I’m not on about anything. Someone asked who he was. I think it’s worth noting it wasn’t the same circumstances described in the OP. Why is this bothering you?
Because you insinuated that someone in this thread was trying to use him as an “example” to support nudity.
There is 100% nothing wrong with nudity in the privacy of one’s home/family/consenting friends, regardless of the age of the participants.
As far as I can tell, children who are allowed to wear whatever clothing they want to will figure out their own way as they develop. A kid at ages 3, 7, 13 and 17 has totally different conceptions of self and sex. As they go through developmental stages, they can redefine their own solutions to clothing and relations to other people.
So questions like “Do you want to wear clothes? Do you want to sleep in your parents bed?” should be answered by the child. (Which is not to say that kids will always pick what’s appropriate in every situation; bed times and ice cream should still be regulated by adults.) Assuming that adults are not abusing, controlling or shaming the kids, and that kids learn how to behave around strangers, these things are pretty much going to develop naturally.
If the young boy is going to be harmed at any age by exposure to nudity… well, he’s doomed then, isn’t he? Mankind still exists in societies with no clothes at all. Even in clothed societies, it’s virtually a given that every child plays doctor at some point. In the modern media/Internet age, it’s ludicrous to think that you can prevent anyone old enough to type from looking at all the nudity they can get a hold of. The kid’s going to be “damaged” no matter what. (In fact, I’d suggest that real-life nudity at home is probably healthier for the kid than anything else he’ll be exposed to).
As far as grandma Anne in this situation; it seems reasonable to explain to the kids that grandma is “outside” and that clothes should be worn around her. I suppose the parents were too distraught by the father’s medical emergency to have thought about having this conversation beforehand. If the parents have any fault, it’s that oversight.
No problem with nudity. Not naked myself much: my dad used a towel. He grew up in an age that was more relaxed about male nudity away from women: when he was in the Navy, the men were naked as Tom Sawyer in the pool because lint from the woolen swimming costumes clogged the pool filters.
Need to be a bit careful about what you teach your kids. There a story here from the Great Depression (which was not really ‘great’ here) which records farm kids who just got into the habit of wandering around naked…and liked it that way.
I am slightly concerned. Not because of the parent’s attitude towards private nudity - I share that. But because I share that, as a philosophy and a hobby, I know that most 9 year olds are not cool with it. Around age 7 or 8 is when the littlest nudists start to want to cover up, unless they are bullied into not wearing clothes or objects of abuse. They tend to stay clothed until about 17 or 18 when they want to take the clothes off again.
So because I share in this culture, the 9 year old’s behavior is sending up some warning flags for me.
I don’t share Anne’s concerns, I have different concerns.
I am more shocked that Anne slept until noon, leaving three young kids unsupervised, than I am about the nudity.
I didn’t know that, and I’m terribly sorry to hear it.
But…at least he carried a towel, so that makes him a good example in that one specific limited way.
I would have pointed out that “it’s not just you anymore, so now that I’m up the rule doesn’t apply”. I would later have verified the rule with the parents and asked about towel/underwear to sit down rules. Naked butts on chairs? No, damnit.
“Kids say the darndest things”. – (Art Linkletter, I think?)
And maybe “Kids expose the darndest things.”
Trouble I see here, is that the children are going to learn that being naked is okay right from the start, and then gradually learn the subtleties about when it’s okay and when it’s not, and when it’s okay to even talk about it and when it’s not. They’re likely to mention being naked, or even get naked, at pre-school or kindergarten, or at a public children’s playground, before they learn when to keep their clothes on, and when to not talk about it.
As screwed up as our society is, in general, about all things sexual, including a prevailing view that anything naked is sexual, that’s asking for trouble. This family is in danger (yes, danger) of having a lot of unpleasant interactions with Child Protective Services.
this ↑↑↑
But parents in non-nudist houses sleep naked also. It’s a simple matter to put on clothes if seems to be a problem.
I’m not into it personally, but would have no problem, and pretty much agree with the general consensus.
I have a nine year old child who rips her clothes off the moment she comes into the house. The rules here are no naked outside because the neighbors might be put off. She has to at least wear her swimsuit which is cool with her because she doesn’t like being outdoors unless she’s in the pool. Also, panties and tee shirt at least when the adult male roommate is home. It’s just common sense there. Her 25 year old sister pops her shirt off as soon as she gets home too and gallivants around in just her bra. I’m cool with both. If there was a boy in the family I’d be fine with that too.
Nope, and because nudity taboos are stupid and should be ignored at every socially-acceptable opportunity - and if you can’t in your own house, where can you?
I guarantee Sam Jr. will grow up with a much less fucked-up attitude to women’s bodies than if he didn’t see his Mom or sisters nude, ever. Ditto for the girls.
Bingo.
I have to assume that “people” includes “Grandma”.
That said, although I applaud the parents’ efforts to avoid inflicting undue body modesty on their children, I have to balance it with failing to fill in their stay-over babysitter as to the particulars of the situation. What else did they leave out?
And, another vote for the “no skidmarks” rule.
+1 for both parts.
I mean, it boggles my mind that people think that seeing someone without clothes on will turn Sam into a raving psycho, but they don’t seem to have a problem with the fact that he’s running around pretending to murder people all day.
[To be clear, I don’t particularly have a problem with play swordfighting, either. ]
I find the nudity gross, but mind my own business. I have a chat with my son about the importance of differentiating for the kids what is OK within their family vs outside it. The parents have a right to build an open non-judgmental home as they see fit. The kids have a right to be taught normal culture as well as their parent’s views.
I’ve actually had this problem with my own brother, whose five sons walk around naked all the time. I made it clear that this would not be happening in front of my Celtling. Things between us have been strained ever since, and we haven’t been back to their house, but have enjoyed spending time with them at other family events. If it were just me visiting I’d be far less concerned about it. I consider it disrespectful, but not corrupting. My daughter deserves the respect of a GD pair of MF’ing pants.
As for the OP, I am far more concerned by the whereabouts of Castor and Pollux.
Grandma should’ve received a heads-up, and the kids should know enough to wear an apron while cooking. Otherwise, Grandma is overreacting.
Anne’s concerns are that “she thinks that Sam Jr. in particular is too old to be regularly exposed to a naked female body, and she worries that about what will happen if, say, one of the twins is frightened at night and need to sleep in her parents bed.”
I don’t share those concerns.
I’ll join the consensus that Samuel and Leda blew it by (a) not making clear to the kids that “people coming over” that they have to get dressed for includes Grandma Anne, and (b) even if they’d done (a), by not giving Anne a heads-up that the kids usually wore nothing at all, and might forget themselves even though they were told to be clothed in her presence.
Anne, of course, was perfectly within her rights to insist that they be dressed in her presence. And opinions differ on cooking bacon in the nude; the late Edward Abbey said that’s how it should be done, since you were less likely to cook the bacon too quickly if you were naked.
ETA: re skidmarks, my view is that grownups, or even 9 year olds, should be able to wipe their bums well enough that this shouldn’t be a problem. But 5 year olds are a different story.
The famous naked guy was also a schizophrenic who killed himself.
His supporters thought they were sticking up for an admirable free spirit. They weren’t. They were cheering on a sick man who needed help.