How to deal with my house being turned into a disco several times a week!

In My Humble Opinion
21

If you insist on staying rather than moving, in addition to pushing the municipality to enforce its noise bylaws, and pushing the police to lay charges for disturbing the peace, and conducting your own civil action for an environmental tort such as nuisance, consider attempting to have the bar’s liquor license yanked, and while that is in the works, also try to block it from obtaining a liquor license for its summer patio.

Go through the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario for this. For grounds, use your and your neighbours’ diaries and sound recordings, copies of letters to the bar, records of complaints with the police and the municipality, and sections 6(2)(d) and (h) of the Liquor Licence Act:

6.(2) (d) the past or present conduct of the persons referred to in subsection (3) affords reasonable grounds for belief that the applicant will not carry on business in accordance with the law and with integrity and honesty;

(h) the licence is not in the public interest having regard to the needs and wishes of the residents of the municipality in which the premises are located;

and with respect to the patio, also use section 46 of that act’s general Ontario Regulation 719/90:

  1. The holder of a licence that applies to outdoor premises shall not permit noise that arises directly or indirectly from entertainment on the premises or from the sale and service of liquor to disturb persons who reside near the premises;

or simply move – hey, the Beaches are nice, relatively affordable, and still close to downtown, as are parts of the Annex.

If you are ready to commit to what could be a hefty legal bill, drop me a line so that I can put you in touch with a senior environmental/land use lawyer who is the head of litigation at one of the major Canadian law firms in Toronto – he might be able to find the right lawyer for you.

And if that fails, just rent some war tubas and have at it: http://static.flickr.com/72/227518659_163e9acf3e_o.jpg

or simply move (did I mention that before?).

22

The problem with the OP moving is they have to sell the house.

Do you have to disclose these sort of things if you’re trying to sell a house?

23

No, in Ontario you do not have to disclose that there is a noisy bar in the neighbourhood.

Most realtors will try to have the vendor sign a vendor disclosure statement that discloses physical problems with the house, but noisy neighbours are not on that list. In any event, I recommend not completing and not signing a vendor disclosure statement.

24

Put a ‘For Sale’ flyer in the bar: “Great location! Steps to nightlife!”

25

We’ve actually been discussing long term plans, and they don’t include staying here… It’s an amazing house, but neither one of us wants to be fighting for the next X years…

We’ve tried to get neighbors involved, and most people in the area don’t care since it doesn’t directly affect them… There are really only 10 houses the noise affects… and a few who deal with the vomit, lines of people and urination…

I find it really strange that some of the people who are affected tell us that they “don’t want to make waves”… especially since they actually went through this many years ago with the same bar under a previous owner. But luckily (?) he was murdered by his lover and the bar closed down for years…

So, even though it affects a whole neighborhood, only two or three families are truly willing to fight… and I really don’t think that’s enough… Maybe when spring and summer come and the noise gets even worse, the other people will finally get angry enough to do something.

But after discussing all the options listed here - some of which are great, like the rent-a-cops, and getting an environmental engineer to record the noise - we’re leaning towards selling…

Luckily the market in Toronto hasn’t crashed like in California, so if it holds on a couple of years til I finish school, we should be able to get about $600,000 to $700,000 for this place… and there should be a few nice neighborhoods to buy in with that.

I actually like the Beaches a lot, but I love being able to walk everywhere in minutes… after commuting for over two hours a day in the Bay Area, this is heaven - a noisy and cold heaven - but heaven…

I’m amazed, but kind of happy that people don’t have to disclose things like noise here… I swear when we sold in California, we had to write down everything under the sun if there was anything…

Hey, I’m in film school - maybe I should make a movie about a bar that opens and destroys the lives of all the people nearby! I wonder if the bar would let me film there? :smiley:

26

In Ontario there is no duty to disclose, however, the vendor must not misrepresent (either innocently, negligently, or fraudulently). Buyer beware, provided there is no misrepresentation.

27

It certainly isn’t something we would hide… I would let them know the noise bothers us, but other neighbors don’t seem to be bothered as much… and to check with them.

I certainly wouldn’t be happy finding out about bar noise after I bought a place… so I would never do it to someone else.

28

Daffyd, to survive in the meantime, have you looked into ear plugs and anti-sound generators?

29

Yeah, we’ve got fans going at night, and a white noise machine… and since the noise is mostly at the back of the house, we sleep at the front… and we’re changing our schedules…

I made sure I don’t have any early morning classes at school beginning in January - and hubby has started working at night since he’s up anyway. It isn’t too hard for me since I’m naturally a night person, but he used to get up at 5, and now he’s going to be around that time.

30

I thought you were the only gay in the village. :confused:

31

Well, ya see, I moved from Llanddewi Brefi to San Francisco, then decided it was too Gay, so I moved to Toronto… How was I supposed to know the Gay Village here would be so huge (and loud) ??? :smiley:

32

Mabe you and your neighbors can all piss and vomit on the bars front door.
That would deter me going in! :slight_smile:

Don’t have any good suggestions (although I do like the idea of pissing the Owner off by pissing on his front door). Good luck

33

Well Muffin beat me to it, but I was going to suggest that you skip what you’ve been doing and go after any liquor licensce infractions. For example instead of calling at 4am about the noise, call at 4am to complain that they are still serving alcohol (assuming that’s illegal in Toronto). Read up on the liquor laws for your area and start trying to nail them for those issues.
How 'bout a REALLY expensive solution. If they rent the building, you could buy it from the owner and evict them, then re-rent to someone who would set it up as a small store.

Oh and personally I would stay away form Thebarsuck . com. It’s not likely to generate much traffic and I’d be concerned about liable/slander suits coming your way.

34

You have a non-responsive city councillor. Find out who, on the council, is their major political enemy(there will be one!), and go to them about the issue. It won’t be their district, but they would probably love to figure out how to make trouble for your own councillor. Maybe that would help get something done.

35

Daffyd, have you tried the Toronto bylaw enforcement system? Police tend to be geared towards criminal issues, under the Criminal Code, and often don’t have the time or resources to work on a persistant, but non-criminal problem. Noise bylaws are a city matter, and the City of Toronto has set up an division to enforce its bylaws: Municipal Licensing & Standards - Investigation Services:

They recommend that you go to your District Office to make a detailed complaint. Alternatively, there is an after-hours number listed at the bottom of this page. They might not consider a single incident as an emergency, but if they start getting after-hours calls about the same bar every weekend, from more than one person, they might start seeing the size of the problem. You might consider both an in-person complaint and the after hours calls.

Good luck!

36

Daffyd lives in the City of Toronto, Canada’s largest city:

.

Direct complaining to the City Council about one property isn’t likely to be too effective.

However, I think the suggestions from Baker and TokyoPlayer may have some potential:

37

We actually did talk with them, and they even stopped out one time… Of course it was a few minutes after the police had just gone into the bar with another neighbor and they turned down the music, so the enforcement officer heard nothing…

Talking with him was a total waste of time - the officer was talking to us like we were crazy because it was quiet… and when we asked him to go talk to some of the other neighbors, he told us he couldn’t, unless they had filed a complaint too… and since my partner was the one who made the complaint, I wasn’t allowed to talk unless I had filed a complaint too!

He was at our place around 11:45, and we asked him to come back in an hour when the music would be louder again, but he said he only worked until midnight… Great for a noise enforcement officer who deals with bar noise, huh? :smack:

A few days later, they sent us a letter telling us we could keep track of the noise for two months, and send a list of times to them, and they might take the owner to court, but there were no guarantees…

There are times I feel like we must be crazy for asking the city to enforce bylaws… There’s a row of townhouses owned by a slumlord about a block away that literally has garbage piled up two feet high in an alley next to it, beer cases thrown in the front yard, dead ficus trees and garbage thrown on the front yards, and I’ve walked by and had to dodge rats… I called and emailed the city enforcement people at least three times… Supposedly they will come out and clean things up and then charge the owner… but nothing ever happened… The mess is still there months later…

That was around the time that we realized that Toronto - “The City That Works” (As people kept telling us) - doesn’t…

38

I don’t know if it would work on your side of the Lake, but around here the best way to get a club shut down is with the Fire Marshal. Very few dance clubs can turn a profit and stay in compliance with occupancy laws. I would imagine that you’d have to contact them during the day and let them know when the peak hours at the club are.

39

Keep the complaints rolling in and go after the liquor license. Get the local TV station involved. If they are willing to annoy you for profit then they will only fix the problem when it hits their wallet.

I feel for you. I had a neighbor deliberately leave her stereo blasting and then left her duplex to piss off the other tenant. The sound went down through the basements and then radiated through my house. I was pissed. Fortunately the police arrived just as she did. I was eyeing the electrical box on the side of the house.

40

For those with problems with bar patrons messing up their lawns, I wonder if automated sprinkler systems could be effective? Does anyone know if one could be wired to a motion detector?