleading cues that were too easily saped by the surrounding culture.

In contrast, deliberate racism is generally driven by fear (standard human xenophobia channeled according to perceived racial differences) expressed as either hatred or disdain. (Or by elevating one’s one perceived group in a desire to gain esteem by association.) Both forms can harm people, but institutional racism is generally not even recognized by those who operate under its influence. The correct approach to the scientists who leaped to the conclusion that “race” was the basis for the discrepancies they saw is to point out the other factors that were better predictors rather than to scream “Racist!” and condemn them.

45

Sued by whom? It’s a freakin free country!

46

I would say that they aren’t as good a scientist as they could be. I believe a key part of the scientific method is look for ways that the conclusions that you draw aren’t true.

The racist policies and attitudes towards blacks in this country are a direct result of slavery. Slavery was a deliberate, racist institution and was not driven by fear, but by economics and the idea that blacks were inferior, to whites i.e. less than human. The institution was designed is such a way to appear moral, righteous and correct. The design worked very well, people believed the propaganda and the pseudo science used to back up the premise that blacks were inferior to whites. A psychological operation of this magnitude doesn’t just go away because you say blacks are now free as evidenced by the civil rights struggles of the 1960’s almost a hundred years after slavery had ended or even today as evidenced by the sites provided earlier in the thread.

I see how you’re dealing with all of this, you save your moral indignation for racism you feel is backed by hate and kind of shrug your shoulders at the rest of it.

47

I think this very conversation is racist. Racism is what occurs when you apply simple tribalism to a greater level of the macro than it actually effects.

I lived in Bushwick Brooklyn for a while. I ate at Tina’s Diner pretty regularly. I have since moved away from Bushwick, and I never once felt out of place at Tina’s diner until the other day when I was hanging out with my artist friends who kept talking about gentrification and how not to cause gentrification in a neighborhood. My comment was to not be so self-concious of it.

I am white, I’ve lived in many black neighborhoods here in New York, and yes they are more dangerous than white neighborhoods. I know I am more likely to get mugged on the corner of Bushwick Avenue and Flatbush Avenue in Manhattan than I am to get mugged on 72nd and Lexington in Manhattan.

I don’t judge people too much based upon their skin color. I go on the vibe that I receive from them. If they are threatening or not. The same way I judge whether an animal is threatening. Yes, I am more likely to be afraid of a big black man, just as I am more likely to be afraid of a pit bull. Not because of internal prejudices as much as the fact that they ARE more capable of hurting me. I’ve pet pit bulls tied up on the street, and avoided Golden retrievers. I’ve also talked to big black men in the middle of the night alone in the street, whereas I’ve avoided shady looking jews.

I am attracted to women of all races, and I’ve had sex with and hooked up with black women, though I tend to like white women better because of the familiarity aspect. The scent is more familiar and comforting. A white girl from a low income area is going to seem much more familiar to me than just about any other strata of society. Where I grew up there were very few black people, but the split was about equal thirds between white/mexican/native american (the term native american is institutionalized racism, my family has been in America for 400 years on my father’s side and 100 years on my mother’s so I am native american.)

I find it offensive when someone calls me a Goy, Gentile or Gringo. Not that I think they shouldn’t call me that, but it will automatically color the way I view it. I’d rather people call each other the racial epithets openly than to keep them hidden away.

If someone isn’t of my tribe then they just aren’t. I belong to a lot of different underground club scenes here in New York and everyone knows everyone else. I ask people if they know my ex-girlfriends or if they know people I DJ with all the time. There are black people, jewish people, italians, russians, latinos, asian every type of person, that I would consider “part of my tribe” and I would jump in to physically defend them if I had to. It’s not about race at all. I have a lot of friends here from the Southwest which is where I grew up (New Mexico). So anyone from that area we have some affinity, including one kid who went to the same elementary school and my ex-roomate who’s father was the DA of my hometown growing up. One of them is Mexican the other is Jewish and Mexican mixed.

My friend from San Francisco, one of the Politically Correct capitals of the world pointed out that he wouldn’t have even really known what racism was if they hadn’t constantly pointed out to him that he wasn’t supposed to have pride in being white but it was ok to be proud of being black or gay when he was a child. He’s got a HUGE amount of resentment toward that.

I don’t think racism really exists for my generation in the same way it does for people even 5 years older than me. As my ex-girlfriend pointed out, that people my age (she was a few years older than me) had fewer expectations as to what a woman should and shouldn’t be than guys who are even 5-10 years my senior. She had quite a lot of expectations about what a man should be, and that included not hitting her back when she hit me. She got on my case for being a WASP all the time though she was a white Russian and would always talk up her aristocratic blood from the old country.

I believe that statistics are for the most part bullshit, and don’t reflect what’s actually happening on the street. The number of people NOT having drug overdoses FAR outweighs the number of people who are. The number of people NOT killing people far outweighs the number of people who are, and it doesn’t matter what race you are.

Most of the violence perpetrated against me in my life has been from white women. Both my mother and my step-mother were abusive, and I have a tendency to go for women who are abusive and if you want to know, yes I have hit a woman back.

I’m tired of feeling guilty for being a white male, most of your statistics on racism just purely don’t apply to me. Yes I think SOME JEWS did have a part in the death of Christ, no I don’t hate jews because of that. I think that black neighborhoods are more dangerous than white neighborhoods. I think too many people are in jail, and that the government is generally locking up a disproportionate number of black and latino people. I feel safer in Dominican neighborhoods than I do in Mexican neighborhoods. I feel perfectly safe in Greenpoint a predominantly polish neighborhood though I hear it used to be EXTREMELY violent. I know a lot of Russian kids that are some of the hardest core people I’ve ever met, and I wouldn’t want to mess with them. One of my Russian friends is famous on the streets of Brooklyn, he’s a Russian jew, really nice person to people who are nice to him, but has been in more fights than anyone I know.

The stereotypes have some basis in reality, but shouldn’t be used as a barometer for anything, because if you can’t make your own assessment as to your own safety around people, then I think you’ve got bigger problems than racism. Simply I think the idea of racism is outmoded, it doesn’t really define anything in any real sense. It’s another one of our “One size fits all” solutions that end up causing more problems than they solve.

We all like to judge people when we don’t know what they’ve been through, we don’t know where they are going, or what has affected their mood that day. There are some days when you don’t want to mess with me because I am so angry about something that has nothing to do with you that will have me itching for a source to express my rage, and if you picked a fight with me, I probably would oblige you, black, white or pink.

Why don’t you just leave my generation alone with your ideas of racism. I think the biggest gap in all of American society is the gap between my generation and the rest of American society. From ideas of spirituality, to ideas of politics. The internet has changed completely the way we interface with the world. I have had internet access since I was 15 years old. I am 26 now. I hang out with a Brahmin Priest who sells drugs to make a living for a while, then he is planning on going back to India.

I see the largest peace movement ever created in the Rave scene being quashed because of Draconian drug laws, by a system that is out of touch, or simply just doesn’t care. What I’ve been told was realistic by my parents, does not in any way resemble what I’ve seen in my life.

In closing for anyone still reading my rant, I think the fact that this discussion is even happening is the true racism and I think that for the most part, all of you are out of touch.

Erek

48

Bushwick and Flatbush in BROOKLYN

49

VERY LITTLE RACISM and a surplus of CLASSISM. Compare blacks circumstance to that of rednecks\white-trash and you will plainly see why the groups should unite. It ain’t your color its you economic circumstance. And if the whiteman has his foot on anyone’s neck than he has on my redneck too!!!

50

I suspect that very few scientists (or programmers or ditch diggers or bakers or candlestick makers) are “as good as they could be.” Everyone has blind spots and habits and preconceptions that cause them to miss small aspects of their jobs–sometimes with larger or smaller negative results. In this case, the point is that the cause of their missing one point seems to have been the institutional racism that led them to see “race” as a physical reality that explained their numbers. This does not mean that they were either bad scientists or that they were morally deficient. (That is sort of the point of recognizing institutional racism, so that we can examine decisions and identify where racism had an effect without making the false assumption that all racist actions are driven by mind-numbing hatred.)

Slavery was initially imposed on blacks in what would become the U.S. because the black slave was easily marked as a slave while a runaway white could blend in with the population. Lots of people have been enslaved, but the American form of slavery took on a racial aspect out of “practical” concerns (combined with a feeling of generalized superiority by the slavers). The earliest imported black slaves were indentured servants who were (supposed to be) freed by their employers at the end of the service. The whole “inferiority” bit was brought up later to rationalize the keeping of blacks in bondage. And while it is convenient to point to slavery as some all-encompasssing answer to everything, it does not explain why there is so much discrimination and prejudice 140 years after it ended. The current racism is based on fears that “those people,” being different, will in some way harm the racist, either by taking jobs or “contaminating” the culture. It is typical human xenophobia (fear of the outsider) expressed, in this case, along lines of perceived race.

I still have no idea what objection you are trying to raise, here. It seems that you want to place racism in some sort of box that has special meaning or application, but you do not want to incorporate it into the human situation. I have certainly not justified either racism or racist actions, so there can be no complaint on that point. I do not deny that racism exists–and have pointed out examples, here, myself. Do you have an actual thesis that you are presenting? Or did you simply take umbrage at your perception of some phrase I used and you are now stuck in “argument” mode?

51

Say what? Please explain why this conversation is “the true racism”? Your rant is all over the place and yet never addresses your clincher.

52

Pizzabrat and Monstro are racist assholes.

53

Well, I certainly think that we’ve come a long way from the days of the Klan and White Citizens’ Council. however, One thing that I have seen, and has caused me no small frustration, is the denial by whites that their skin color gives them any advantages in life.

In many ways, it reminds me of Christians that say that they are ‘persecuted’ in America. On the face of it, this is the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. But they have enjoyed their hegemony of resources- both physical and cultural- and think that any method or effort to moderate this domination is somehow cheating.

Fortunately, most do not resort to the term ‘persecution,’ (though I have heard rhetoric that comes not far short of this) but the term ‘reverse racism’ in itself strikes me as offensive because it seems that the only legitimate racism flows from white to black. That’s a heck of a conceit.

54

Per capita. <<twitch>>
Per capita. <<twitch>>

Cannot control urges. Flashbacks to weeks surrounded by statisticians. Cannot control urges. MUST GIVE IN!!!

So, just how is this “per capita” statement adjusted for potentially confounding factors. Have effects of education, income, and location been controled or modeled out? How were cohorts determined? Was this analyzed with frequentist or Bayesian methods?
Ah, I feel MUCH better, now.

55

There’s been a lot of talk about institutional racism and per capita statistics, but when it boils down to it, it’s all about how one person treats another day to day, and the racial bias that a lot of us have but don’t want to admit. Here are a couple of examples from my own experiences in the recent past. Both involve automobiles and helping people in distress. The specific races of the individuals have been omitted to try and reduce the bias of the reader. Just as an exercise, imagine each of the protagonists to be someone of your race… Then for fun, reverse it and see if it makes you feel the same way.

Scenario 1:
A car dies in the right-hand lane at a busy intersection. Guy A pulls up behind it and get out to see what the problem is. The driver, Guy B, isn’t sure what’s wrong and says he thinks he may just be out of gas. There’s a gas station across the intersection and Guy A needs to get gas anyway, so A tells B that he’ll drive over there and walk back with a gallon or two. Guy A returns a couple minutes later with a gallon of gas. They put it in, and Guy B tries to start the engine – no luck. He says it’s no real problem, because he’s called a nearby friend who is on his way to help him fix/move the car. He gives Guy A a couple bucks for the gas, shakes his hand and thanks Guy A for trying to help. Guy A goes back across the intersection to finish filling up. There, a Guy C, who is filling up at the neighboring pump sees Guy A walk back carrying the empty gas can.
Guy C: “He ran out of gas, huh?”
Guy A: “Yeah, but I don’t think that’s his problem. It still won’t start.”
Guy C: “That kind of car’s got a switch that has to be reset if it runs out of gas.”
Guy A: “Really? You ought to go over and show him. I bet he’d appreciate it.”
Guy C: He smiles, shakes his head and gets back in his vehicle. “Wrong color.” And he drove off.

Scenario 2:
Car C rear-ends Car B while stopped at a stoplight and knocks it into Car A. Driver A in front isn’t visibly injured, but was a bit shaken. Driver B and Passenger B were knocked about pretty good, but thanks to seat belts and crumple zones they got away with bruises and sore necks. Driver C was the worst off, badly disoriented with blood running out of the nose and mouth. Car B and C were totaled. Car A had a dent across its trunk, but it was still drivable. As it happened, all three of the drivers were of different ethnic groups. It was cold and rainy, and while they were exchanging information and waiting for the police and paramedics, Bystander D joined the little group. Passenger B asked Bystander D if he was in the accident, or witnessed it. Bystander D had been passing by and said that “I wanted to make sure that (Driver A) was being treated OK.” Bystander D showed no concern at all about Driver B or Passenger B, or the bleeding Driver C who was still in the crumpled vehicle. Driver A was in a hurry to leave, and also seemed very unconcerned about Driver C. Driver A said, “You look like someone I can trust to do be honest and call me,” and after getting insurance info, took off. Bystander D then drove off without saying a word to anybody else.

In both of these cases, someone who could have helped out, didn’t. Race was obviously the factor in the first case, but in the second case it was much more subtle… The attitude sure seemed like it was “I’m going to help my own. The rest of you are out of luck.” The sad thing is in both cases, somebody needed help, but instead of seeing someone in distress they saw a color instead and that decided their actions. I’m sure if you asked both of them “are you a racist” they’d deny it and be insulted that you asked them that… They might actually both be decent people on a day-to-day basis and get offended if they heard someone else relay either story to them. But I think it’s undeniable they both were racially biased in their thinking.

I know because I’ve fallen into the same trap. Sometimes it seems like a reflex. But when I do it, I admit it to myself and make a point of behaving in a more civilized way – not because I want to avoid embarrassment or be called names, but because it’s the right thing to do. I like the motto of this board – “Fighting ignorance since 1973.” The first battle is realizing it’s an internal struggle.

EZ

56

Addendum to scenario 2: Bystander D was of the same race as Driver A. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread! :slight_smile:

EZ

57

by cowgirl:

I agree that in dialogue situations, name-calling is never constructive, but if someone expresses a racist idea, then I think it is important to describe it with appropriate adjectives. To call a racist attitude anything but racist is to engage in feel-good euphemistic speak. It also promotes the misconception that KKK and Aryan nation types have a monopoly on racism, and that everyone else is in a more enlightened plane of thought. It is not “discomfort” to think that someone with brown skin and kinky hair is automatically out to get you. It is not “xenophobia” when the teacher comes down harder on black trouble-makers than white, asian, or Latino ones. Whether or not it is intentional, calling these behaviors anything but racism is a subtle way of diminishing wrongness.

But the racist label shouldn’t be hurled about indisciminately, either. But maybe LonesomePolecat disagrees.

The thing that I think doesn’t get enough attention is that racism is not just about white people against brown. It’s a societal issue, meaning that the same forces that lead whites to form biases against blacks (for instance), also influence how blacks interact with other blacks. I saw this phenomenon first-hand growing up and I have to fight against it in myself all the time. The media promotes stereotypes in the images it presents, in the kind of news stories that get disproportionate amount of air time, in the kind of celebrities that are hyped, etc. Its effects are insiduous and its presence is pervasive. None of us–white, black, whatever–come out it untouched.

What you get in the end is some people subconsciously believing their race is superior to another people. You also get some people subconsciously believing their race is inferior. The attitudes that spring out of these beliefs may be obvious (“Black people aren’t worth shit!!”) or they may be inconspicous (“Johnny the Deliquent is a good kid, not a thuggish hoodlum like Jamal the Delinquent”). Blacks and whites can both be subject to these biases. If people don’t recognize them for what they are, then it is going to be hard to counter them.

It is reassuring to see more and more white people willing to admit that not only is racism still present, but they are not immune to perpetuating it. This is not about laying guilt. It is about being honest and confronting the issue at the root. I appreciate that.

58

LonesomePolecat:

[Moderator Hat ON]

LonesomePolecat, do not call people assholes in this forum. (If you’re being sarcastic it’s not very clear.)

[Moderator Hat OFF]

59

Again, its really back to a working definition of “Racism”. I think it often (mistakenly) gets interchanged with the term “prejudiced” (and to a lesser extent “biased”). Racism is considered by many Social Psychologists to be a much more powerful/inclusive term.

Though your stories are poingant ElectricZ, what you describe would not be called “racism” by Dr. Tatum, Dr. Cross or Dr. Wellman (see my earlier post), but prejudice. (a particular negative action directed by personal perception or belief - my edit of Dr. Cross’s definition in a conversation we had)

By the currently accepted definition (by these three and others) Racism includes the entire system (actions and policies) in which one group benefits due to it’s race.

For example: though I may not, independently, be prejudice toward any particular group (treat anyone differently due to color for instance), I am benefiting in this society simply because I am a white male. Further, if my actions do not try to balance out this dominant system, I too am being racist by defenition (though anyone from my race would probably not think so).

Now sure, I’m poor and struggling and working my tutkus off (this is true), but these are really separate (identity) issues in which my status is lower than that of others (social class, economic class, etc.). But my racial class benefit remains; just think how much more difficult my life could/would be if I was black or a woman or whatever.

Many times this benefit is subtle or small (and, yes, sometimes even nonexistent), but in general our (U.S.) society was developed with this skewed aspect (not always with intent to harm others, keep in mind). This is however, the racism that remains. It is shrinking as we become more homogeneous and accepting as a society, but it is not gone.

60

That basically this conversation is SO way off base due to the very nature of it’s title, that I think coming to an understanding within the context is improbable. You want to seperate white America from Black America that’s fine but expect racism. Addressing problems with tribalism as issues of the state is where the problem is. It creates institutionalized racism that is MUCH MUCH harder to get rid of as people feel the state is being unfair and benefitting one over the other. This country is built on lies of egalitarianism, and the idea that secularism is NOT a religion, and that (culture)church and state CAN be seperate. We perpetrate our own biases on people and then claim that it’s possible to EVER be objective. Racism is about individuals as someone else brought up. It’s about how two people treat each other, and people who are alike tend to congregate. This is tribalism NOT racism. Tribalism is NOT a problem, it is an issue of something that exists. Two tribes have issues with each other as macro entities and that’s simply what exists and how it is. I don’t hate black people, but black America is NOT of MY subtribe within the larger tribe that is America. However they ARE part of my tribe within the whole that is America. I feel more in common with the black kids that live in the projects in New York that I run into on a daily basis than I feel with Bush and his cronies. I am sick and tired of hearing about “White America” it’s not about “White America”, I am just as out of the club in Washington as anyone else. I’m tired of bullshit statistics being bandied about. Let’s face it NONE OF THE STATISTICS are accurate, and we keep pretending like they have some sort of relevance to social discourse because everyone is SO afraid that their personal opinion and the way in which they choose to express it do not hold enough weight to be taken seriously. For instance let’s see who actually reads and addresses my points, and who will automatically dismiss it because I put it into one paragraph because that does not fit within the codified structure of the internet message board intellectual tribe. Racism only exists because intellectuals keep trying to define it as more than it actually is. We have personal opinions and social structures keeping a homogenized idea of equality that is enforced by political correctness that takes out all the color of being different. Differences DO exist, people RECOGNIZE those differences and like congregates with like, and it’s just that simple. There is no big question of racism, it’s not about race it’s about difference, difference of any kind. I’m tired of the imposed guilt that people feel I should own up to for being white. Well I don’t feel guilty for being white, I’ve never owned slaves, and I’ve never intentionally tried to hurt someone for being a different color than I am, that idea is ludicrous to me. YES I do notice when someone is black and I am white. YES I do think there are cultural differences between Black America and White America, I don’t think that there is ANYTHING wrong with this. So to sum up my point, when people stop lumping “White America” together, then “White America” will probably stop being such a homogenous entity. Because I am white, and this idea of racism just simply DOESN’T apply to me, as I make my decisions on people based upon my own personal biases and not some larger macro conspiracy to keep people who aren’t white down.

Erek