So, I was readingthis interesting story about various Nato countries refusing or equivocating about sending troops to Afganistan, and having my daily “Oh god, everything’s going to hell in a handbasket, we’ll all die horribly” moment, when I noticed an interesting quote from the Prez.
New rule, everyone! Only Americans can question the American government!
Now, i’d be the first to say 9/11 affected Americans very much more than any other nation. That would be a fair point to make. But bad day? The U.S. is not the only nation that’s drastically altered it’s foreign (and domestic) policies since 9/11. I think you’ll find there were a lot of changed attitudes outside of America, you cret…Uhm. I mean, what an excellent statement of facts. All hail Bush.
All the spin bullshit aside, I expect that my president isn’t going to change his policy decisions in order to ingratiate himself to citizens of other countries. Obviously, he has to work with other leaders, but ultimately his responsibility is to his citizens.
Ergo, I don’t really give a shit what you think about my nation’s security policy.
Well, sure he’s operating within the law. Because he just rewrites the laws in his own head, or issues signing memos saying he’ll ignore what he doesn’t like, and then places [del]toadies[/del] key personnel in positions to tell him what he wants to hear.
Besides, he’s above the law. Don’t you America-haters know anything?
I don’t see anything in there that suggests or even hints that non-Americans are disallowed from criticizing the U.S. government. In fact, isn’t your President supposed to put the needs and desires of Americans above other interests? Isn’t that why you hired him?
By the way, your government was fucked up when the cult of celebrity slimed into the White House.
Oh, I do apologise. I seem to have given the impression that I was making that argument.
Duh, his reponsibility is to his citizens. Duh, he’s going to put American interests above British interests, or Chinese interests, or Martian interests; and good for him for doing so.
What would be stupid, though, would be to ignore or ridicule other nation’s concerns because they’re not of your country. Because, hey, if you’re an American, your ideas on security policy are all first-class, while mine, as a foreigner, are innately stupid and foolish and unworthy of consideration. And of course, that the U.S. is powerful enough that your security policy affects all the rest of us doesn’t mean we get a vote in your country, and that’s perfectly reasonable. On the other hand, it does mean that we have a vested interest in trying to help you out, so our advice isn’t really going to fuck you over.
You don’t give a shit about what I think? Fine by me. Do you give a shit about what Iraqis think about your security policy? Because that’s kinda important at the moment, even if other opinions are not immediately so.
Lets see as a citizen of our Country’s best ally, I am more than willing to listen to your reasonable critiques of how our government is handling this little adventure he got us into under possibly false information and for no reasons related to terrorism.
I have to listen to Iraqis as we have now made a royal mess of their shit-hole of a country; somehow it is now worse than under their despot. “Good job Bushie.”
I do choose to continue to ignore critiques however from nations that hated America before Bush got in office. That would be Cuba, China, Iran, North Korea, Syria and France of course.
I am most open to complaints from our best allies. Please feel free to ignore our President and continue to provide us an outsiders view.
It woudl be foolish to ignore the concerns of other nations. However, it is not foolish to ignore the views of other nation’s citizens. GWB seems to listen to your PM, as he should. GWB shouldn’t give a goodgoddamn what you say. You see the difference?
Don’t take that to mean I actually support Bush’s choices, I voted against him pretty much entirely because of Iraq. I think the war in Iraq was a very bad decision WRT my nation’s security. Also understand that I think it is important to have a good working relationship with other nations. It’s just that decisions by my government, right or wrong, are my responsibility, I don’t like outsiders sticking their noses into it.
For the record, I also felt this provincial when Dopers were slamming my state’s laws regarding gas pumping, so it’s not just a world politics thing.
All the spin bullshit aside, I remember that the last time the president visited those three locations on 9-11. It was 2004 and right before a presidential election.
I don’t remember him dragging his lazy thinking ass to NYC last year any time in September.
And yet, he’s been here this year, and coincidentally right before mid-term elections.
Dare I draw any conclusions from this? Maybe its all lies from the ‘Librul Media’.
Any bets on whether he’ll be in NYC next year on 9-11? Please bookmark my post in this thread so it can be resurrected next Fall.
Sure, you feel nice and safe talking trash about Teddy Roosevelt now, don’t you? Thanks for pointing out that the President’s main concern is to put America’s interests over those of other nations, because it worked out so well for us when he was making Canada his bitch. Just be thankful that the modern boundary of Alaska isn’t the Atlantic Ocean.
I do indeed, and I agree, partially. Of course he shouldn’t give a crap what* I * say; who am I? But it’s not just leaders of nations that deserve attention. Protestors (at a certain scale; i’m not talking three people with a placard, here) turn out to picket a rally, that’s a reasonable indication that something isn’t going right; at the very least, it would be wise to listen to their arguments so as to find out how they could be so wrong. And there’s always organisations like the U.N. or Amnesty International whose views are generally worthy of listening to, at the least.
Plus, leaders are not always leaders, at least in the case of many countries. Tony Blair is PM now, but his part in the Iraq war is a large factor in his current support problems. Merely because Blair is pro-war, doesn’t mean the majority of Brits also are. Of course, Blair is the PM and so the one with the power; but like I said, leaders are not always leaders. The next PM is likely to not be so pro-war. That this issue has alienated a good amount of the U.S.'s best ally is not something to be ignored.
Look at it this way; if Iraqis had greeted U.S. troops as liberators, and still did, I imagine your stance on the war would be considerably different. I know mine would. But, because a significant number have had quite the opposite reaction, U.S. security is not so good at the moment. So really the opinions and actions of Iraqis do affect your opinion of security policy; you might not care actively, but there is no denying that one has led (in part) to the other. Likewise, should one country start building nuclear weapons due to the security policy of my country, I think i’d take a good look at what I was doing - it’s just in my best interests to do so. The U.S. does not exist in a vacuum - it affects and is affected by the policies of many other countries.
I guess it just seems a bit strange to me. If a lot of people are thinking my country or state’s laws or actions are stupid, that’s pretty important news. At the very least i’d think about reevaluating my position - not following their lead or bowing to their wishes - just, well, listening. And considering.
Time to take some remedial reading classes. Bush just made mention of the fact that foreigners second guess him all the time. He never even said they shouldn’t he just simply recgonized the fact.
Indeed - the leader of the British Conservatives, and possible next PM: has just distanced [the] Tories from Bush. If I trusted him*, I’d vote for that.
But many in the USA do feel they live in a vacuum. We are the World’s only super power; just ask us. We have affected world culture more than any other country ever. (Of course that is because of Hollywood, not our Government).
We are the most important nation on Earth; again just ask us.
We have rarely cared about the opinion of any other country.
There are many like me that have a great respect and admiration for our Anglo Allies, but many do not even feel that. Personally I grew up in a world where Europe, Canada, the USSR, Japan and China were the only nations that mattered. Every other nation was just a pawn. I think many American still feel the same way.
