How To: argue with Trumpers

I never thought the Leopards would eat my face

Do you have the relevant quote, or where in the recording it is? (They’re talking about Blacks in Russia.)

I listened to the entire podcast. The Blacks in Russia piece was the first ‘chapter.’ The Raul Rodriguez piece was the second.

And, while interesting, I’m not sure exactly what @Gozu meant by invoking it in this context. Care to elaborate ?

NPR was having another fund-raiser so I was scanning the dial. I rarely listen to this particular station but when I hit the seek button it came up. Anyway, two host talking and this is the gist of what they said:

#1: Voter suppression? How can they say there is voter suppression when they elected two Liberal Senators?
#2 Yeah! If there was suppression, the Republicans would have would have won by a landslide!

I started yelling at the radio and then took a deep breath and changed the channel. There is no arguing
with anyone who “thinks” like this. The only thing that I find comes close to getting through is when I ask for evidence in support of their claims. Rarely, if ever, are they able to come up with anything that would pass for acceptable cite on the Dope.

After being bullied and harassed by border patrol agents, the mexican-american kid became one (that’s the part about only responding to brute strength, he wanted to bully others like them…), and had 0-tolerance (aka maximum asshole) for anyone, going as far as cutting off undocumented friends and family members.

And then, when the other shoe dropped, and after “serving” his country for 17 years, this Trumper is going to be deported to Mexico, and was still saying “rules are rules” at the end, when it’s so painfully obvious how stupid and arbitrary the rules are, and how little respect they actually deserve (as much respect as Trump deserves…)

People like that are willing to die and see their lives destroyed before contemplating that they might have been a huge evil douchebag and a net negative on society for years/decades.

That is what I meant.

But regardless of all that, what were YOU thinking as you were listening to it? Was your mind not blown 3 or 4 times? Did you not curse out loud half a dozen times?

I was left friggin’ speechless, man. This segment is now seared in my mind forever as the perfect example of what humans are capable of to remain in denial. His entire life was basically the biggest strongest clearest cruelest life lesson ever but he learned nothing. I especially like the part where his wife suggests they write to Trump to ask for help since they voted for him and then immediately realize that it’s more likely he’ll deport them.

I mean come the f*** on! That is Dave Chappelle Black white supremacist level absurdity.

Or maybe I am just too innocent and naive and you’re inured to this kind of thing :slight_smile:

@Gozu

I think your take on the story is truly fascinating. While I see the elements that you thought made Rodriguez out to have stereotypical characteristics akin to a Trumper, I took other things from the story.

Whether you’re a Mexican-American in a Texas border town, in East Los Angeles, or in a town dominated by the poultry processing plant, I feel comfortable in saying that you’re still living as a minority in the US.

Same if you’re Black in Atlanta or Somali living in Rochester, Minnesota.

And most minorities (and women) will tell you that they have to be twice as good to be considered nearly equal.

I felt like Rodriguez wanted to be a by-the-book Immigration agent, not because he was working out his hormonal rage and inbred dysfunction, but because it was what was necessary to succeed in the role.

I don’t recall hearing about him crossing the lines; only toeing them. While there may have been times that leniency was appropriate in his position, he may not have felt comfortable with bending the rules, partly because of how he’s wired, but – maybe – partly because a Mexican-American doesn’t “get to” do that.

I also saw a guy who was failed by the system through no fault of his own. When he didn’t get a Green Card because of the “lie,” and was being cited for voter fraud, the system didn’t stand up for him as he had long stood up for it.

And we are told that he was totally unaware of the fraud that his parents perpetrated in his name. The system didn’t work for Rodriguez. My take is that his name being Rodriguez inured to his detriment.

And that’s relatively the converse of “white privilege.” White privilege, among other things, says that you may have lots of problems but the color of your skin isn’t one of them.

The story ended where it began: the system didn’t believe Rodriguez was in this country legally. It turned out that he wasn’t.

But he didn’t rise up against the country that – IMHO – treated him so unfairly. In fact, he seemed supportive of that system through the end of the story, though he may well have appreciated the kind of clemency that he knows he didn’t tend to show to others.

All that is to say: I do take your point, and do think it’s interesting. I just found the ‘ethnicity’ issues more compelling in his story than the authoritarian bent that you talk about.

But both can easily be true.

  1. Raul didn’t need to work for CBP, a group he well knew were bullies. Very well. But no, let’s work for them and be one of the least helpful and the most unkind possible.

  2. Raul didn’t need to vote for someone who called mexicans rapists. Forget refined politics, if someone calls my family rapists, my vote is gone. No ifs, ands or buts.

  3. Raul didn’t need to have 0-tolerance for the people he dealt with and ruin their lives. He could’ve used discretion and not ruined lives. He could’ve accepted the risk of getting fired for being too nice or bending the rules to keep contact with his undocumented friends and family. But no. Selfishness. Selfishness hiding behind rules.

If he were my brother, I would cut him out of my life. I can’t trust him and i don’t want my children to be like him.

Someone like Raul ruined my day and ruined my GF’s day and made her cry. Could have ruined much more. I take it personally.