How NOT to end up drowning your kids...

…or “How can I avoid PPD?” I was just reading another thread [ http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=75354 ] where folks were dabating how accountable that mother in Texas is for killing all five of her children due to her childbirth-induced depression.*

Here’s my question, which someone on the other thread also raised - how can I avoid getting PPD in the first place, other than never having kids? I too am one of those people whose mood is effected by changes in the weather, for Heaven’s sake. How do I know I WON’T end up like that woman in Texas? I’d rather go through life without having any children if there’s the slightest chance I’d freak out like she did. Is there something I can look for, like family history?

Please help me figure this one out. My husband and I sometimes talk about having a litle one, but not at the expense of my sanity or that small person’s life.

Patty
*I just thought of something - can this woman still be refered to as “a mother” now that all of her offspring are dead, like a person is no longer “a wife” or “husband” once the spouce is out of the picture.

Aw, shoot, Patty, you read about people being crushed by airbags and you don’t stop driving your car, do ya? Don’t let fear of yet another media-fueled syndrome keep you away from the Joys of Parenthood. Everybody goes through some kind of Baby Blues right after the kid is born, but this new Pee Pee Dee–sheesh, wait 15 minutes and another syndrome will come down the road.

These women were all depressed to begin with, but the media ain’t gonna tell you that. Neither will their lawyers. The one in Illinois here who’s been serving life without parole for killing her kids back in 1983, who is now asking for clemency for the third time, asking for her case to be reopened, well, she was basically stuck all alone in the house with a new baby and a toddler, with no car and no friends. Sure, she was depressed. So was I, in a similar situation. But the rational response to that, Patty, is to get help, not to feed your kids sleeping pills. A normal human being, in such a situation, says to her husband, when he comes home from work, “Hey, ya know, it’s like driving me cuckoo being stuck in the house all day, how’s about buying me a car?” Or she calls up her own mother, or sister, or aunt, and they get together. Or she gets in touch with some church-run Mother’s Day Out program, or some domestic violence toll-free number, or even just the Salvation Army, for heaven’s sake, and asks for help. “Hey, I’m like stuck in the house all day with these two babies and I’m really getting depressed by it. Can anybody help me?”

Relax, Patty. If you’re a halfway normal human being going into the pregnancy, no post-partum hormonal storm is going to “make” you kill your kids. it’s not like an infection.

(Although, come to think of it, insanity is infectious–you get it from your kids…) :smiley:

…and so I guess what I’m saying is, if you’re already clinically depressed going into the pregnancy, then you’ll just know to watch out for extreme Baby Blues, right? It’s like being a diabetic or an epileptic having a baby. And you’ll be under a doctor’s care. And the people around you (mainly, your husband) will know you have problems with depression, and they’ll all keep an eye on you.

And you won’t allow yourself to be stuck in the house all day with crying babies and no car.

We’re not talking about someone whose “mood is affected by changes in the weather”, we’re talking about Clinical Depression, which is different.

Back again.

I realized I probably ought to produce a cite for my statement that they were all already depressed, but I couldn’t find one, it’s just my gut feeling. But I did find this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/metro/chicago/article/0,2669,ART-52619,FF.html

See my point? She was depressed for months. And I found myself wondering, “Where the heck was her family? Where was her husband, for one thing?” And not having a car I can understand, but no phone?

I’m visualizing myself, trapped in a house with crying babies, no phone, no car. Do I feed them sleeping pills? No, I walk down the street and knock on doors until I find either someone to interact with and possibly help me, or someone with a phone I can borrow to call for help. What would be your response to that situation?

I don’t think you have anything to worry about, okay? :wink:

I think DDG is absolutely correct. You prepare yourself by having a good support system in place and by knowing the signs of depression so that if it does affect you, you and/or your SO will recognize what is going on and get help.

You can also improve your chances for an easier birth and an easier recovery by working on getting and keeping yourself as healthy as possible, even before you try to conceive. Good nutrition plays a very strong role, for instance. A strong, healthy woman will give birth more easily than one who has deprived herself of the nutrients she needs, and she will also recover much more quickly. A woman who has been physically active and has prepared her body for giving birth (by squatting and doing other pregnancy-specific exercises) can expect to have an easier time than one who has not prepared. Paying attention to your emotional and mental health and having a supportive partner will improve your odds immensely.

Even if you have (or feel you have) a tendency toward depression, you can make sure that you and your SO are fully educated as to the signs of depression and are prepared to get help if you need it. I had my first serious bout of depression after my second child was born. I didn’t understand what was going on, and didn’t get help until I had a full-blown panic attack when he was 9 months old.

I weaned myself off my meds before getting pregnant again. I find that the hormones released by pregnancy and nursing are sufficient to keep me well. My daughter weaned at 15 months, and at 18 months I was on meds again. I went through the same process to have my fourth, but I am pleased to say that, while she weaned almost a year ago, I am still med free. For me, 5 miles a day on the treadmill and a large garden (sun, fresh air, and-in the winter-grow lights) have been the key.

You should also notice that this woman who killed her five children because of her PPD had suffered from PPD after her fourth child. Despite this, she and her husband went ahead and had a fifth child (and apparently with no particular preparation).

warning anectdotal alert

In addition to making sure you have supportive folks around, make sure you have a good doctor as well.

In May 1984 my son was born (c-section after very difficult pregnancy). In July 1984, I went back to work. In August 1984, I was layed off. In Septemeber 1984 my dad was in the hospital and my mother suddenly died. In November 1984, my husband started yet another extra marital affair. In December 1984, my father moved his girlfriend into our family home. In March 1984, I cashed my last unemployment check. In April 1984, my husband announced he was leaving, I could ‘have’ the 400 in our savings account, one of the two cars that were in my name and 35 per week in child support.

I found myself on one side of the child gate pounding a saucepan into the lid while my son stood and cried on the other side of the gate. I picked up the phone and made an emergency appointment with my family doctor (well, the office, since it was his day out).

I went there, told the other doc that I was ‘loosing it’ and didn’t have that luxery, since there was an 11 month old very active boy relying on me. I told him all of what had happened to me in the prior several months. He patted me on the knee, and said that I should ‘buck up’ and that these were just ‘life’s events’ that I needed to deal with it.

I started crying and refused to leave. They decided to call my own doctor at home and ask him. He told 'em to shut up and give me some anti-depressants. They gave me a script for 5 pills. A year later, I still had 3 left.

Every time I hear about another mother getting to the end of her rope, I think of that time, and think of how lucky we were. I hope that after such an event like thr one in Texas, no mom will ever have to have some one just pat her knee and say ‘there there dear’ again.

For a wealth of information about PPD, please check out the the website for ‘Postpartum Support International’, a not-for-profit organization. I mention this not only because my mentor is the President-elect, but also because [incomprehensible layout aside] it’s one of the best repositories of information on PPD causes, prevention and coping strategies on the 'Net.

PSI: http://www.postpartum.net

I think it would also be good to get some support for when you bring the baby home. The first 8 weeks can be absolutely brutal, whether you have ongoing problems with depression or not. Accept help from anyone who offers (assuming, of course, that said ‘helpful’ people aren’t the types who are going to make you feel inadequate and unsure of yourself). Whatever stolen moments of sleep or opportunities to shower or to feel caught up on laundry which result from this aid can help your psyche immensely. My officemates brought dinner to me every night for a week – pardon me while I reach for a tissue because this still makes me sniffle – and the magnitude of the time it bought us is beyond words. I didn’t ask my mom or MIL to come stay because I had all these ideas about being “independent.” Ha, if I had to do it over, I’d have booked them for as much time as they could stand.

What I’ve heard about PPD from women who have suffered is that their kids were not in danger. Mom may have not felt as bonded with them, and she may not have been as attentive to their needs when she was in the throes of it, but PPD where the child ends up dead is rare as far as I can tell. Not that I am saying this makes the condition trival–I’m just saying your fears of doing something monstrous to Marvel Jr. can probably be laid to rest.

I agree with the others that some degree of PPD happens to most mothers shortly after giving birth. Having an emotionally supportive and attentive SO, extended family and friends is a necessary and important part of parenthood and especially vital to coping with PPD. The link provided by flawdlogic is a great source of information. Your best source of information may be your personal physician, if you have a good rapport with her or him. Additionally, I would like to recommend either of two books, A Mother’s Tears : Understanding the Mood Swings That Follow Childbirth by Arlene M. Huysman and This Isn’t What I Expected : Overcoming Postpartum Depression by Karen Kleiman, Valerie Davis Raskin.

True postpartum depression is NOT about not wanting children or being angry with them. It is not about not loving your children. It happens even to loving mothers who desperately want and anticipate the arrival of their babies.

In the above quote you seem to be talking about “this woman” in particular. However, just in case it was a general remark about women whose children have died, let me assure you that mothers(and fathers) of children who have died feel very motherly (and fatherly) towards their deceased children. The love does not die just because the child died. I ache everyday for the sound of my childs voice, for the feel of his warm, soft arms around my neck, the icky sticky touch of his hands after candy, the distinctive scent of sunshine in his hair after playing outside. I feel no less a mother now, years after he died, than I did the day he was born. Yes mother’s are mother’s even when a child dies.
Still trying to help find a cure,
Abby

If I may respectfully disagree with DuckDuckGoose…

I can recall two patients that I’ve seen this year (out of no more than 20 or 30 postpartums I’ve done) who had no prior symptoms, relatively easy deliveries, and great social structures, and still had severe depressive symptoms a few weeks out from the birth. These women both couldn’t understand why they were crying all day during what should have been one of the happiest times of their lives.

What I tell prenatal patients is a lot of what was said before–get your social structure in place, etc.–and that if you are still feeling depressed two or three weeks out from delivery, tell your doctor. First, he can help identify stressors and suggest ways to alleviate them. Second, he can prescribe antidepressants (SSRI’s–Prozac, Paxil, etc.). I know a lot of people don’t like to throw drugs at depression, but the fact of the matter is that they work in the right situation, and they frequently help with PPD.

Don’t look at the woman in Texas as a good example of PPD. My OB/GYN text says that while 50% of postpartum women have mild depression (“baby blues”) and 10% meet the criteria for PPD, only 1 in 2000 have intense depression with suicidal ideation. Homicidal ideation would have to be much less common still. I can’t imagine any shrink saying that her actions were totally attributible to PPD, or that she didn’t have any psychopathology before.

Dr. J

The only reason my son will be celebrating his 21st birthday in a few days time is because there came a day during his infancy when I simply refused to accept being patronised and patted on the head and given paedatric sedatives for him - I knew with absolute and chilling certainty that if someone didn’t help me instead of telling me everything would seem different tomorrow, I would hurt him.

I absolutely refused to leave my counsellor’s office that day - within a couple of hours we were found “social admission” beds at the nearest major hospital. We stayed there for a couple of weeks, and while things were still very rough for a couple of years after that, I never felt that same fear again - because I knew there was an alternative to hurting my child.

And I guess the moral of the story is that if you ever do find yourself feeling that way, don’t accept platitudes - even if you have to call the police and tell them you’re about to hurt your child. Support is everything when you’re in that headspace - don’t ever be afraid to seek it if you need to.

I am not a doctor, much less a psychiatrist or psychologist. Neither am I female. I have, however, had direct experience of what it’s like to have a wife with postpartum depression, and of the difference that a doctor who specializes perinatal and postpartum depression can make.

Because my wife had been mildly depressed at various times through her early adult life, a doctor who knew her fairly well prescribed Paxil (an SSRI anti-depressant) for her a few years before we got married. It helped a lot, but the side effects were more than she wanted to continue dealing with, and in any case our intention was to start a family as soon after our marriage as possible (we dated for eight years before our wedding). Since there was (and still is) relatively little clinical evidence regarding possible complications from use of Paxil during pregnancy and nursing, the recommendation has been to stop use of Paxil if you’re likely to become pregnant. She did so, and after a brief but unpleasant withdrawal period did quite well.

Because of this history, and because hers was an extremely high-risk pregnancy (because of some structural abnormalities with her reproductive system), her OB/GYN referred her to a psychiatrist who specializes in perinatal depression (indeed, is one of the leading researchers in the field). She saw him a couple of times before our son was born, and regularly thereafter for a year or so as part of study he was conducting, and has continued to see him occasionally thereafter, particularly after the birth of our second child.

What I liked best about his approach was that, while a strong believer in medication where appropriate, he does not regard it as sufficient in itself. He’s quite ready to prescribe SSRIs or other anti-depressants when they are, in his judgement, called for, but he also insists on his patients understanding the nature of depression in general and perinatal depression specifically, and provides a great deal of guidance on cognitive strategies, either alone or in conjunction with medication, that can be effective in controlling depression. Early on, he had my wife read This Isn’t What I Expected by Kleiman and Raskin (mentioned above), helped her to recognize the precursors of a depressive episode, gave her recommendations on eating and sleeping habits, etc. Because she was intensely committed to breastfeeding, she wanted, if at all possible, to avoid going on medication again, and has managed to do so for over five years now, even through some fairly serious depressive episodes after the birth of our second child.

More than anything else, I think it has been the knowledge that someone besides me was available to help her deal with her depression, and that even if it got much worst than it had there were still additional possibilities for controlling it, that has kept her on a fairly even keel through that time. There have been times when both her doctor and I felt that she’d have been better served by resuming medication, but so far she’s managed to cope without it, and now that our daughter is two years old and is weaned, if things got really bad I think she’d be more willing to give medication another try. I especially do not want to give the impression that I’m saying that since she’s managed without SSRIs or other drugs for so long that anyone else should be able to do so; in her doctor’s opinion, there are clinical situations where it’s perhaps the only strategy that will provide enough initial stability for the other techniques to be of any use, and I’m convinced he’s right.

My wife has said on several occasions that the biggest benefit that the medication and regular consultations with a psychiatrist who specializes in this field have had for her has been that they allowed her to see that it is possible to control depression, that there are alternatives to being depressed once an episode starts. Before, she felt that there was nothing she could do about it; now she knows better, even if she chooses not to use all of the strategies that are available. That knowledge alone has made an enormous difference for her, but by itself it’s not enough for everyone who’s fighting depression.

I have to comment, though, that it may be difficult to find the right doctor, particularly in more remote areas. I’ve seen plenty of otherwise competent doctors (especially GPs and OB/GYNs who are not specially trained in this area) drop the ball completely on perinatal depression – some of them in dealing with my wife, some in dealing with other women of our acquaintance. For any woman who’s dealing with this or thinks she might be susceptible, I’d urge continuing to ask for referrals or seeking out different doctors on her own unless the doctor shows a solid grasp on the symptoms and strategies for dealing with them. Unfortunately, for a depressed person with a sense of hopelessness about her situation, that’s a difficult thing to do. Every time I hear about a situation like the one in Houston, I’m grateful that we were fortunate enough to find a great doctor and that my wife has been able to cope. I’m also grateful that if either of us began to think that she was no longer able to deal with things, we’d know exactly where to turn for help.

Passing along a little rumor-mongering here. Don’t take the Texas case too literally. The media is definitely not telling the whole story. The wife of a guy at work has a coworker that is one of the neighbors of the family in question. (Friend of a friend story - urban legend brewing?) Consider this is a family with, what, 6 children in 7 years, and they wanted more (8 or 9 was reported in the news). The media is (responsibly?) not mentioning other facts, such as they were ultra-conservative christians, and the father is somewhat of a bigot. I certainly don’t know details, but laying this purely on PPD is a very unfair representation. There were issues beyond the PPD. We will see if they come out.

I must agree with doctorj I’ve treated women with PPD, some after I delivered their baby. My wife had a mild case of it, and you can have all the great support in the world, no previous history of depression or mental illness at all, and still have a terrible time with it. These women frequently need help in the form of both counseling therapy and anti-depressants. And these are just the ones with PPD, not with Post-partum Psychosis, as apparently the woman in Texas may have.

Whenever I hear of someone telling these individuals that they’ve got to buck up and get with the program, and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, I just want to cry. If I had a diabetic patient, I wouldn’t yell at them to act their age and stop running such high blood sugars, what are they, irresponsible slackers or something? I’d teach them about diet and exercise and medication to help the condition. If they know what they should do for the problem, and still won’t do it, then we can start getting into personalities.