As you are someone who participates in the Pit and starts Pit threads about other posters, which category do you place yourself in?
Quite a lot of the ones who want it kept are, too. I’ve been pitted several times.
Of course, we can also flip that analogy around. People who get pitted for being racist jerks who love to come right up to the line are the bank robbers, and they’re the ones who’d love to see self defense measures (the Pit) eliminated. It’s only the bank tellers who don’t want to be left to face the bank robbers without the ability to defend themselves who are upset.
Probably. In the same way the people most incensed about crime are those who have been mugged.
And the pit has changed. I think I had been pitted two or three times in the first 15 years I was here. Now half the things I post having to do with politics result in either a pit thread or a nasty comment about me in some omnibus thread.
It’s hard to escape the conclusion that there are a number of people here who have made it their mission to make life on this board miserable for the people they have chosen to go after.
The ‘no harassment’ rule is also a joke. I have had users follow me from thread to thread snarking at me for years. I’ve never seen so much as a mod comment on it.
You reported the post of course? What did the mods say? On Discourse you get a response from the mods, whether to say “we agree there is an issue and are looking into it” or to clear off the note.
I mostly avoid the Pit, but would rather see it gone. An analogy that I see as fitting is how society deals with criminals - there are several reasons to put people in prisons, but the reasons can be roughly summarized as retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence, and protection of the public. The Pit is basically 10% deterrence and 90% retribution, so I see it as being a pretty ineffective form of justice much like many prisons are that focus heavily on retribution.
Basically, I think the ability to shit on other posters and have this validated by other posters just reinforces peoples’ animosity towards each other, and makes for a hostile environment for people with unpopular opinions. I suppose that might be one of the purposes of the Pit, though, to make the forum a hostile place for the Bricker’s, Sam Stone’s and Martin Hyde’s of the forum. For some reason, being able to ignore their posts so that they’re hidden is not enough for people who hate their posts - they need to be able to pillory them in the public square to be satisfied.
One option might be to split the Pit into two different forums. One could be for uncensored rants about general stuff like politicians, businesses, pet peeves, etc., but with the “don’t attack other members” rule that most forums have. It could be called “In My F__king Opinion”. The other forum could be for pitting and personal attacks. Maybe that could be “The Mud Pit”. It seems like it’s really the personal attacks that create the controversy. The uncensored rants about general stuff are entertaining and it would be a shame if they were restricted or eliminated as part of any changes to personal attacks.
While I’m not a fan of the Pit, I agree that there does need to be a place where Dopers can be called out for recurrent behavior or whatnot. I propose that we incorporate that into ATMB so that it becomes a milder version of the Pit - where we can still flag and identify trolls, or call someone out for a pattern of behavior.
One benefit of the Pit, for instance - that would not have worked in private - was when a few years ago we had a poster who was repeatedly posting threads like “What’s your grandmother’s maiden name?” and other questions that fit the profile of identity theft - you know, the questions like “what is your birthday,” “which city were you born in,” “what was your pet’s name”. That was a very valuable instance of catching a would-be identity thief.
This would be fine. I don’t need a place to say that “so and so is a massive fucking idiot” but I DO need a place where I can point out that “so and so has a pattern of making these kinds of weak-sauce arguments and lying about the evidence”.
In other words, I care about the content of the Pit a lot more than the ability to call people names.
Perhaps, but I’ve never been Pitted (AFAIK - of course I may be tempting fate now) and I’d like it to be changed at least.
I think @mordecaiB had the right of it is that I think those Pit grudges of course leak over - in that the Pittee and the Pitted start off new discussions at each other’s throat and that causes a far more hostile discussion that may otherwise occur. I think there some sense to make some changes to prevent lifelong grudges. Maybe the elimination of Omnibus threads against other people may help? Or the suggestion to start the forum as muted?
Yeah, DrDeth says he is opposed to Pitting other Dopers. He started a Pit thread about me. I’m curious how he can reconcile those two positions.
What precisely, was that point?
Recipe threads belong in Cafe Society?
Just for the record, I guess, since this has become an issue:
I’ve never been Pitted. To the best of my recollection, I’ve never participated in the Pitting of another Doper*. I’ve certainly never Pitted another Doper myself. I have posted in the Pit, in threads others have started, but not to attack another Doper*.
I don’t like the Pit. On balance, I think it’s a net negative for the board.
*I did once tell a poster, “Fuck you”. But that was in direct response to a post they had made in a Pit thread, which wasn’t about them. They had used “special education” as an insult. Outside of the Pit, I would have still objected, but wouldn’t have posted, “Fuck you.” I think that actually would have probably been the better course of action. So, even though it briefly felt cathartic, I don’t really think I would have been worse off if I had had to respond with a civil reply.
Except I don’t think that is the right chain of causation; it’s the behavior that originally made the pittee “worth” pitting that is the cause of rancor in other threads. The existence (or nonexistence) of the pit is not the source of the rancor. I don’t hold a “grudge” against a particular poster because there is a pit thread about them; I read and contribute to the pit thread because their behaviour drives me up the fucking wall. My irritation is then generally confined to that thread and I can usually keep away from petty sniping in the other fora.
Seconding.
Presuming, of course, that ‘this person has a pattern of making racist (or otherwise bigoted)-sounding posts’, accompanied by evidence, doesn’t get defined as “calling names.”
FWIW: I don’t think I’ve ever been pitted; I don’t think I’ve ever started a pit thread; I have posted in the Pit, I’m pretty sure not always to agree with a pitting (though I have done that) but also sometimes to defend a pitee.
I usually look at new pit threads at least long enough to figure out what people are on about, if they’re about an individual. I only occasionally glance at omnibus threads and have probably missed a lot of stuff in those. I often, though not always, skip non-poster-related threads entirely.
Which was…?
As I’ve said before – you don’t need the Pit to be hateful. Even if you get rid of the Pit doesn’t mean you’re going to see posters being more civil towards one another. Far from it.
Please report this. No mod is going to notice a pattern like this unless they, too, are following you around.
The Pitted is going to approach all conversations with those that Pitted them far more hostile don’t you think? And I don’t think Pit threads prevent petty sniping at all tbh.