How racist is America?

[Waxwinged]

I think that these days, the large problem in the cities is socioeconomic as much as racist.

(From an admittedly anecdotal example of living in an old, swiftly gentrifying Southern city- the poorer residents get pushed out by the yuppies and have plenty to say about that. The younger poorer long-term residents actively go to the new wealthier areas to rummage through cars/mug people/etc, resulting in overzealous neighborhood watches and homeowners installing security cameras by the dozens. The new folks happen to be middle to upper-middle class whites, and the old folks happen to be lower to middle class blacks. Resentment all around abounds.)

[Quartz]

@GreenWyvern

I can tell you that racism is far worse in America than in South Africa.

I’m amazed to hear you say that. From all I’ve read and been told, outside tourism, it’s very dangerous to be white in South Africa. Especially being a farmer. White people are essentially living on borrowed time, just like Zimbabwe.

[monstro]

@Wesley_Clark

Fox news treating the Bundy clan as heroes for standing up to the police, then calling on the police to be more authoritarian when dealing with black people.

Conservative whites calling for government surveillance of Muslims because muslims are sometimes involved in terrorism, while ignoring the fact that white right wingers are considered by law enforcement to be the biggest terrorism threat in the US.

Or conservatives who bang the “oppressive big government” drum when it comes to their 2nd Amendment rights. But they are the first to wave the “Blue Lives Matter” banner when that same government is caught brutalizing or killing people of color for exercising that same right.

[Barbarian]

@Quartz

Really? People are just fine with calling white people - particularly men - apes when they’re big. And they’re fine with NCOs calling troopers apes. And no one complains when the verb ‘aping’ is used.

And in those contexts people are being called gorillas or apes specifically because they are large, muscular men.

If Michelle Obama were a powerlifter you might get away with calling her an ape, but given the history of black people and racist insults in the U.S., only someone extremely ignorant or deliberately racist would do so.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@astorian

The problem with the question “How racist is America” is that it never asks the three most important words in the English language.

COMPARED TO WHAT?

Those aren’t really very important words when talking about America. We’re supposed to be exceptional, the shining city on the hill, etc.

[astorian]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Those aren’t really very important words when talking about America. We’re supposed to be exceptional, the shining city on the hill, etc.

Nonsense. Those are ALWAYS key words in discussing ANYTHING.

[GIGObuster]

@astorian

Nonsense. Those are ALWAYS key words in discussing ANYTHING.

I call your argument here a “Susanita” one. From an Argentinian classic Mafalda comic, that character could be described as a Trump like one in regards to discrimination, one argument she had was how good she felt by comparing herself against how bad people were against others in other countries.

Mafalda pointed out that that is not how this works, one has to compare ourselves with people who are better, I have seen reports mentioning places like Argentina, Brazil and the USA as the least racist, the point for me is that we should be preventing a degradation of the progress that others around the world have noted.

The choices Trump is making now are not only telling Americans that we are choosing the worst kinds of dividers but he is telling the world that we will now allow bigots to set policy.

[GreenWyvern]

@Quartz

I’m amazed to hear you say that. From all I’ve read and been told, outside tourism, it’s very dangerous to be white in South Africa. Especially being a farmer. White people are essentially living on borrowed time, just like Zimbabwe.

I don’t feel insecure here at all. There have been a few incidents on outlying farms in the past, but that’s much reduced now. Basically, that’s just scare-mongering.

In general, South Africa is doing very well indeed. Some actual facts and figures: South African economy: 85% larger in real terms in 2015 than 1994

Real GDP per capita: 33% higher in real terms in 2015 than 1994

Disposable income: 44% higher in real terms in 2015 than 1994

Inflation: 4.8% in 2015 compared to 9% in 1994

Budget deficit: 3.9% of GDP as opposed to 7.1% in 1994

Blacks living in poverty: 1996 - 51.8%, 2015 - 19.9%

Murders rate per 100 000 population: 49% decline from 1996 to 2015

The reason that tourism is booming so much is that tourists feel safe and have good experiences.

[Algher]

@bobot

Yes, absolutely, undeniably. Of course, there are degrees. “Hang 'em from a tree!!” vs. “Deny him/her a job due to the funny sounding name.” How to quantify it? Hell, I don’t know. But it’s there for anyone with open eyes to see.
White men, fill in this blank: I feel (blank) about my daughter falling in love with a Black guy.

White male here - my son is dating a girl
of a mixed race (Asian and Hispanic). My only concern is keeping his racist grandfathers on a leash.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[MrDibble]

@Quartz

I’m amazed to hear you say that. From all I’ve read and been told, outside tourism, it’s very dangerous to be white in South Africa.

Bullshit

Especially being a farmer.

Jesus H Christ, this shit again?

[astorian]

@GIGObuster

I call your argument here a “Susanita” one. From an Argentinian classic Mafalda comic, that character could be described as a Trump like one in regards to discrimination, one argument she had was how good she felt by comparing herself against how bad people were against others in other countries.

Mafalda pointed out that that is not how this works, one has to compare ourselves with people who are better, I have seen reports mentioning places like Argentina, Brazil and the USA as the least racist, the point for me is that we should be preventing a degradation of the progress that others around the world have noted.

The choices Trump is making now are not only telling Americans that we are choosing the worst kinds of dividers but he is telling the world that we will now allow bigots to set policy.

I don’t know that a good way of rating relative racism exist. Regardless, the stats you’ve seen suggest that the answer to "How racist is the US"is “Not very.”

That’s GOOD news, isn’t it? That should make everyone happy. ESPECIALLY liberals.

But no. To the left, it’s still 1896, and the Klan is still omnipresent and omnipotent.

[igor_frankensteen]

Actually, it is neither a matter of answering “compared to who?” OR of measuring ourselves against some other “nice” country. Both ideas are self-defeating.

What we have to compare ourselves against, is OUR OWN IDEALS. Are we more or less racist that we think America should be, not are we nicer than a theocracy, or worse than some nation with no appreciable mix of “races” to deal with.

What should WE be, based on what WE think is right.

As for me, I know we are better about racism by far, than we were when I was a child. When I was first entered into public school here, they were still segregated. They stayed that way for six more years, and then suddenly everyone was thrown in together overnight. Those were difficult times, for a lot of reasons.

The biggest problem I see right now, has been purposely built up for quite a while now. Certain politicians and other agenda-driven people, have been carefully encouraging what I like to call “transference of anger” to take place. That is, while not expressly supporting racism, they have been strongly encouraging racISTS, to claim that some other facet ("it’s culture, not race!) is driving them to make blanket negative statements against other Americans. These same people have linked racism and sexism to economic policy, to social programs, to tax policy, and on and on. All fully aware that they ARE purposely encouraging racism and sexism (because they refrain from pointing it out even when it’s blatant), but pretending to be completely egalitarian, and dedicated to “equality” for everyone.

They have unfortunately been helped tremendously, by people doing a transference of their own, going the other way. Anyone who CLAIMS that racism is the cause of a problem, when there is no evidence that it is, plays right into the hands of those who want to pretend that there is none.

What has been particularly shameful, to me at least, is that racists of one kind (anti-black) have been making alliances with racists of another kind (anti-white), in order to make progress on entirely NON race-related concerns. Such as allying racists who despise each other, together against a common enemy to both: sexual orientation issues.

What’s shameful isn’t that they’ve been trying to do this transference trick. What’s upsetting, is that hey have been tremendously successful at it.

[Barbarian]

@astorian

I don’t know that a good way of rating relative racism exist. Regardless, the stats you’ve seen suggest that the answer to "How racist is the US"is “Not very.”

That’s GOOD news, isn’t it? That should make everyone happy. ESPECIALLY liberals.

But no. To the left, it’s still 1896, and the Klan is still omnipresent and omnipotent.

If your only metric is that people aren’t being lynched, you’ve got a ways to go.
As was pointed out upthread, racism means a lot more than open violence.

[Gyrate]

@Barbarian

If your only metric is that people aren’t being lynched, you’ve got a ways to go.
As was pointed out upthread, racism means a lot more than open violence.

And when one has to go to the extreme of setting the bar at “The Klan is omnipresent and omnipotent” in order to get around the fact that the Klan is currently both very present and disturbingly potent, it doesn’t really help the argument either.

[Quartz]

@igor_frankensteen

What we have to compare ourselves against, is OUR OWN IDEALS. Are we more or less racist that we think America should be,

That’s a wonderful line.

[coffeecat]

I just had a look at Conservapedia, which the SDMB would have you believe should be a hotbed of blatant racism. I found everything from Obama’s a Muslim to denial of Einstein’s relativity, but not racism. I think overt racism is fairly uncommon. I think what’s a lot more common is unconscious racism, the kind of thing that makes a cop, with only a fraction of a second to decide, “instinctively” fire on a black suspect, when he would have spared a white one.

[GIGObuster]

@astorian

I don’t know that a good way of rating relative racism exist. Regardless, the stats you’ve seen suggest that the answer to "How racist is the US"is “Not very.”

That’s GOOD news, isn’t it? That should make everyone happy. ESPECIALLY liberals.

You really don’t know me really well. And many liberals also.

I’m on the record of pointing out that many conservatives are not racists, unfortunately the ones that are not did not mind getting the support of a good number of the racists to be one factor that got Trump elected.

And no, many racists of today do not need to belong to the Klan. Sheriff Joe Arpaio did not need to belong to the Klan to be indicted for his racial profiling and other abuses of power. It was no coincidence that Trump joined Arpaio to the hip and the media failed spectacularly by not demanding Trump to repudiate Arpaio during the election.