How to deal with this teacher?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Not sure what to title this post, but I’m seeking advice on how to handle an issue with my 15 year old daughter and her grades. Specifically how to handle what I am worried might be an underperforming teacher. Let’s call the teacher Ms. W.

My daughter has generally been a very active high achiever. She’s a freshman at a big suburban high school in the Chicagoland area with about 3500 students. It’s a good school. She scores high on standardized tests but nothing like genius level. Straight A’s every year up to this point.

Going into high school the recommendation from the school district was for her to take all honors level classes, including a class called Intermediate Algebra (honors). It’s the second highest freshman math class the school offers so we knew it would be a challenge. She started out fine in the class and managed to get a B first semester, but that was because of a strong start. Her quiz and test scores have gotten worse as the year has gone along.

Obviously she isn’t getting the material and as they build on prior topics she is falling behind. If it was just her I’d say that the class is simply too hard for her. But I’ve come to find out that it’s the entire class. Their last quiz, the average score for the class was a 46%. Luckily they can take quizzes over to try for a better grade, which she has done (still waiting on that grade). That helps. But her test scores, which they can’t retake, have also gotten progressively worse. She got a D on the latest test last Friday (11/8). Which, it turns out, was higher than class average.

My concern here is that Ms. W is just rushing through the material, class results be damned. Shouldn’t she maybe slow down and make sure the majority of her class understands the current topic before advancing? I don’t mean to be dismissive and I am not a teacher, so maybe I’m just being foolish. She’s young (26-ish) so perhaps she lacks the experience to make that call? Or maybe she feels that she is just “following orders” from the administration and/or district? Ms. W happens to be the childhood friend of one of our neighbor’s kids, and according to them she sees herself as tough and something of a hardass, so maybe it’s just her. I don’t know. What I do know is that other sections of the same class who have a different teacher aren’t taking the 11/8 exam until next week (11/18).

Before anyone suggests that maybe my daughter just isn’t working hard enough, I generally hold my kids pretty accountable. She’s getting As in all other classes and is really putting in a lot of effort in this class, plus she has been very proactive on her own. During our parent/teacher conference Ms. W mentioned that if our daughter wanted, she could come in before school. Saying, “I’m here every morning at 7:20.” So since then, my daughter has tried to go in early to see Ms. W multiple times each week. I’d say there is about a 50% success rate. Either the room is dark and she’s obviously not in yet, or the lights are on but the door is locked and she’s no where to be found. I understand that Ms. W might be running late or have things to do, but if you offer to be there every day and aren’t about half of the time, maybe just have set days of the week or something.

Other things my daughter is doing to help have included going to the school’s tutoring center during study hall and/or after school to get help, as well as before school when she can’t connect with Ms. W. She’s also started seeing an outside tutor, a girl who’s a senior and a math whiz. My daughter says the tutor is really good at explaining things, that “she makes it so easy”. But she only sees her once a week so it doesn’t solve all of the problems. And frankly, even though the tutor isn’t expensive, I’d rather not pay her.

So after all of that (sorry for the novel), any suggestions on how to handle this? Anyone have a similar experience? I’m not sure it feels right to contact the teacher and ask her to slow down. Do I go over her head to the Dean of Math? Doesn’t seem right either. Whatever I do, I don’t want to get on Ms. W’s bad side. In addition to being her math teacher, she’s also one of the coaches for my daughter’s spring sport. Not really a big deal in the grand scheme, but it’s important to my daughter. Mainly I just want to make sure my daughter is getting a good education and a fair shake.

C/N: First world problems.

2

:confused: :confused: Are you saying you haven’t yet contacted the teacher about this issue? Not necessarily to “ask her to slow down”, but to talk to her about the performance of the class in general and your daughter in particular, and express your concerns that maybe this is not the best way for the students to learn the material?

I’d say that would be the place to start. You can’t really know what’s happening here unless you know why the teacher is choosing to run the class this way. Yes, it’s an honors class, but if most of the students including a solid A honors student are struggling in the class, that suggests that something’s not working.

I’d also gently bring up the issue of your daughter frequently having tried to come in early and not finding the teacher there. It’s completely reasonable that the teacher is not in fact always in or available before class every morning, but if she’s telling students that she will always be there and then frequently isn’t, that’s wasting the students’ time and effort. Your daughter is entitled to expect that if Ms. W. is available for extra help, and admittedly that’s a sizeable “if” that shouldn’t be taken for granted, then the help should be available on a reliably scheduled basis, barring the extremely occasional emergency.

3

Thanks for the response. We did bring it up during the p/t conference, but Ms. W basically just said that the class moves fast and my daughter would have to work harder to keep up. So we tried that. I also didn’t have the additional info about the class average scores or the pace of the other class at the time.

In addition, the school really pushes personal responsibility so we were trying to stay out of it at first. This seems like it’s a little much to ask a 15 year old to address though. And I want to be respectful to the teacher since I am going to be questioning how she’s doing her job. No one likes to hear that.

As to you last point, I agree. We wouldn’t have expected the teacher to be there every morning. But if you say that you’re going to do something and your students are planning on it, you should probably deliver. Or set a more reasonable schedule.

4

. Where did you get the data from? If it’s from the school, it certainly indicates something isn’t right. High school classes usually have standards and criteria established before a class is even offered, but if the majority of the class is failing, it’s not a matter of students keeping up. Sometimes it turns out students haven’t had the prior learning necessary to meet the goals. Sometimes those standards and criteria are too lofty. Sometimes–not often–students aren’t used to working that hard. Whatever the situation, the teacher and school should be exploring the reasons, not dismissing parents.

Do you know other parents in the class? If so, it might help to request a meeting with all of you plus the teacher and principle–NOT to roast the teacher but to work as “stakeholders” to figure out what the issues are.

Good luck.

5

You are almost certainly going to have to escalate, and you shouldn’t hesitate to do so. I’ve been teaching high school for nearly 20 years, so my knee-jerk sympathies are with the teacher–but that’s ridiculous. Meet with her first, but if it’s not a very positive meeting, don’t wait to escalate. Just repeat what you are saying here–I know my kid, I’m watching my kid, she’s working her butt off, she’s here every morning and after school, she goes to the tutoring center, she has a private tutor, and she’ barely pulling a B-- and this is freshman algebra, not rocket science.

Two questions:

Is the problem that she really doesn’t understand the algebra, or does she have a pretty good grasp of the contents but the tests are full of tricky questions and just generally difficult, or does she just not have the support she needs to learn the fundamentals? You might sit her down and have her do the Khan academy tests for the Algebra concepts she’s covered, and see if she understands the math. You need to know if this is a teaching problem or a testing problem.

The second thing you need to know is what outcome are you hoping for. Your daughter moved to the other teacher’s class? Teacher starts curving her tests, so that the class average is at least a 70? The math department chair to sit down and work with the teacher and look at her tests and grading and figure out what’s going on? The chance to re-take those tests? I don’t have any advice here, but you need to have least thought about it before you go in.

6

As a veteran teacher myself I’ll echo what others have said, and I especially like Manda JO’s second point–going into any meeting knowing what it is you want. Along with nelliebly I am curious to know where you’ve gotten the info about the distribution of grades in the class. Any possibility that the info you have is less than accurate? Not saying it is, but it’s astonishing how quickly misleading or outright wrong information can fly around the parent body of a school.

One other thing, which I think you hinted at. High-performing schools (these days in particular) sometimes like to push kids into classes they’re not really prepared for. It looks good to have tons of kids in AP courses or Honors courses; makes the school look better compared to some of its neighbors, may raise home values, etc. In the long run of course it isn’t good for the kids, but in the short run there may be pressure on the math department to identify lots of kids as ready for harder courses without making sure that they are truly ready. You can see the issue: the syllabus requires getting from Point A to Point Z by Memorial Day, but if they aren’t at Point A when they begin, then making it to Point Z is…problematic. And in this formulation that could be a systemic problem which is not specifically the teacher’s fault and may not be in the teacher’s power to fix (though for the record I agree that there seem to be some issues with her teaching).

I don’t know whether this may apply to your daughter’s school. Judging from your location, she may be attending the high school that one of my cousins sent his kids to (one is now a senior, the other graduated in 2018) and that another cousin’s kids will soon be attending. I think the kids have generally had positive experiences in the district, but it would not be at all surprising to me if there were some systematic things at play that make it a more intense environment than perhaps is wise… Again, just guessing based on your location, possible it’s a completely different school with a different ethos, but I thought I’d throw that out there.

Good luck, and I would definitely make an appointment with the teacher asap, with the math dept chair in reserve.

7

I’ll echo the recommendation to escalate this. Be prepared for push back, as the administration may not be supportive. Stand your ground, reiterate your data points, and have a few specific requests.

8

The lil’wrekker got in an Algebra class in 8th grade that was the teachers “worst” class that year (teachers word). No one, including my bright straight A student, was doing well. This class set you up a level in highschool. It was very important to understand the material and score high in the class if you wanted a good trajectory in highschool maths. We were pulling our hair out the first semester. Gradepoint was slipping. The lil’wrekker was having panicky feelings every morning. I bit my lip and pulled her out of the class. It was a hard lesson. She had to work harder in 9th grade. Got a good class and teacher. Best decision I ever made.
Good luck.

9

Slowing down to make sure the majority of the class understands the current topic before advancing isn’t necessarily always the right thing to do. If the class is falling behind, it could be evidence of foot-dragging, laziness, or abdication of responsibility on the part of the students, or that they’re just not sufficiently prepared for the class. If the students get to set the pace, you may end up covering only a fraction of what you’re supposed to cover, which is a problem when the students get to the next level (or otherwise need to use what they’re supposed to have learned in the class).

I don’t think that’s what’s going on here. But it may well be what the teacher thinks is going on. I don’t think that’s what’s going on based on what you’ve said about the teacher’s inexperience, and the other teacher’s sections not having the same problem, and your daughter’s efforts to succeed. A teacher who has taught the class several times before is going to be in a much better position to know how fast to go, what is reasonable to expect from students, and how to diagnose why a whole class may be struggling. And this is why it might be a good idea ask the department chair, or another teacher in the department with experience with this class, to take a look at what’s going on.

10

My son did well in HS math (algebra 1 and Trig) and got A’s and B’s in both and then hit algebra 2.

This teacher basically taught the concept, but then made the kids figure out how to apply it. Like your experience, she wouldnt stay on a subject even if most of the class failed a test. This was different from the other classes where he said the teacher taught pretty much everything they would do on the assignments and tests and also left enough classtime to work with the kids. The teachers reasoning was to prepare the kids for college algebra. Now she did offer to let him come in for extra help which he did… some. He could have done better.

So he ended up getting a D first semester and F second. I feel it was a combination of my son not putting in enough effort plus a more difficult teacher. He ended up taking it over the summer and got an A.

You might consider pulling your daughter out at semester and requesting a different teacher or class. She has the next 6-8 years to sweat her way thru difficult courses and I’m not sure the benefit of this one.

11

Great suggestions already for working with the teacher, but I’ll just add that if your daughter hasn’t already tried them, the resources (all free) at Khan Academy are often very helpful. (I"m at an Honors College, not a high school, but I can’t tell you how many students tell me that it’s because of KA that they were successful enough in math to make it here).

12

How do you define “putting in a lot of effort”?

My son started 9th grade and the math was dramatically different than he was used to. It took a lot of working out problems, explaining different ways to set them up, and just practice, practice, practice before his grade improved. The assigned homework was only a few problems regarding the topic they discussed that day and did not help him learn it at all.

13

Thanks for the responses and suggestions. Exactly what I was hoping for when starting the thread.

As for where my info is coming from, obviously originally it came my daughter and her friends. I fully understand that kids often hear what they want to (don’t we all), so I asked around to other parents to “confirm,” including parents of kids in the other section. I get that this is not “hard data” which is another reason I haven’t just gone to the teacher or dean. I don’t want to go off half-cocked. But enough people are saying similar things that it does seem like there is something to it.

And it is definitely possible that my kid was just not ready for this class. That would have been my first guess if I hadn’t heard the same from others. She does do better when she retakes the quizzes and always comes away energized after working with the tutor.

Manda Jo makes a good point about having a goal. I would say my goal is having my daughter learn algebra at a reasonable pace, but I’m sure that’s too vague. Switching to the other section/teacher is probably a last resort too, as that would change her entire schedule. She likes her other classes.

Ulf, sounds like you know the school. We’ve been very impressed so far otherwise.

Redneck, from what I understand this is algebra 2. Most of the class is made up of juniors. Freshman level math at this school is offered in the following order of difficulty: geometry < algebra < intermediate algebra < advanced algebra. At least the last two also have honors sections.

And thanks to those who suggested Khan. It’s one of the tools we already use.

My plan is to speak with her advisor today to see what he suggests. He’s been very helpful so far. I’d like to get his advice on how to proceed. Maybe he can also confirm or debunk some of the stuff I’m hearing.

14

Doing the assignments, finding and doing other practice problems, Khan Academy videos and/or practice problems, seeking extra help from the teacher, tutoring center, and private tutor.

Could she work harder? Sure. But she has other classes and has to sleep some time!

15

Can she work all the problems on her own, without looking in a book or watching a video? That seemed to be the key for my son. Can she do all the problems correctly, but then get a bad grade on the test?

I also found that help from the teacher, tutoring centers, and private tutors are all almost worthless.

Good luck though, transition to high school honors math is sometimes hard.

16

That’s a good point. Yes, she works though the homework and at the beginning will reference the book, but by the time she moves onto other practice questions she’s at the point where she knows it well enough not to. I admit I don’t check every answer to every problem she works, but she does get good grades on the homework. Doesn’t seem to translate to the exam. She says she finds some of the material on the exams confusing/tricky and claims that they contain topics that she doesn’t feel were covered thoroughly. She feels unprepared.

Listen, my first thought is always that it’s on my kid to do better or work harder. And it would be here too if I wasn’t hearing the same from other parents. Maybe we are all being duped by a bunch of lazy kids who somehow ended up in the same class. It just seems unlikely.

I’m not blaming the class for everything and there probably is even more she could do or some way she could work smarter. Maybe the class is moving at an appropriate pace and it is on her. That’s fine. However, in that case I would hope they would be able to help show her how to find the path to success. She’s willing to put in the effort.

17

Almost word for word what my son says :slight_smile:

Oh hey, I know it’s frustrating. Just pretty much the exact same problem I had with my son. I’m definitely not saying your daughter is not working hard or not putting in the effort.

Another problem he had was “doing homework” while simultaneously playing computer games or messing on his phone. Not really conducive to learning new material. Something to check as well.

18

Sheesh - unless math has changed dramatically over the years :dubious:, basic level algebra and even “advanced algebra” should be easier than geometry, or at least I found that to be the case.*

Some very bright kids aren’t exceptional math students and struggle. Maybe the solution is to not start out in an advanced algebra class which mostly includes upperclassmen, and instead take basic algebra. No shame in that.

*speaking as someone who breezed through math classes until hitting a wall in sophomore geometry. :frowning:

19

That is exactly how my HS math career went, except I think geometry was junior year for us. I’m far from a math whiz.

I just took a look at the school’s math curriculum and I guess I simplified too much, so it’s even more complicated. Courses they define as “entry points” are: Pre-Algebra < Algebra < Plane Geometry < Geometry < Geometry (honors) < Intermediate Algebra (honors)< and Advanced Algebra (honors).

Aside from those 7, there are 15 other offerings (or more if you count comp sci classes) which include several AP courses.

20

One suggestion if I may?

Since her instructor seems to be unable, or unwilling, to be in her office before school, perhaps your daughter could set up a time before school with the other instructor that teaches the other parallel class. I did this in college & it worked out well for me.

Sometimes getting the same material from another source helps. The other instructor may approach the material from a different angle that your daughter will understand better.

A plus to this approach is that now someone else on the staff is aware of the issue & can address it in a non-confrontational way. Kind of a back-channel situation.

IME, Most instructors are happy to help a student, even one who is not officially one of theirs.