Husbands, how do you cope..

One consequence of the regular PMS outbursts is that it has had a noticeable desensitization effect on me with respect to taking my wife’s emotional responses to anything seriously. It is to the detriment of both of us when she is truly upset about something versus just enduring a temporary feeling that will pass in a day or two. I want to treat her with 100% confidence and respect in her as a thinking, feeling human being but it is often hard to filter the signal from the noise.

I know intellectually that it is chemically driven, but I still can’t help feeling that it is on the level of just throwing an adult tantrum and should be controllable (per Polerius’s comments in this thread).

If you recognize intellectually that it is chemically driven then why can’t you control your impulse to think it is just a tantrum? Feelings are, after all, completely controllable, and you understand intellectually what is happening with your wife. So you should easily be able to control your feelings about her behavior, yes?

OK, just kidding. What’s your wife’s response when you tell her this, Gargoyle? My husband has approached me with his concerns in the past and one result is that now if he feels my behavior is hormonally-based, or I realize that I’m having a hormonal reaction, I’ll just stop and say, “We’ll address this in a couple of days if I’m still bothered by it” and I go off by myself for a while. Time and experience have helped me recognize when something is fueled by hormones and when it isn’t. It’s a lot easier to do that now that I’m in my 30s than it was when I was a young(er) adult.

Perhaps you should refrain from having an opinion about this, considering you have zero ability to understand it from a first person perspective.

And that applies to every man in this thread, assuming you’re all cisgendered and have not actually experienced menstruation and it’s effects. (I’m looking especially at you Polerius and TriPolar.)

Isn’t this special pleading?

What does this mean?

This is what the SO used to think. I just wasn’t “trying hard enough to control it”. Then, eight years ago during a serious medical issue, he was put on anabolic steroids to help him gain weight. He turned into a complete asshole. Tried to choke me, threw a punch at his father, put holes in the walls, screamed, cussed, and generally acted in a way that was sure to land him in prison if it continued.

After the steroids were stopped (BECAUSE of this behavior), he magically went back to being the guy I love.

Next time I had a rough pre-menstrual time (happens every other month), he said, one last time…“I don’t understand why you can’t control it since you know the cause.” And I said, “and you could control it while on the steroids? Same difference.” :dubious:
He has never said anything again except “I understand, Honey. Anything I can do?”
ETA: The only reason I stuck around after the choking incident was because the doctor had warned me. Otherwise? Outta here. He was in the middle of a MAJOR health crisis that warranted some latitude.

I don’t know about people on anabolic steroids and how much they can control it, but I do know about people on PMS, and it’s a fact that they *can * and do control it, in front of the right people. It’s only back at home where they claim that it’s not within their control.

Wake up to this fact.

LMAO. This affects me at work, at home and at the Dairy Queen. How hard I try to control it isn’t variable. How well my attempts at control work depend on how much exposure I have and how bad my hormones are going berserk.

I have turned into a total bitch at the boss, I have emptied my diet coke on the guy behind me at the Dairy Queen and I have berated my SO numerous times. I have also apologized Every. Single. Time. and vowed to never go there again. Somehow, my normal peaceful nature and my usual analytical/I-can-control this if I. JUST. TRY. HARD. ENOUGH. get superseded by hormones every time.

I try hard, through both pschychogical and pharmeceutical means. It isn’t always controllable, even when I have the following mantra running through my head: “I am not crazy, I am hormonal, I know this, therefore I should be able to control it.”

You are being <loshan looking to see what forum she’s in> unfortunately pendantic in your opinion.

If I could make this stop, I would.
Do you actually think women do this because it’s fun? Do you think we like making people we love (or barely know) feel bad and then blaming some chemical as the reason? Seriously, I hate this and consequently hate myself for being like this. I choose not to have have these impulses, and yet they persist.

I have done all that is possible to get this under control. Short of a total hysterectomy which is not otherwise indicated (and the subsequent pharmeceutical interventions) I have done everything I can do to try to change this state of affairs. This is not a moral failing on my part. It is simply part of being a female human.

I’m sure you wouldn’t complain if all this hormonal fluctuation involved my ass turning red and me (or any woman) backing up to you while looking over my shoulder with a lascivious grin on my face.:smack:

I don’t know what issues are currently in play in your life, but as **MsWhatsit **said:

PMS makes you a bit tetchy and oversensitive, it’s easy to lock down those feelings with a bit of self-awareness.

PMDD changes your brain chemistry to the point where you cannot distinguish appropriate from inappropriate reactions to what may be completely harmless acts and statements from other people. It colours your interactions with EVERYONE, not just your husband or kids - every single person you come in contact with. It tells you that these people are out to hurt you, to deliberately destroy you, to frustrate you and to wreck everything you touch.

For some women it manifests like a bout of clinical depression, rendering them bedridden, unable to move because what’s the fucking point, it’s all worthless and pointless and nobody loves you and you’re an absolute failure as a human being - everyone you deal with hates you, wants to take everything away from you. For other women it manifests as rage, a simmering litany in her head about how everyone is out to destroy her, how stupid they are, how much they’re deliberately interfering in her work and life to fuck her over.

But even with the “This is just hormonal” self-talk, the brain overrides that. THIS time it’s not hormonal, THIS time it’s fully justified rage/depression/self hate because THIS time it’s different. Couple that with an irregular cycle, so you can’t just handily notch out 28 days on every calendar and go “Oh, it’s THAT TIME OF THE MONTH”, and it can get out of hand before you even realise what is going on.

But if you don’t have direct experience with PMDD and how significantly it can change your thinking and affect how your brain works, how about you shut up about what women SHOULD do. Because I can guarantee the women here who suffer from actual PMDD, rather than just using PMS as an excuse, have already tried it and you’re just coming across as a sanctimonious arse who thinks they’ve got all the answers.

Dare I ask?

Dare you ask what?

Yes, I suffer from PMDD. I have tried cognitive behaviour therapy, a range of anti-depressants, diet changes, birth control, sedatives and at extremes, locking myself away from people if I can identify in time that I’m reaching that portion of my cycle.

The problem with antidepressants is that to be effective you need to be taking them all the time, you can’t just start and stop as your cycle goes around. And I develop tolerances to them very quickly. So they only work for a few months before I have to increase the dosage, which has other side effects as it goes up. Benzodiazepines work GREAT - as long as I’m constantly taking them from the onset of symptoms to the time they pass, which can be anywhere from two days to a week. And doctors in these parts don’t like handing out benzos for that sort of situation, plus the whole “Walking around in a drugged-out haze” isn’t much better career-wise than the simmering rage is. Diet changes only make so much difference, and I’ve never been one of the people who gets endorphins and joy from hard exercise, I just end up feeling sweaty and out of sorts and more put-upon.

I currently have a birth control implant that gives 3 years of birth control. It has the side effect of stopping my period entirely for the first 12-16 months of that 3 year cycle. That slightly flattens the peaks and troughs of the hormonal fluctuations, but doesn’t cease them entirely. But without the physical signs of a period approaching, it makes it even harder to establish if what I’m feeling is a justified response to a stimulus, or a massive overreaction. If I’m under any other sort of emotional stress at the time (which I am at the moment, currently going through a protracted divorce, still living with my ex husband in a house that’s in a state you’d see on hoarders, trapped in a job I hate by crushing levels of debt I incurred whilst my ex was critically ill and I was nursing him in addition to working full time), it can very easily get away from me and get to the point where I do snap. And it’s not just at my (ex) husband. It can be anyone at any time, for any reason.

I have walked out in tears on an Assistant Director of our department - a guy second only to our Ministerial Director, the head of our whole department - because in the “discussion” we got into, he told me that our team HAD been consulted in the consultancy period of a proposed system upgrade that fell into a complete hash, and that we had “chosen” not to respond to the consultancy request. In my mind I felt he was attacking me and the work I did to try and support my team - despite that I wasn’t even in the team at the time that it all had happened, because I’d been seconded to another department entirely. But I’d become wrapped up and emotionally invested in this system situation, and all I could see when he was telling me this is that I had fucked up, and that we deserved what was happening to us because we refused to engage in the consultancy procedure.

And in my mind it was walk out in tears of frustration, or tell him exactly how far up his own arse his fat fucking head was, because he sat in Canberra jerking off all day and didn’t have the first fucking clue about what we did at the state level, as was adequately displayed by the fact that every time we turned around, he was issuing more proclamations about how we SHOULD do our job without actually looking at HOW we had to do our work effectively and efficiently.

In hindsight, I can see now I was approaching the peak of my cycle. I was stressed from my breakdown and the new system not working properly. But at the time all I could see was this person who knew NOTHING telling those of us who had to do everything day-to-day and work with this wholly broken system, that we had failed and deserved everything happening to us. But my response was wholly disproportionate and I couldn’t see that at the time. All I could see was the stimulus in front of me, and the response was almost instinctive.

I don’t understand what’s wrong with this. When I’m in a bad mood, due to PMS or otherwise, I tend to keep to myself to avoid inflicting my bad mood on others. The only time I get snappish if I then get repeatedly pestered anyway. Someone avoiding me then would be happier for it, and so would I.

I also leave people of both genders alone when they’re in foul moods too, so I hardly see it as sexist rather than sensibly deciding not to further antagonize people who have already demonstrated a lack of desire for my company.

See, this I can understand, and empathize with. If your hormones make your behavior uncontrollable in all situations, then that is something that I can say “I have never been affected by hormones in this way, but I can see that it does affect some in this manner”.

If the situation for you is as you describe above, then you are not in the group of women I’ve been referring to in this thread. I have been referring to women who keep it under control in some situations (e.g. at the office, where at most they go to the bathroom to cry it out in private, and don’t berate their colleagues), and then come home and “are not able to” keep it under control and end up berating their SO’s.

I’ve seen this scenario-specific behavior from both men and women.

Some men claim that they in general anger easily and there’s not much they can do about it, and some women claim that this is the case during their PMS days. And I have seen cases of both where the ‘easily irritable person’ would get angry at a loved one about something minor, and go on and on about it, and then if the situation changed, e.g. if they were due to meet some friends, the outburst would stop, and the person would be back to behaving normally, or at least politely (and if they were not meeting friends the outburst would have continued for many more hours)

Yes, there are some men and women whose anger is so out of control that it affects them in all situations, and they truly cannot control it.

But it’s the situation-specific ‘out of control anger’ people I have an issue with.

Your case does seem severe and I can empathize with you, and hope you get past your current stressful situation.

Even in your severe case, however, you say the following:

Do you think that you made a conscious choice to walk out in tears versus tell him “exactly how far up his own arse his fat fucking head was, because he sat in Canberra jerking off all day”? And do you think your choice of which of these two approaches to use was affected by the fact that he was the “guy second only to our Ministerial Director, the head of our whole department”, and that you would have chosen the latter approach if it was someone else?

Do you think that storming out in tears is an appropriate behavior at work?

No, but it is infinitely preferable to telling the second highest guy in your department “exactly how far up his own arse his fat fucking head was, because he sat in Canberra jerking off all day”.

I’m guessing there is some level of conscious choice which of the two approaches to take, and that the choice ends up being the latter (i.e. telling them “exactly how far up his own arse his fat fucking head was”) if the person who is causing you this much grief is not in a ‘protected category’.

Right, but my point is, this is still inappropriate and undesirable behavior. So for all you know, the person who just chucked an entire Dairy Queen frosted ice-cream cake at your head might have gone with that option instead of throwing the machete, or whatever. (I’m just blue-skying here. Don’t know what your personal experience has been. Hopefully it has not involved either aerodynamic ice-cream cakes or machetes.)

Agreed.

The way I see it, there is a whole range of things that she could have done in that situation:
[ol]
[li]Keep quiet[/li][li]Quietly excuse herself and leave the room[/li][li]Storm out in tears[/li][li]Tell him exactly how far up his own arse his fat fucking head was, because he sat in Canberra jerking off all day[/li][/ol]
and I think that the higher up the ranks someone is, the higher up in the above list would be the response. For example, the POTUS would likely get response #1 or at most #2, the CEO would get #2, the Assistant Director got #3, and some lower fellow would get #4.

Of course, things may not happen that way, and people with these mood swings may randomly select any of the responses #1 to #4, no matter who they are interacting with, but I find that unlikely in all but the most extreme cases. I think that in most cases, there is some sort of rational calculation and conscious control of which level of response to go with, and that calculation takes into account, among other things, who you are talking to.

If in your case, you have no conscious control of which level of response to go with, and your emotions randomly select a number from 1 to 4, no matter who you are talking to, let me know.

Thankfully, there are no projectiles involved in my case :slight_smile:

By the way, does the Dairy Queen frosted ice-cream cake taste as good as it sounds?

Um, Polerius, do you feel like someone is looking at us?

It’s hard to say if it was a conscious decision or not. Everything I write here is with the benefit of hindsight, after having had several months to think about not only my actions but the ramifications thereof. Rumour from some people who were attending the meeting as well is that I very well could have lost my job over this, and it was only fast talking by my manager that managed to defuse the situation. I don’t know because all I could see at the time was the tunnel with me at one end, and him attacking me at the other. At the time I didn’t give a flying fuck who he was. He could have been anyone but he was attacking me and I didn’t know any other way to respond, I was so frustrated and angry that I couldn’t think straight.

But the point still is that in hindsight it’s easy to say “I did this rather than did that” or that I may have made a conscious choice on some level. At the time, I honestly think I did not.