How responsible am I for how other people feel?

Great Debates
1

A basic lesson we learn as social creatures is to not be selfish or inconsiderate of others. In particular, we are taught to consider other’s feelings. Fine, at least up to a point. But if the person in question is neurotic or otherwise screwed up emotionally, how far are we supposed to accomodate them before finally throwing up our hands and saying “fuck you”?

It would take too long to go into details (as well as make this post more suited for IMHO then GD), but basicly I am getting fed up with an acquaintance of mine. At first I thought it was just me, but my wife also says that this person is demanding, oversensitive, and totally self-oblivious.

Note that this post isn’t just necessarily about personal relationships. For example, if a woman feels “threatened” or “harrassed” by a man, is the fact that she feels that way, in and of itself sufficient to establish that she is being threatened or harrassed?

2

I have to wonder where people have gotten the idea that they have the right to not feel offended or threatened, If you find what I’m saying to be so offensive or threatening to you, don’t listen. (By “threatening”, I don’t mean a physical threat like “I’m going to harm you” I mean somthing that people find threatening to their beliefs and whatnot like “christianity is a crock of shit”)

3

You are not responsible…at all. Being supportive and polite makes life easier for yourself because people are polite and supportive in return. However, in some rare cases (such as the one you describe), being polite and supportive results in greater discomfort than you would have experienced if you had not been supportive. Thus, you should slowly withdraw support so as to avoid conflict. If you say “fuck you” you will create conflict (if that doesn’t bother you then I suppose there is no harm in it), but if you slowly pull away from the person you can probably make a silent exit from that person’s life forever without creating an ugly situation.

If you notice I am looking at this from a completely selfish point of view. I know you said that we are taught to avoid being selfish, but that can create problems (such as letting people walk all over you). I find that all behavior is easiest to understand if you look at it from a selfish point of view because I believe that all behavior is selfish. Every “selfless” act committed comes with personal gain (usually in the form of feeling better about yourself). So don’t feel bad about acting selfishly, just remember that in most cases (although not this one from what you describe), being supportive can be beneficial to you because the person may be supportive in return (should you need it) and the person will most likely be grateful (which could aid you in the future).

4

The Devil’s Dictionary describes “selfish” as (paraphrasing) “Not caring for other people’s selfishness.”

Derive from that what you will.

5

feeling responsible for other people’s feelings is a disorder called “co-dependence”. It is not a healthy trait. Personally I find I cannot control other people; if I can control my own bladder, then it’s a good day. I try to act responsibly, and other people can deal with it; if my actions are not appropriate, or hurt someone else, then I apologize and make amends. Note that I said my actions, not someone else’s interpretation of what i was doing or thinking.

Not rocket science, but it’s been working for me for quite a few years now.

6

My basic outlook on life is that people suck until they prove otherwise. I don’t go out of my way to be rude or otherwise make people uncomfortable, but if they get offended by something I do or say I don’t really care, unless it’s someone I care about (my fiancee for instance). If I run into some self centered asshole who won’t leave me alone, I don’t have any problem with being an asshole in return if I think it will do any good, but it depends on the situation.

7

Lumpy,

Whatever psychological or neurological disorder this woman has, are you responsible for it? Did you torment her in the schoolyard or drop her on her head?

If the answer is no then you’re free to end the acquaintance.

8

If you care about this acquaintance’s suffering, you might be doing them a favor by encouraging them to develop a thicker skin. That probably wouldn’t involve throwing up your hands and saying “fuck you”, though. It might involve making clearer what you consider your boundaries of acceptable behavior to be. Perhaps, “I find it disconcerting when you X Y Z”.

Hm. Maybe that’s not so hot. Someone versed in therapy-speak might be helpful. (I myself get my social interaction tips from the column Ask Isadora. :slight_smile: )

9

I would say, very simply, that compromise is the best way. You are less likely to hurt them, and if they are told that what they do is irritating, perhaps they will stop.

10

Or if his/her behavior is both annoying and self-defeating (as neurotic behavior so often is) you might gently suggest counselling. At worst you create a lasting rift between the 2 of you (and what do you lose by that?) at best, you help them out and get them out of your hair all in one fell swoop.

Seems like a plan to me. Just wait till they do something especially absurd and say, “You know, we’ve been friends a long time, and I’m saying this because I really care about you… have you considering talking this stuff over with someone else… you know, like a professional counsellor?”

11

I used to feel completely responsible for everyone else’s happiness. That’s what drove me into Studying social work. Once I started though, I realised that You Can’t Help Everyone. Lots of people go through a period of their life where they are depressed, dependent, neurotic and selfish. I know I did a while back, but I got over it. Most people do. I suggest you treat them normally. When they begin talking about how bad their life is, there are some things that you should avoid:

  1. pitying them: It’s what they really want - acknowledgement that they are right when they think that their life is so bad. That just compounds the problem because it makes them feel justified. (eg Them:“no-one likes me” You: “Oh, you poor thing…”)
  2. directly contradicting what they say: this just makes them feel that you don’t care or understand and that their feelings are invalidated (eg them:“no-one likes me” you:“Of course they do, don’t be silly.”)
  3. Hi Opal. (don’t think I’ve ever done that before…)

Something that you really should do is set some boundaries. Acknowledge that they’re going through a hard time and explain that you’re willing to be a friend, but not when they’re acting like this. This was the best thing that anyone ever did for me in my bad years. I learnt that people did like me and wanted me around, and even though I felt a certain negative way I wasn’t allowed to act on it. Soon, acting in a positive way affected my feelings till I felt good too.

If things get really bad, however, just walk away. It’s good of you to help them when they’re in need, but it’s not all about them. You feel like shit, but it’s in your interests and theirs. I lost a few friends before I got better, and I’ve walked away from a few people since.

12

I don’t know Lumpy, and I don’t know the person that vexes him, so I will try to steer clear of offering specific advice to him. NONE of us are qualified to do that. Instead, I’ll stick to very general advice on this general question: “Shouldn’t I be allowed to say exactly what I think? And is it really my problem if that hurts somebody else’s feelings?”

My GUESS is that Lumpy is basically a nice guy who prefers to endure a lot of B.S., rather than hurt somebody’s feelings. All of us can relate, to one degree or another. We ALL have relatives or co-workers or acquaintances who annoy us, and we ALL have to fight the urge to tell them off. Most of the time, we bite our tongues, and try to be polite. I suspect that’s what Lumpy does most of the time.

But like most of us, Lumpy doesn’t WANT to be nice! It’s HARD to be nice! It sure would be great to be a jerk, to call that person all the names you’ve WANTED to call him, to tell him to stay the hell away from you. In short, there are times when all of us would LIKE to be real pricks.

And I gather from the OP that Lumpy is asking our permission to be a prick.

Well… obviously, I have ZERO power over Lumpy, but I withhold my permission. It’s NOT okay to be a prick, even though I KNOW it would feel great!

The following spiel is NOT directly related to the OP, but it needs saying: FAR too many people today take the line that “I’m just being honest- if people CHOOSE to be offended, I can’t help that.” It seems that nowadays, people say all kinds of mean, cruel things. And when told they’ve hurt someone, they don’t offer the usual “I’m sorry” apology- they use weaselly pseudo-apologies like “I’m sorry you feel that way.” As if their cruelty and the other person’s feelings are unrelated.

When you say things you KNOW are going to hurt people, and you do it for no other reason than to feel good yourself, that’s mean and selfish. Don’t do it.

Are there times when people may have to say potentially hurtful things, for some greater good? Sure. A doctor who’s too nice to tell an obese patient to lose weight is NOT helping him. And there’s no reason ANYONE should just sit silently and nod, as an elderly relative babbles on about how _ (the Jews, the blacks, whatever) have ruined America. You don’t have to accept EVERYTHING with a polite smile.
Feel free to avoid people you can’t stand. You don’t HAVE to listen to drivel from everybody- you can walk away. If an annoying person keeps phoning you, hang up, or don’t answer the phone.

But you don’t EVER have a right to be a petty, mean, vindictive jerk, and then disavow responsibility for hurt feelings you may cause.

13

jayjay just points at his mother

Mothers are experts at the co-dependence thing. My mother especially. How I managed to keep from being an emotionally manipulative demon I have no idea.

We both have a history of weight problems. But she constantly ties her weight loss to my own. “If you’re not going to keep that diet, then I’m not going to spend money to do it myself.” “If you aren’t going to the meetings, why should I?”

She always tries to control me with guilt. “If you would just lose weight, I’d sleep better…I stay up nights worrying about you.” “I can’t sleep for worrying that you’ll die young.”

Meanwhile, she’s the worst patient any doctor on earth could ever wish never to meet. She doesn’t do anything the doctor tells her to do until whatever condition she’s inflicted with becomes so bad that she can’t ignore it. And I can’t bring myself to do the same thing to her.

How I wish I could say to her “If you’re not going to look after your health, why should I?” “If you don’t wear those compression stockings, why should I bother with the weight?” But I can’t. Because it’s wrong.

Where I managed to pick up that manipulation is wrong in this house, I have no idea.

jayjay (who thinks he may have made Mom out to be more of a bitch than she is, and apologizes for it)