Let me ask something. What would you think of the young man in question reading this thread? You know, seeing several points of view.
For a person to “grow up” they need to make their own choices, not have someone else do all the shaping of their decisions, like the OP seems to want to do.
Sure, they may screw up, but that’s the breaks. Thirty years ago I had one year of college, and still had to live with my folks, because even with working nearly full time I wasn’t making enough for college and rent. That’s when a recruiter happened to make a cold call, going down the list of my high school class. I listened to him, asked around, thought about the school benefits when I got out, and decided to sign up. I went places and met people who were totally different that anyone I had ever known in my somewhat sheltered life. I learned to shoot, was taught Korean(for my job) got sent overseas, met the man I married(and, ahem, later divorced), and learned there was a lot more of the world than my hometown. Did my share of pissing and moaning while in, but that’s traditional.
And I sure appreciated my country a lot more afterwards. Hell, it has it’s warts, but I would rather live in a place where people try and sneak in, than try and sneak out.
I say back off a little, and let him make his own decisions. I didn’t make a career out of the Army, but I’ll never regret the decision to join.
Compared to the Population as a whole, the death rate of our Armed Forces taken as a whole, isn’t all that much different. Yes, the Iraqi conflict has resulted in some deaths- but the Armed Services are usually safer than being out there in the “big city”. Yes, being in Iraq is more dangerous. The deaths there -for the entire conflict- aren’t even equal to ONE DAYS deaths in the Civil War, WWI or WWII.
Is it a great choice? No- but the boy has no great choices. Yes, as Mrtuffpaws has said- there are scholarships, etc- but does the lad have great grades?
It’s a choice. It’s better than getting a minimum wage job with no future, or worse. Let him come here, read what everyone has said, and then make an informed choice. He is just about an adult.
I went to the wedding of my son’s boyhood best buddy over the weekend.
When growing up, the grrom was always a screw off of one kind or another. Nice kid, but a lot of wasted talent if you know what I mean.
The groom is in the Marines stationed at Camp Pendelton. He has been in for 7 years now. Man what a change. He is a seregent, and has truly become a man. By that I don’t mean a macho swaggering a hole, but rather, a mature thoughful individual. You can see that he is a leader of men now.
After seeing the change in him, I would have no problem suggesting the military.
YYMV of course.
I think the whole problem is this: the recruiter’s here to play hardball with him. He’s selling a used car to this kid, and counting on him to buy it out of youthful naivete. If he is to talk to the recruiter, he should definitely know what to expect, what his options are, all that. Most importantly, it’s in his best interest to be skeptical as all hell. This is the one moment he holds any sway over the military; once he signs on the dotted line, they own him.
This is not to say that the military is not a necessary institution, cannot teach strong discipline, and so forth; however, he should know what he’s getting into. He’s in a negotiation, and needs to know what he’s holding and what the other guy is. One thing I would say is crucial for him to find out is exactly how binding the recruiter’s offers are. Can he truly pick his job? If he’s told he can do one thing, is there any reason they can’t just decided he’s more useful elsewhere, and transfer him around? I’ve heard many a story from those who’ve served regarding this very thing; people want to choose their jobs, but the military often wants them elsewhere.
Also, remind him that there’s a goddamn war going on. It is perfectly reasonable that he might be shipped to Iraq. Iraq is certainly not the safest place to be, and the enemy right now tends not to fight fair. It’s tough to be a hero when you’re just worrying if those guys in the truck over there are just construction workers or about to break out the RPGs.
He’s seventeen and still has a year of high school to go? I think if he were mine, I’d talk to him about the fact that he doesn’t need to make any permanent decisions right now. Let him know that you respect his right to make the choices for his own life, but that you think he needs to finish some growing up first. (Maybe not the best way to put that.) But what I’m getting at is, I’d ask him to finish high school before he does anything definite or irrevocable. They’ll still take him a year from now, and he’ll have a better chance at doing something that will help his future while he’s in the service, if he has a diploma before he gets there.
At least that way, you have a better sense that he’s thought about it, and isn’t just buying a bill of goods, and he may decide to do something else after he looks at it more.
After you take him to see F9/11, and show him Bosda’s websites, and tell him what it was like for you and have him read all the posts to this thread, if all else fails and if he still wants to sign up, see if he’ll let you attend the recruiter meeting with him. He is a minor, after all. That way you can be his “defense attorney” and demand things in writing and point out the multiple lies he’s hearing, and your mere presence might cause the recruiter to tone down the sales pitch a tad.
The military can be great for a lot of people, my girlfriend was in the AirForce. But it’s different during a war. He could end up wishing he was killed…
If my boy comes up to me when HE’S 17 and want to join the army; I’ll be one proud freak’n Dad. (or if he wants to goto college I’ll be just as proud too.)
Let the boy make the decision for himself, but insist that he make an educated decision. You can search google for lot’s of stuff about recruiter’s tactics. Two minutes of googling “military recruiters lie” came up with:
Hmmm, Not OK to go Army cuz he might get shot, but Good idea to be a cop because NOBODY wants to hurt a cop. Very clever logic, that. At least as a soldier he’ll know that he’s someplace where someone wants him dead.
OP signed up 35 years ago. BASIC is a lot different now. Still a trip, but a lot different. Yeah, recruiters will stretch the truth, the trick is to not believe anything that is not written, and even then be prepared for the “needs of the Army” clause.
Yeah, show him some corpses and try and scare this kid out of taking one of the best opportunities for building character & self confidence, creating a future and skill-base and for getting his butt out of his mother’s protective house. You have no right to meddle in this kid’s future like that! If you REALLY care about him (and not merely doing his mother’s bidding) find out what’s important to him, demonstrate how you know his recruiter is lying (surely you can prove this if you’re fit to be in a position to advise him), and give him an alternative–to enlisting, or to MP duty…which is a VERY fulfilling MOS by the way.
How about this: Rather than giving in to the knee-jerk reaction of “Military = Bad Choice, acceptable only to The Dregs” why not look at the reality of the situation and walk him through the process of making an informed choice? Guide him toward a satisfying MOS and away from sould crushing ones like “Cook.” Personally I’d rather live with the shadow of a “hammer to the kidney” for a year than be forced to grind away in the physical and mental conditions those poor saps have to endure.
I’ll start: MOS 98(G or C) linguist, intel analyst. Great duty, great job, great skills.
That’s what my dad thought, and that was a few years after his brother got home from WWII. Then, when his buddies who just returned from Korea gave him the straight dope, he took his draft notice to the Navy recruiter. The vets tried to talk him into going to prison as a draft dodger rather than go to war in the army.
If this kid wants to go into the military, so be it; however, that doesn’t mean that he can’t use guidance in choosing a service. All MPs will go over seas. Fair enough. But if I had to choose between being an Army MP in Iraq or Afghanistan versus being an MP on any randomly chosen Air Force or Navy base, I would imagine that I would choose the latter.
The OP can explain why the Air Force or Navy are better (e.g. Air Force = better conditions, I’ve always been told), and explain that serving in one of those branches, or the Coast Guard, is still serving one’s country in an honorable way. If he wants action, I’m sure there’ll be plenty of opportunity to get some once he has been in and wants to make a more informed choice; if he wants technical skills, I’m sure there are plenty of options in those branches as well.
I guess I’m thinking that one doesn’t have to contradict his feelings, or disrespect his choice. Instead, one could explain that the infantry is going to limit his options and maximize his hardship and risk. Indeed, it will maximize his mother’s hardship as well! (Except for joining the Marines, I s’pose. I’d imagine that they’re called “Bullet Sponges” for a reason.) However, with the other branches, he can still serve, take part, and all that crap, yet still have more options available to him and fewer sleepless nights for his mom. If he’s doing this to not be a burden to his mom, explain just what the hell that motive actually implies. Being an MP on an aircraft carrier (3,000 people, they gotta have some MPs) frees up a spot for some Gung-Ho Senator’s Son to stand at a checkpoint in a hostile neighborhood.
Definately point out to him that recruiter’s promises are smoke and mirrors and that the needs of the service will always trump any promises to specific recruits. If he is promised, by contract, a particular school, then he’ll probably get it; but if the Army needs him overseas, that’s where he’ll be sent after he completes training. Suggest that he speak to the other services. I have a bias towards the Navy, but it is certainly true that, although he would almost definately do a sea or overseas tour, he wouldn’t be likely to see combat.
Now, while I think (like others on this thread) that a military hitch is good for most young people, I think you’re overlooking the fact that it will be particularly good for this young man, given his career aspirations. A hitch as a military policeman (in any of the services) will be specifically helpful to him given his plans to go into law enforcment. The military structure is quite similar to police department structure – this ‘sneak preview’ of his chosen career will be of great benefit to him, not to mention the job experience he’d gain. Plus, I believe that many (if not most) police departments offer preference points to veterans. Frankly, I think you might be planning to dissuade him from a genuinely good plan. By all means, have a talk with him and make sure that he’s gotten all the facts. But, please, once he’s done his research, treat his decision with the respect that it deserves.
Maybe the OP actually knows the kid. Maybe the OP isn’t thinking that the Army sucks, but instead that it may not be this kid’s cup of tea. Sure, there are wonderful stories about how the military has changed people. Then again, there is the family friend R. who got himself kicked out of the Marines for beating a guy with an axe handle. AFAIK, he didn’t leave as a violent thug. Then there is N. who said that Korea was okay because you could get laid for ten bucks. This was as we were travelling 110mph down a residential road in his camaro (sp?). Still unksilled, he was headed straight for the lowest eschelon of blue-collar life. Of course, there was my fraternity brother K. who was flunking out of college, had a string of bad relationships, and spent his time in the reserve, after having done active duty, wasting taxpayers’ money by shooting off his machine gun on training exercises because it was cool. One of my good friends was in Kosovo. Someone said to him, “At least the Army was a good experience.” My friend replied, “Hell no!”
Lots of people love the military, and I respect that; however, I also respect the OP’s judgement that maybe there are better paths for this kid in particular.
Make him read a book about what it was like to be in Vietnam. (I’m thinking of “365 Days” by Ronald Glasser or something like it.) Make him read it BEFORE he goes ANY further with the recruiter.
Tell him the recruiter is not going to be his boss once he’s enlisted; the service is going to send him anywhere they want. If the kids insists the recruiter is legit, tell him he MUST get any promise from the recruiter IN WRITING. And see whether he gets it!
Ask him how he would feel if he has to kill someone he later found out was innocent.
If his parent will sign. Some parents never fill out or sign the papers, and you are STUCK because the goverment won’t give you money nor will anyone loan you money, at that age or until you are waht, 24, unless your parent signs and fills out all kinds of crap.
If he goes USAF Security Forces (roughly equivalent to MPs) he WILL be deployed extensively. That is why army troops and civilians are guarding stateside air force bases.
There are many kids who want to join the Army just because they want money for school or because they don’t know what else to do. Then they are surprised when they have to do the job they signed up for.
Some kids don’t know what they’re getting into when they join.