Yes.
And then fill the water gun up with pepper spray, of course.
“Complaints? Good lord, officer, can’t a man pepper his lawn in peace?”
I could use one of those right now… The music started today at 10:30 in the morning… I guess they’re preparing for their “underwear party” tonight…
It’s funny, I have days where it doesn’t bother me, and days where I want to get in a car an sit outside the bar blasting classical music as loud as I can… Of course, nothing happens to them for noise, but ME? I’d be arrested for sure!
So, I just stay out of the back of my house… I thought we got a good deal on this place, but now that it’s only half the size and we can no longer use the back yard or roof deck, it seems pricy…
Wonder if Vancouver is as noisy as Toronto? Or maybe Victoria would be better - it’s more of a retirement area - suddenly I want to be around people over 65 - they’ve got to be quieter!
Based on many of your posts that I recall, you like Toronto. So if you’re considering moving, why not look into other neighbourhoods in the city? There are a number of them that will be quieter, with nice old homes, and pleasant people who feel as you do about noisy nightclubs. The Beaches was mentioned above, for example. I don’t know about your finances, but why not also look at places like Riverdale, the Annex, Forest Hill, or even North Toronto? Even some of the gentrified row housing in the Summerhill and Rosedale Subway areas (check out Marlborough Avenue sometime) is quiet and nice. All are close to the subway, with its quick access to downtown. Or even some of the outlying towns that have GO access–I lived in Stouffville for four or five years, and I was surprised at how efficient the GO service was. In some ways it was better than TTC when I lived in North York!
I guess my point is that the rest of Toronto isn’t club-oriented and noisy like your current neighbourhood. If you like the city–and it seems that you do–don’t give upon it, or form an impression based on one neighbourhood. Perhaps there is another neighbourhood in or near Toronto that would be more to your liking.
I’d still say it could be worth a shot to make an estimate of how much soundproofing the club would cost. That would be comparably easy; it’s a club, so what stops you from going in with the soundproofing guy, order a beer, look around and leave again? If he could give you a ball park figure of how much soundproofing would cost, that would have several advantages:
The PR-advantage I mentioned upthread. You won't be a curmudgeon who wants to shut down a newly (re)opened club, thus squashing the dreams of the young owners. And you aren't vulnerable if they should play the homophobia-card. Instead, you have a practical solution that should satisfy the needs of all involved.
That ballpark figure, if communicated to all involved, will play a role in the mental calculations of the bar owners. Whenever they are confronted with bad PR, with fire or noise officials, with lawsuit threats, or with anything else you throw at them, they won't make the calculation "either we fight, and fight dirty, or we are closed down and lose everything". No, they will make the calculation: "a further, durable and tax-deductable investment in my club of 20.000 dollars and all my troubles will go away and stay away" . Now what is more likely to sway them?
That ballpark figure will also come in handy if the bar owners are truly cheap and cynical bastards and promise to “soundproof” the club themselves, to shut everybody up. If they do so by letting their father in law glue some cardboard to the ceiling, and they can’t show the officials some plans beforehand of some receipts afterwards that they spent an amount close to the actual costs of doing a professional job, you’ve got more to go on then just “We soundproofed.” “No, you didn’t.”.
Whatever you do, good luck. Such willfull noise by partying people is enough to inspire the slow seething resentment that will either build ulcers, divorces, or uncontrollable burtst of outrage.
Of course the more worn-out and cynical officials will drive you crazy with the passive-agressive aproach you described, thus hoping you’ll give in, or give up. That would make their life easier. What you should try is to make your (and your neighbours) satisfaction their problem. The idea’s mentioned upthread are perfect for that.
One last thing: government officials prefer to deal with “legal bodies” rather then individuals.
Founding an Action Comittee is as easy as proclaiming yourself and your SO as said Action Committee over dinner, throwing 50 flyers in the neighbourhoods mailboxes, and requesting that everybody who supports your try either joins the Comittee or just list their names, sign a slip and return it to your mailbox.
I don’t think I’m **really **ready to give up on things here… There are alot of very nice neighborhoods here… I love the Beaches, but it’s just a little too far from downtown for my taste… The Annex seems really nice - and easy to walk lots of places… Now, Rosedale, that’s an area I could get into! (Of course, my finances never could.)
We’ve gotten spoiled not using our car at all. Even when it’s minus 72 degrees, it isn’t so bad walking around here… and we used to complain when it hit 50 F in San Francisco… The other day it was 3 degrees celsius, and I was going on about how **warm **it was!
And besides, I’m in school for the next two years… I’m not going anywhere until I’m finished - noise or no noise… There’s no way I could handle school and moving…
I wish they would play the homophobia card… Boy would they look stupid saying the Gay neighbors are homophobic!
We actually have gotten a few neighbors together… Maybe we need to come up with a name for the group of us… FAN (Fags Against Noise) might work… 
The ridiculous thing is everyone around here says that the previous owner - many years ago - had the same problems, and eventually put in noiseproofing which worked for a long time… Then these fools went in and remodeled and took it out again!
I’m sorry to hear about your difficulties with your neighbour. It’s strange that no one wants to get involved, generally it’s fairly easy to form a group about almost anything!
Have you checked out the Danforth area? They have lots of old houses there and the prices are not as unreasonable as some other areas.
Or, conversely, check out one of the new condos - except Bloor One, of course. 
If you are looking for advice on how a community can deal with noise complaints, speak with some of the residents of Toronto Island concerning their fight against The Docks nightclub (now known as The Sound Academy) over the last decade or so. I expect that Councilor Paula Fletcher http://www.paulafletcher.ca/ could get you in touch with them.
Or just move.
Talking with some of the Toronto Island residents is a really good idea… Why reinvent the wheel?
I’m confused about Paula Fletcher… Does her area include the Island? I went to her site, but it doesn’t really say much about her.
Regarding disclosure if/when you sell the house: whatever the law says, surely you’d want to be honest about it (I like the “steps to nightlife” approach). To Daffyd’s credit, she seems to feel that way.
We bought a property about 6 years ago and the previous owner failed to disclose (as the law required her to) that there was a pig farm upwind that not only caused a hideous stench at night but also polluted the river that runs along our property line with dangerously high bacteria levels. We could have sued her, but we just aren’t that kind of people. However, we have always been committed to the idea that when we sell the place, we would tell the truth, even if not required to by the law.
Turns out the pig farmer died and no one is carrying on his business, thank god. But having been the one to whom full disclosure was not made, I can tell you, it seems terribly unethical to pass one’s own bad luck on to others. So good for the OP for being prepared to do the right thing.
No, her ward does not cover the island – it is adjacent to that ward. She supported yanking the liquor licence in the dispute over nightclub noise between the islanders in the adjacent ward and the nightclub on the mainland in her ward.
For folks who are not familiar with Toronto, the downtown core of the city lies on Lake Ontario. At the foot of the city is a very large industrial dockyard area, in which there is little activity during the day, and no sign of life at night.
A huge rave based nightclub opened up in the dockyard, thinking that it was impossible to disturb anyone there, because in fact there was no one there.
What they didn’t count on was that on an island just across the water from the nightclub was a community of neo-Luddite cottagers who were particularly well organized, due to decades of fighting city hall over issues such as whether or not they should be permitted to continue to live on Toronto Island, which for the most part is an urban park inhabited by an infinite number of shit dispensing Canada Geese.
It is a tribute to Canadian culture that neither side actually lobbed mortar shells at the other.
Who needs mortars with the Shithawks patrolling?
i’ve worked in the nightclub industry in toronto for several years, and i agree there is a certain level of noise pollution in the areas around clubs.
also, clubs (as well as various other entertainment venues) are inspected regularly – in the club district this can mean as often as once a week; in other areas more like once a month.
it is rare for a venue to exceed the noise level set out in the by-laws; though violations are treated fairly harshly – heavy fines and/or shutdowns for violators.
the main problem with the noise by-law enforcement – which was highlighted by the docks shutdown – is that inspections basically consist of reading decibel levels from street level outside of the establishment in question. in the docks case, the residents of the island were able to persuade enforcement officers to measure decibel levels on the island; the channel between the docks & the island actually amped the sound, so it was louder on the island than on the street outside of the club.
if the buildings & alleys & etc between your house (or neighbourhood) and the club are creating an echo chamber, amping the noise pollution, well, that isn’t being measured by the by-law enforcement officers.
lesson: don’t ask the city to check the noise level of a particular venue; ask them to check the noise level you are experiencing, and to track down the culprit. and maybe drop some hints as to what is loud & near.
I find it hard to take the rest of your complaints seriously after that.
You bought a house in downtown yet complain about noise? People like you either need their heads analysed or need to realise that they MADE A MISTAKE!
No matter what city you live in the world there is one truth…the middle of the city is a noisy place to live! It doesn’t matter if you were there before the bar or not (you knew there had been a bar on the site) you moved there knowing it was downtown!
If quietness was your MAJOR aim in a house then you were clearly not thinking when you bought your house. If you bought your house thinking it had many positives-less travel, close to ammenities, good shopping etc WITHOUT thinking about the night noise then clearly you were not considering ALL that downtown had to offer.
Auckland city currently has had a boom of people buying properties in downtown and then…complaining about noise. SILLY FUCKERS!
I don’t go to bars in town…nor do I own a bar in town BUT I do think people who buy properties in the middle of the city and complain about the noise are …hmmmmmm a little self important. Surely there has to be a part of every city where people go to have fun and make noise and bar owners go to make money.
The central city is a place where there will be noise and businesses that create noise. You don’t like noise, then don’t live there.
Oh please… If you can’t even be bothered to read what we’re talking about, please spare me your rant about noise… We aren’t complaining about city noise… We’re used to traffic, sirens, people making alot of noise, etc… Because we’re in a business area, our garbage is collected at 3am… None of that bothers us. We’ve lived in cities for many years.
Toronto has ONE area for dance clubs - and this isn’t it. The bar was slated to be demolished to be turned into housing, but a City Councillor had them designate it as a historical site so that it could reopen - not just as a bar - but as a dance club.
Thanks for your input. :rolleyes:
I guess we need to keep bothering the bylaw people until they measure from the back of our house instead of in front of the club… Most of the noise is coming from a back/side patio on the second floor - so the noise goes directly at all of our houses.
Thanks for the info… Nice to hear that they actually do take things seriously… Maybe we’ve just hit the wrong guys so far…
Do any of your local news stations have a consumer protection person. Someone you can call when you’re being screwed by a store that won’t let you return something or a car mechanic that’s lieing about what’s wrong with your car? Give them a call and ask them for help, they love this stuff.
I’ve been trying to figure that out myself… I’ve looked around a bit, but haven’t found anything like that yet… They do love these kinds of stories, don’t they?
Try Pat Foran at CTV. His brief bio (here) lists him first as the consumer reporter for Canada AM, but it also says he also does local Toronto stuff for the CTV Toronto station. Can’t hurt to try him anyway.