How to handle this situation? (Racism?)

In My Humble Opinion
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[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]
DJ Motorbike made a comment that I perceive to be true among Whites; that being accused of racist behavior is one of the worst things that one can be accused of. Do you agree?
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As a white chick, and speaking only for myself, yes. Partially because I (like many, many other people) am very aware of the difficult history of race relations and socially and legally reinforced bigotry in this country; partially because it is an accusation against which I have no defense.

I do not consider myself a racist person. I grew up well after desegregation of schools, with parents who always taught me that a person should be judged on the content of their character and not the color of their skin, shape of their eyes, accent, physical or mental disabilities, etc. I was absolutely bewildered when I learned that there had once been separate drinking fountains for non-whites, as if skin color were cooties. I’ve also lived in culturally diverse Los Angeles since I was quite small, surrounded by people of all backgrounds.

But what can I say if someone accuses me of being prejudiced against someone because of their skin color?

I can’t point to the fact that I hang out with people of many differing ethnicities, as this is the “some of my best friends are …” defense. I can’t prove my own thoughts or opinions. I could possibly point to my own non-white ancestry, but it is far enough back that I look completely white (whatever that means) so clearly I’m “passing” well enough. There is absolutely no way I can prove to someone that I haven’t done something for race-based reasons.

It is also gut-wrenching for me, as a white person, to be accused of racism because often the accusation itself is for race-based reasons; because I am white, I am more likely to be suspected of prejudice against non-white people. Racism hurts no matter who throws it around.

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[QUOTE=Frank]
[off-topic completely]
I hope that’s what you say in real life - I’m delighted by that phrase!
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According to laws regarding concealed carry permits, it is a legal term. Florida Code It is also fun to toss out to drunk degenerates.
I am a big, huge fan of consignment. There is a shop near me that also has high standards about what they take, which is PRECISELY why I shop there. Any one who has babies that doesn’t use consignment shops is crazy. I had no idea how little wear baby clothes can get.

Keep up the good work, don’t let the freaks get you down. pseudotriton ruber ruber Your response cracked me up. :slight_smile:

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I used to work in a used book store and got this shit all the time. People of all hues would come in with their crappy unsellable highlighted water-damaged books and take great offense that I wasn’t going to buy them. I got called a racist several times, it didn’t bother me at all. I can tell when someone’s trying to manipulate me or push my buttons.

If you’ve actually done something wrong, you should make amends. If not the only thing you should feel is pissed off. My advice is to just forget the whole thing.

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[QUOTE=Anastasaeon]

How should I handle this, Dopers? I’ve never been in this situation before. :frowning:
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Do *not *make further contact. If they contact you, make sure someone else is there, best would be your MGR.

An apology should be made if they do come back in “I am sorry you feel that way”, which is correct.

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[QUOTE=Mindfield]
If I were in such a situation I would have tried to reassure the mother that there were legitimate reasons for rejecting the clothes that had nothing to do with race, and the proceeded to explain to the mother (and showing where necessary) why each piece was rejected, citing company standards where appropriate. If the mother was at all reasonable then I’m sure she would have at least given consideration to the legitimacy of the decisions. It is unfortunate that the rejected clothes happened to be the daughters, but I’m sure there were perfectly acceptable reasons of style and condition that played reasonable factors in the decisions completely removed from any racial bias the daughter may think you have.
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Emphasis mine.

[QUOTE=the OP]
Her mother came to me with tears in her eyes and her bag of “no” items in her hand, saying that her daughter was at home crying because she believed I rejected her items because of the colour of her skin. This shocked the hell out of me. My manager was standing beside me and came immediately to my defense, and we sorted through the bag together, showing her exactly why the items were rejected. The mother dried her eyes a bit and scolded me, telling me I should be far more sensitive to people of other races, since I couldn’t possibly know what it was like, because I was white. I told her I was sorry that her daughter felt that I rejected her items based on the colour of her skin, but that it simply wasn’t true. I would have gone out an apologised to her face if she had been there, but she wasn’t.
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[QUOTE=Anastasaeon]
How should I handle this, Dopers? I’ve never been in this situation before. :frowning:
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  1. If the situation hasn’t already been resolved to your satisfaction, ask to speak to the girl and find out exactly what transpired in your interaction that made her think she was being discriminated against, and whether or not her explanation seems reasonable or plausible. DrDeth’s advice about not initiating contact and having a manager present seems sound.

  2. One common misunderstanding between (white) retailers and (black) customers is the handling of change. If I, as a customer, hand you money directly in your hand, I expect to receive my change back in my hand, especially if I have my hand out awaiting change. Some retailers have been known to avoid physically touching (all) customers at all costs. Perhaps in their mind, they avoid touching customers just to keep germs in transactions to a minimum. But if their customers happen to be mostly black, this may be misperceived by the customers as avoidance because of their race. I’ve seen it before (granted, years and years ago.) Stranger things have happened.

  3. As a representative of your retailer/employer, give her a sincere apology for the miscommunication and unintentional negative shopping experience. I’ve apologized for tons of shitI 've had nothing to do with, for inconvienences to the customers I did not cause, for delays that had only the weather could start and end. This is because I have a little thing called, “empathy.” Your instincts to want to apologize to the customer are quite correct in that regard.

  4. This isn’t racism. This is a perceived and nebulous racial slight over the rejection of some clothes for reasons not clear to this girl, who merely assumes the reason must be racial. Bigoted behavior would be flagrant and obvious and explicit: a comment like, “Normally we don’t take clothes from you people, but I guess I can accept this one and this one. I don’t like the stains on this one. Do your clothes usually stink like this!” Racist behavior would be worse, something like, “I’ll take a couple of these. Some of my customers like wearing nigger-style clothes.”

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[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]

DJ Motorbike made a comment that I perceive to be true among Whites; that being accused of racist behavior is one of the worst things that one can be accused of. Do you agree? I’m just curious. (I’m a Black male BTW.)
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I’m going to agree that a lot (probably most) of caucasians in the U.S. will claim offense if being called a racist, but honestly, it doesn’t even make me bat an eye, regardless of who is calling me what. I honestly don’t really pay attention to things like skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. I think my parents raised me right in that regard; I clearly recall a moment when I was ten years old and my uncle was talking about the boy next door, who was a friend of mine. He referred to him as “that little boy, the black one, who lives next door.” My eyes widened and I said something like “Holy crap, Jamal is black?” I then ran next door and asked Jamal what it meant. I’d never really noticed the difference in color between our skin until he pointed it out. I remember when I was little I just thought people came in every color in the rainbow.

If you get defensive about someone calling you a racist, you give the impression that you are a racist, and are just trying to cover it up because it’s not cool to be one anymore. shrugs

As to the OP: my BS-O-Meter is going off. I’m not sure, however, who is full of BS: the mom or the daughter. I’d brush it off and if they come in again be as polite as you usually are, and act like it never happened; if they bring it up, just smile and be as nice as you usually are. If you feel like it, apologize for not being clear enough about the policies of the store for them to understand, but I don’t really think it’s necessary. They were trying to get money and were annoyed that their secondhand crap didn’t get taken. Playing the race card (and I don’t care if anyone is offended by it, because I get people trying that crap with me all the time; saying I messed up Grandpa’s obituary because he’s Hispanic…Like I care if the guy is Hispanic, I got more important shit to do than purposely mess up some guy’s obituary) is the lamest of all attempts for personal gain on the planet. It’s below televangelism, in my book.

~Tasha

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When I moved a few months ago I sold a bunch of books to a used bookstore. The buyer complimented my taste in books but said that I’d get more money if they were in better condition. I must have been super-sensitive that day because I took that little comment really personally, as if he’d accused me of living in squalor because my books were dusty. Now, I knew that he wasn’t insulting me, just providing a routine explanation, so I didn’t say anything to him, but my feelings were hurt (and let me reiterate that I know my response was irrational). Maybe the girl expressed something like this to her mom, and her mom blew it out of proportion. Just a thought.

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Damn, guys, so many responses, so many Dopers I respect with lots to say. Thank you all for your input; I apologise for not popping in sooner, as I’ve been busy with work.

Man, where to start…

Hippy Hollow: Short answer: Yes, I believe being called a racist is one of the very worst things one can be called. To me, it is a sick, sad sort of feeling of being grossly misunderstood somehow. My long answer was too rambley and made little sense.

Rodgers01: The lady left off rather abruptly, and I wonder if she was placated by my insistence that any slight to her daughter was unintentional. She gave me her scolding, sniffled a bit, dried her eyes and walked out without another word.

I’ve been conflicted about calling the daughter. On the one hand, I could lose my job. My manager has made it clear that if anything further happens, she’s got my back. Well, that’s all well and good. But, no pun intended, it’s not all just black and white. There’s a part of me that just feels damn bad. Not defensive, not sorry in the “I’m guilty” kind of way, just a human feeling bad that I might have hurt another human’s feelings. I feel bad if I make anybody cry, even unintentionally. Hell, especially unintentionally.

I did tell the mother that I hoped to see her and her daughter back in the store, and I’d love to walk her through the process next time. I think that helped her to see, at least a little. I haven’t heard anything from the daughter.

There’s still that part of me that wants to go find her name, find her stuff, and call her. I did some heavy soul searching to see if it was to make me feel better, or to make her feel better. The honest answer is that it’s for both. I want to know she’s okay, and I want her to be okay.

My real hope is that I see her in the store again someday soon. It doesn’t even have to be anything more than that. Just come back, and I’m good.

There was some mild frustration at first, with the accusation weighing heavy on my mind that first day, making me feel confused and hurt. I kept thinking, “Why would anyone think that about me? They don’t even know me!” And in the end, that’s exactly the answer: of course she doesn’t know me. And I don’t know her, either. I don’t know if her mother was being an over-reactive mother bear, if she was just using it as a ploy to get me to take more stuff, or if she genuinely felt I was being racist. My only action on the matter at this time is this: I hope her mother told her what I said. I hope she returns to the store. I will let my work and my actions speak for themselves.

Oh, and re: apologising: **Subway Prophet ** has it bang on. I’m a salesperson. The first thing we do, regardless of the complaint, is apologise. When I apologised to the mother, I apologised for giving that impression, not for my actual actions. We are service-people, here to serve, and every complaint is met first with an “I’m very sorry” often followed by a “but…”. In my case, I was damn sorry that there was a lady sitting at home and crying because of something she thought I did/felt towards her. That’s just awful and makes me feel bad. It does not, however, make me guilty.

I think it’s going to be fine. I’m glad for all of your responses. There’s so damn much I don’t know about the world, and I just need to stop and take stock of how I’m viewing things sometimes. Other perspectives help enormously.

I apologise for this post likely being disjointed and rambling; I know I had more to say, but I’m knackered.

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[QUOTE=Anastasaeon]
I’ve been conflicted about calling the daughter There’s a part of me that just feels damn bad. Not defensive, not sorry in the “I’m guilty” kind of way, just a human feeling bad that I might have hurt another human’s feelings. I feel bad if I make anybody cry, even unintentionally. Hell, especially unintentionally. There’s still that part of me that wants to go find her name, find her stuff, and call her. I did some heavy soul searching to see if it was to make me feel better, or to make her feel better. The honest answer is that it’s for both. I want to know she’s okay, and I want her to be okay.

My real hope is that I see her in the store again someday soon. It doesn’t even have to be anything more than that. Just come back, and I’m good.

In my case, I was damn sorry that there was a lady sitting at home and crying because of something she thought I did/felt towards her. That’s just awful and makes me feel bad. It does not, however, make me guilty.
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Again- do not call her, make no contact.

If she comes back in the store, treat her exactly like any other customer. Do not mention the incident.

You also do not know there was “a lady sitting at home and crying because of something she thought I did/felt towards her.” “Mom” could have made it up. Or daughter could have been upset about something her boyfriend did and not wanting to explain boyfriend problems to Mom, told Mom it was because of the clothing thing.

You did nothing wrong. Don’t feel bad. Never feel bad because of what choices other people have made- those are their choices, not yours. You can only control your actions.

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[QUOTE=Rodgers01]
You didn’t ask me, but FWIW I’d agree with this statement. (I’m a white male.)
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When I was in my twenties, I would have agreed with the statement as well. In my late twenties, however, I went to graduate school at a predominantly black university (I am white) and was treated rather shabbily on quite a number of occasions. People would make anti-white statements all the time. “All whites are racist; no black can possibly be racist!” (Getting called whitey, honkey, cracker, or, my favorite, white devil!) On several occasions, they would come up to me and say, “You do not belong here!” The most extreme incident involved being shoved down by this enormous 6’6’’ black guy (I am barely over five feet) who was built like a pro wrestler. He looked down at me with the most hateful expression I had ever seen – it was no accident! Not one single person in the hallway helped me or challenged him in any way! I was glad he did not take it any further, because he could have easily snapped my neck! The most distressing part was not getting any help/support from any one! That has really stayed with me!

I posted about this several years ago. I will dig through some of my old posts sometime.

Well, anyway, the negative experiences really changed me from the stereotypical guilt-ridden white liberal that I used to be. I am not exactly an"angry white middle-aged man" – I am just aware of how a large segment (not all!) of the black population will use the “R” word in order to make whites guilty/afraid/preferably both! I refuse to play the game!

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Of course, I don’t know you, Anastasaeon, and I’m not very familiar with your posting history, but the sense that I get from your posts in this thread is that you’re a good soul. Y’know, for what it’s worth, and all that.

(And I’ll try to remember that should we ever find ourselves butting heads over yonder in the Pit. 'Cause, you know, it *is * the Pit, and all.) :smiley:

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[QUOTE=gytalf2000]
Well, anyway, the negative experiences really changed me from the stereotypical guilt-ridden white liberal that I used to be. I am not exactly an"angry white middle-aged man" – I am just aware of how a large segment (not all!) of the black population will use the “R” word in order to make whites guilty/afraid/preferably both! I refuse to play the game!
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True, but in the eyes of society at large it can be just as bad. In other words, if someone loudly accuses you of racism and you know you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong, you might justifiably brush off the charges and not worry about it. But for anyone who was within earshot of the accusations, it’s still among the worst things you can be accused of, and the charge might unfairly stick.

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[QUOTE=Li’l Pluck]
Of course, I don’t know you, Anastasaeon, and I’m not very familiar with your posting history, but the sense that I get from your posts in this thread is that you’re a good soul. Y’know, for what it’s worth, and all that.
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More than you know. Thanks. :slight_smile:

Ha! And that means a lot, too, since I’m not much of a Pit-dweller as much as a Pit-reader. But if ever I see you and I’m slinging more than a throwaway comment or two down there, I’ll keep that in mind. :cool:

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[QUOTE=gytalf2000]
When I was in my twenties, I would have agreed with the statement as well. In my late twenties, however, I went to graduate school at a predominantly black university (I am white) and was treated rather shabbily on quite a number of occasions. People would make anti-white statements all the time. “All whites are racist; no black can possibly be racist!” (Getting called whitey, honkey, cracker, or, my favorite, white devil!) On several occasions, they would come up to me and say, “You do not belong here!” The most extreme incident involved being shoved down by this enormous 6’6’’ black guy (I am barely over five feet) who was built like a pro wrestler. He looked down at me with the most hateful expression I had ever seen – it was no accident! Not one single person in the hallway helped me or challenged him in any way! I was glad he did not take it any further, because he could have easily snapped my neck! The most distressing part was not getting any help/support from any one! That has really stayed with me!

I posted about this several years ago. I will dig through some of my old posts sometime.

Well, anyway, the negative experiences really changed me from the stereotypical guilt-ridden white liberal that I used to be. I am not exactly an"angry white middle-aged man" – I am just aware of how a large segment (not all!) of the black population will use the “R” word in order to make whites guilty/afraid/preferably both! I refuse to play the game!
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Let’s see…I’m 36, so I don’t know quite where on the “middle-aged” spectrum you fall, but I’m going to guess that you had these experiences in the '70s (maybe early to mid). Is that correct?

It comes to mind for all the reasons that I’m sure you think it comes to mind–just out of the racially turbulent '60’s, etc., but I don’t bring it up to excuse it. In fact, I’m quite saddened to hear of your experience. And, really, there could never be any excuse for it since you were obviously dealing with assholes. I’m black, and though I wasn’t there, I’m ashamed for the way that you were treated.

And before anyone comes in and says, “Yeah, but gytalf2000 could be looking at things through his own lens, etc., etc.,” let me just say yes, I understand that, and I’m aware of the possibility. However, that wouldn’t indicate that he’s making this stuff up, and I’ve actually seen instances of blacks turning their *very legitimate * anger upon white folks who haven’t done anything to them.

And gytalf2000, I just hope that you’re able to deal honestly with whatever demons your experiences have given birth to.

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[QUOTE=Anastasaeon]
More than you know. Thanks. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE]

You are quite welcome. :slight_smile:

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I had a retail experience that was similar. I worked at a pet wtore and we had a strict policy that children without their parents couldn’t buy a pet. It prevented a child from coming home with an unwelcome addition (“Look mom, they had snakes on sale!”) and it also made sure they had the right equipment for the animal first.

We had a boy come in that wanted to buy a hamster. He was about 12, and not obviously of non-white descent. We told him the store policy, and explained we would be happy to sell him any animal if he would just have his parents with him. He left upset.

About an hour later his father came back to yell at us that we had refused to sell his son a hamster because he was aboriginal (although he said native).

We were stunned. We hadn’t even realized the child was aboriginal, let alone refused him a hamster on those grounds.

I hate being accused of racism. There is no defence that doesn’t sound stupid and the more you try and talk your way out of it the worse it becomes.