Over in The Pit, I related the story of my juvenile, cowardly response to a drunken asshole. Understandably, some questioned my act and called me on it. In hindsight, I should have opened a thread along these lines.
I believe that certain people have the mindset, “I’ll act any damn way I please, and screw everyone else. What are they going to do about it, anyway?” Some might call that a criminal mentality. If the law isn’t around, there’s no reason to behave in a civilized manner.
When you find yourself confronted by grossly ill-mannered people, how do you deal with it? Walking away (obviously a better option than the one I chose) is not always possible if you’re on a bus or waiting in line for a concert, etc. Do nothing? Sure, that works, and maybe that’s probably the best answer. Is silent assent the way to go?
You could always get on your cellphone and loudly describe the assholish behavior (or pretend to) and make exclamations like, “OMG! I can’t believe this guy is actually doing this right now!” If they say anything about it, just remind them that it’s not polite to listen to other people’s phone conversations.
A while back, somebody on this message board responded to a subway evangelist. “If you don’t stop that, I will sing Broadway show tunes at you.” The evangelist shut up.
I would just like to point out something that great philosopher Kenny Rogers said "You got to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them"
Going after a drunk ex-con for being a lout might be an excellent way to get your ass kicked.
Pick your battles.
Back about 2000, my wife and I were sitting in front of this older “gentleman” on a plane. The plane was late to move from the gate and this guy started talking on his cell phone. This was no normal conversation. He was loud, louder, and loudest as the minutes rolled on. He was sitting directly behind me. The other passengers up to ten rows in each direction were turning their heads wondering what the hell was up.
I asked him to keep it down and he told me to fuck off. I am not the nicest person when it comes to that stuff so I grabbed the lever for my seat and slammed it back as hard as I could into his knees. It is hard to describe how arrogant and rude this person was but that caught his attention. He started screaming obscenities while still yelling into his cell phone. He kicked the back of my wife’s seat hard for some reason. She turned around and they got into a verbal fight while he was still screaming into his cell phone. He said things like “I am going to kick your ass when we get off the plane” directed towards my wife and then the same thing towards me. The flight attendant call buttons lit up like a Christmas tree across many isles simultaneously. The flight attendants came over, warned him, and made him hang up his phone which he refused for a while. The large man sitting next to him told the flight attendants that he felt personally unsafe by this guy and wanted a seat transfer but the plane was full. The other passengers were furious.
I have never, ever seen something like this guy. He flew off the handle randomly for people three rows over and threatened to kick all of our asses in baggage claim. He was about 50 years old, 5’3" and about 110 pounds.
I guess you should have just blown a hole through the center of the bully’s body mass instead. If the ex-con moved again, you could have always shouted “You don’t look too bad; here’s another”.
OK, sarcasm aside, the only realistic options are to either do nothing or get up and go to another car, or get up and get a cop or a conductor. Ass that he was, he was really only showing aggressive attitude, which isn’t a crime. He made no threats about hurting you; he didn’t try to rob you. Given that, if you’d decked him (or worse pepper-sprayed him), you’d be the one the cops take downtown.
Q: Who committed the assault?
A: You.
While you’re at it, think about this comfortable office conversation:
“I need the 19th off from work.”
“Why? You’ve used up your vacation days and we’re at the height of busy season.”
“If I don’t appear in court, there’ll be a bench warrant issued for my arrest.”
Is that really a conversation you want to have with your boss? Nothing quite says you are ready to climb up to that next career level quite like felonious assault charges. Admittedly, its not as bad as having to call a co-worker to find out if bail bonds are part of your benefits package, but it still doesn’t sound fun.
If you’re convicted, btw, kiss that job good-bye. If you aren’t convicted, some jobs have as part of their employment contract a morals clause where you are considered to be portraying the ‘corporate image’ 24-7 in terms of actions and conduct, so HR might just flush you anyway. Even if the court finds you guilty but just gives you parole, HR will get parole forms to fill out to make sure you are gainfully employed. Hey, its not like there are ever any gossips in HR, right? Because all it would take is just one, and then everyone in the office will think you’re the ex-con. But you could always change jobs, right? Say, remember the good old days when you could leave blank on employment applications that whole part about “Have you ever been arrested? Please provide a full written explanation”?
Right about now, walking away and having some faceless poster call you a pussy on an internet message board is probably sounding better to you. At least I hope it is. Its what a responsible adult would do (IMHO).
I have certainly learned something here. I admit I lost my temper and should have just blown the whole thing off. Also, I should stay away from the light rail.
The thing is, after hastily starting my RO thread in The Pit–and getting the responses I did–I got to wondering. I’m genuinely curious: how would others react in a similar situation? Isn’t this forum the place to ask that kind of question? The chance for any such discussion has been lost in the other thread.
And, while we’re at it, can I add a follow-up question? What line would someone have to cross to get YOU to lose your temper?
I was actually kind of amused at what you did, blondebear. Sure, it could be argued that it was cowardly, but no harm done as far as I can tell. It must have felt pretty good though.
I can’t think of any time off the top of my head that I let someone, unrelated to me, have it in public. I’ve asked people to leave my store when I was a supervisor and, in the same function, I’ve sternly instructed teenagers to pick up their mess before they left, but I don’t think I lost my temper until I was in the backroom. Then I just ranted to coworkers.
I’m not sure what it would take for me to get medieval on someone’s ass. Now, if someone said or did something untoward in front of or to my daughter, I’d probably lose it, but that’s kind of extreme. Hmmm… if someone spit on me, I’d probably get pretty mad. I have given people The Eye on the bus, but it never seems all that effective. Mostly, though, I’m a pretty nice and quiet person. It would probably take a lot to get me riled up in public.
I generally make it a rule not to engage visibly crazy or drunk people while traveling on New York or New Jersey public transportation. I’m not sure why you seemed to take it personally that this individual was ranting and raving on your train. There’s no upside and a great deal of downside.
Sigh… I am tired of this attitude that seems so prevalent today that bad behaviour should not be challenged. Behind every lout that is behaving boorishly, there is one of two attitudes: either
-complete ignorance that they are being an ass because they are self absorbed.
-WTF are all you <insert demeaning insult here> going to do about it. I can do what I want cause I can whip yo ass.
fearfull avoidance encourages both.
Imho, the correct response, should one have the cojones/hand to hand skills, is to tell the guy in question, politely but firmly, that he is bothering people, making himself look like an ass, and to can it asap. . To which he will either:
a) be startled, apologize, and slink away
b) engage in verbal bravado, then walk away thinking that “he showed you” who was boss.
c) challenge you to make him, at which point you can phone the constabulary.
d) start a fight, at which point you can now whip his ass, as you are merely defending yourself. I did mention this needed some fighting skills, didn’t I? At least, he is the one facing the assault charge.
I had one incident of this kind, where I must say I displayed more foolhardiness than brains, since my fighting skills just might allow me to prevail against a kindegartener, if she were having a bad day. On the Montreal metro, (Subway) a guy coming back from a water park starts aggressively coming onto a lady. Lady’s brother intervenes and tell the fellow to back off, in a civil way, but the brother looks like he’s all of 15 or so. . The fellow in question was about 5’7", maybe 150lbs, and wearing swimming trunks, a nipple ring, flip-flops, and a towel, so I’m reasonably sure he isn’t carrying a concealed weapon or anything. He also seemed under the influence of some sort of dis-inhibiting substance, but didn’t appear drunk. He starts screaming at the brother, telling him he’s not her brother, just a pussy who wants to be her boyfriend, and challenging the guy to prove he was her brother. I just stared at him. Eventually, he notices me, and he says, “whaddayou lookin’at” I answered “someone who wants to start a fight, I think” He says I’m the one who wants to fight. I tell him I don’t want to fight, but I will pull the emergency stop and call security if he tries something. Then, he was stuck. The only way to prove I was wrong was to not fight, so we glared at each other until the next stop, where everyone got off. If he came at me, he probably would of had me, although I had a few tricks ready just in case. Fortunately, I’m about 6’ tall, 250lbs, and a lot of my fat happens to look like muscles under clothing, so between the logical quandary and the glare of death my 5yr old has help me develop, he decided not to try it.
After that was over, some part of me was angrily scolding the other one for being so stupid, and I had the adrenaline come-down shakes for a few moments. But loutish behaviour was challenged and stopped, and nobody got hurt or in the clink. Of course, every situation is different, and has different tactical considerations, but it’s an example.
I have found that asking someone if they were born in a barn or under it usually shuts them up for a moment or two, because they will actually think for a little and try to answer the question.
Taser. Shagnasty, the point where he made physical threats is the point where I would instruct the flight attendant to tell the Captain to have Law Enforcement waiting for us at the gate, because I was going to file charges against the man.
Note that I say “instruct” and not “ask”. I would not be giving them a choice in the matter. You obviously had enough witnesses to threats of physical violence.
No matter what the end of that sentence is, it’s also assholish behavior. I assume this was kinda tongue-in-cheek, but one thing worse than a shitty situation is some asshole who won’t stop whining about it, reminding you about it every goddamn second.
Most of the time subtle derisive laughter and eye-rolling, and exchanging “looks” with other people can often shame someone into behaving more civilly. Sometimes though, I either take myself out of the situation or on rare occasions find myself reacting.
For example, my husband and I went to a baseball game. The stands were empty-ish, so we went scouting for some better seats than the nosebleeders we had purchased. Lo and behold, there is a section that is nearly empty except for about four young black men. We sat down and quickly realized why the section was empty - one of the men was cussing a non-stop blue streak at full volume. His friends were laughing but after a few minutes, when we got up and went to find ourselves some new seats, I caught a couple of them watching us leave, looking really embarrassed. If we had been in a situation where we couldn’t change seats, I might have involved security. But you’ve got to pick your battles. We were there to enjoy a day at the baseball stadium, not teach some young punk how to behave in polite society. He made himself and his friends into pariahs, and that was his problem, not mine.
