I always knew Cheney was quick to temper after that, "Go fuck yourself,"...

[eleanorigby]

@Merijeek

Thanks. Considering how Texans just won’t STFU about the Six Flags (at least in my experience) I sometimes forget that some people don’t actually know the relevance…

-Joe

The sad thing is that I did know the reference, I just didnt’ clue in.

:smack:

Will someone cover for me, please?

[David_Simmons]

@eleanorigby

I’m an honest person and I wouldnt’ tell a lie, but I sure hope that if I am shot in Texas that the sheriff moseys over to check, things out in a more timely fashion, say, after his sun tea is done brewing and all.
Morons. Utter morons.

I touched on this subject in aprevious post in this thread. Dammit, we need a tongue-in-cheek smilie, but I guess maybe the rolleyes :rolleyes: would do.

[ElvisL1ves]

@EddyTeddyFreddy

Naw, the man would need blood rather than icewater in his veins for that.

The “secure, undisclosed location” he keeps running off to could be Room 239 at the Austin Airport Holiday Inn, for all we know.

[RTFirefly]

@lieu

Honestly RT, I’m a bit dumbfounded by everyone’s insistence that there’s some huge coverup going on despite consistent reports to the contrary from those that would be most affected were that to be true. So now we’ve got the sheriff, his deputies, an ex-sheriff, the Secret Service, Cheney, the ambassador to Switzerland, eyewitnesses to the accident, dedgum Whittington himself, his family and his doctors ALL CONSPIRING TO HIDE EXACTLY WHAT???

Cheney said he did it. It was an accident. He didn’t benefit one bit from it being reported the next day or from it coming from the CC paper instead of the NY Times.

Man, I totally understand not liking Cheney but people are blowing this all out of proportion in their zeal to do his reputation and standing harm.

Add one part eleanorigby and perhaps another part Fear Itself.

Even if one couldn’t figure out what they could possibly be covering up, it seems they’ve gone to an unusual amount of trouble to do so, doesn’t it?

There are two obvious coverup candidates:

1. As mentioned, they could have been covering up possible drinking on Cheney’s part, or that he was hunting while under the influence of bad interactions between an otherwise perfectly reasonable beer or two, and otherwise perfectly reasonable prescription meds. Unless someone can get new witnesses to testify (and there are several available - Ambassador Pamela Williford (the third shooter in the party), the guide (Cheney said there was one), the Secret Service, and maybe even the hired help who prepared and cleaned up after the lunch, if they existed), we’ll never know about this.

2. The other one, which I haven’t seen mentioned, is that they hoped to cover up the seriousness of the injuries to Whittington, with the thought that that would have made it more likely for the public to just laugh the whole thing off. And that attempted coverup is hiding in plain sight - they did their level best to send Katharine Armstrong out there to make light of his injuries - and if not for the heart attack, they might’ve succeeded on that score.

At any rate, for your linking pleasure, here’s a detailed comparison of Katharine Armstrong’s assorted stories with each other. She doesn’t agree with herself, let alone with Cheney. It’s an alternation of links, quotes, and commentary, just like a good Doper post, so it’s best if you just go there and read it yourself.

[RTFirefly]

@lieu

Honestly RT, I’m a bit dumbfounded by everyone’s insistence that there’s some huge coverup going on despite consistent reports to the contrary from those that would be most affected were that to be true. So now we’ve got the sheriff, his deputies, an ex-sheriff, the Secret Service, Cheney, the ambassador to Switzerland, eyewitnesses to the accident, dedgum Whittington himself, his family and his doctors ALL CONSPIRING TO HIDE EXACTLY WHAT???

You forgot the U.S. Border Patrol agent.

No, really. Post #408. WTF was a Border Patrol agent doing there??

I mean, even if nothing was being covered up, it’s like trying to unravel all the conflicting tales from Murder on theOrient Express.

[RTFirefly]

The police report, or at least as much as they’ve released to the public.

[RTFirefly]

Just to make my earlier point clear: I don’t see any conspiracy. Along the lines of eleanorigby, what I see are Cheney, the Armstrongs, etc. assuming the prerogatives of landed gentry, and the Secret Service and the local constabulary buying into it and treating them with inappropriate deference.

[lieu]

“You forgot the U.S. Border Patrol agent.”

Heh, actually I didn’t. He simply struck me as a non-entity, having made no statement on the event.

I read your link too and everything seemed easily explainable. Armstrong certainly took part in the group assisting Whittington and heard the discussions going on there about what had happened between witnesses, including whether he announced, etc. She also is simply over zealous in wanting to protect the VP but that does not necessitate her having been coached by Rove or anyone else.

It’s funny, two people can read the exact same story and come away with completely different perceptions on what happened. When I read the story from Salinas you posted above, my first impression was “Well there, that ought to put an end to any speculation.” But instead the comments have rung of “See! Even a whole bunch of law enforcement and ranch workers are involved. This conspiracy must be even bigger than we thought!”

I don’t blame anyone for harboring the exact same sentiment as kaylasdad99. Maybe we’re just getting there in two different ways.

What’s the old adage… something about how if there’s a simple and a complex solution to any problem, more than likely the simple one will be correct. With that in mind, you’ve either got an extremely well-orchestrated contingent of disparate individuals and agencies all brought together in remarkably short time with a common goal of perpetuating a lie to protect a not too popular individual, OR… it was just an accident.

[RTFirefly]

@RTFirefly

The police report, or at least as much as they’ve released to the public.

I see Whittington told the deputy that there was no alcohol on the hunt, contrary to what Cheney said yesterday, and what Armstrong said on Tuesday or Wednesday.

The unidentified Border Patrol agent is mentioned on page 4 of the police report. It was this agent, rather than the Secret Service, who turned away Captain Kirk (don’t’cha just love saying that?) of the Sheriff’s office at the Armstrong Ranch gate on Saturday evening. So I retract what I said about the Secret Service just now: it had been reported earlier that it was Secret Service who turned Kirk away, but apparently not.

[lieu]

@RTFirefly

I don’t see any conspiracy. Along the lines of eleanorigby, what I see are Cheney, the Armstrongs, etc. assuming the prerogatives of landed gentry, and the Secret Service and the local constabulary buying into it and treating them with inappropriate deference.

Understood. I might buy into a diluted bit of that myself.

[RTFirefly]

Well, dayum, lieu, that’s no fair. If you just go and at least semi-agree with me, I’ve got to toss away a bunch of now-meaningless words.

Similarly, I’m satisfied with exactly what you say here - “simply over zealous in wanting to protect the VP.”

But even though we pretty much have a meeting of the minds, I’m going to at least review some of the bidding, since I’ve marshalled the facts.

1. From Sunday until midday Tuesday (when news of Whittington’s heart attack came over the wires), everyone from Katharine Armstrong to Jeb Bush was making light of Whittington’s injuries - and that Armstrong, Cheney, Whittington, Williford, and especially the doctor, I’m sure, knew all along that those injuries were much more serious.

2. Armstrong and Whittington both initially said that there was no alcohol involved in the day’s activities.

That’s the gist of it, really. A minor cover-up of something that was more of a serious embarrassment than a crime, but people cover up embarrassing stuff all the time.

There’s still the willingness of the local sheriff to take ‘no’ for an answer on Saturday evening, which, like I said, I put down to inappropriate deference to the local landed (50,000 acres qualifies as ‘landed’, even in Texas) gentry, rather than to any conspiratorial motives.

I have no idea about the border patrol guy. Was he stalling on behalf of the Armstrongs? Did he just not know anything of note had happened? Damned if I know. I’m thinking that if I were a reporter on the story, I’d want to find his name, track him down, and ask him. Starting with, “does the Armstrong Ranch normally host Border Patrol agents?” But really, no evidence that this guy was part of a conspiracy, even if he inadvertently played a key role. Chances are it just happened. It’s still a loose end, but chances are nothing important’s down that road.

Similarly with the former sheriff now working for the Armstrongs. Presumably at the time the sheriff called him, the Armstrongs hadn’t had time to think about him in terms of what he might tell the police; it was pretty early yet. So whether he was making light of the incident out of loyalty to the Armstrongs, or whether, as far as he knew, it really was no big deal, who knows? It happened. No evidence of conspiracy.

So that’s my non-conspiracy. A handful of rich, influential people, going to a fair amount of trouble to (mostly unsuccessfully) minimize the impact of an embarrassing incident on one of their number.

[Little_Nemo]

So have you heard about the new gun safety program being developed? Its motto is going to be “When it comes to Gun Safety, Don’t be a Dick”

[RTFirefly]

@RTFirefly

So that’s my non-conspiracy. A handful of rich, influential people, going to a fair amount of trouble to (mostly unsuccessfully) minimize the impact of an embarrassing incident on one of their number.

And they may have rolled the dice with Harry Whittington’s life and health to do so.

From the Corpus Christi Caller-Times (registration required):

The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area’s trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.

Both Cheney’s office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

“I can’t comment to why he wasn’t flown,” Zahren said. “The medical folks that were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene. Decisions were made on their advice at that point.”

Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m., Zahren said.

“It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president’s visit,” Zahren said. “It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim.”

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

“Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a doctor preference,” Rowe said.

The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said.

So between dithering about where to take Whittington, and the detour to the smaller local hospital, it wasn’t until about 2 hours and 50 minutes after being shot that they got Whittington to the doors of a hospital with a trauma unit.

Correct this doc if he’s wrong, but:

WHY IN THE HELL DIDN’T THE WHITE HOUSE DOCS SEND THE TRAUMA VICTIM TO THE NEAREST TRAUMA HOSPITAL?

Hi folks -

This stinks to high heaven - even in Texas.

Q: What variable determines survival after severe gunshot wounds to the head, neck, and torso?

A: How long it takes the trauma victim to receive trauma center care (or the equivalent).

The White House docs, of all people, know this. So does the Secret Service - when Reagan was shot in D.C., there were published reports of the SS cleaning out the civvies waiting in ER at gunpoint. They knew how to cut down on the wait - and they knew why.

I have every reason to believe the White House docs in Cheney’s traveling ICU have excellent trauma medicine skills.

So I have all the more reason to ask what they were thinking of when they decided that the 78 year old victim of severe gunshot wounds needed the slow ambulance ride to the local non-trauma hospital - rather than the fast chopper ride to the trauma center?

I’ve heard before about trauma center care being the key variable, so I suspect it’s true. And if true, it’s hard to argue that the docs and Secret Service accompanying Cheney wouldn’t know this too.

So it looks like the same non-conspiracy, but with the stakes a wee tad higher. Risking a man’s life to reduce vice-presidential embarrassment is a big deal.

[eleanorigby]

I have no conspiracy theory, but there is alot that is odd about this whole thing. Why the local paper? Why Armstrong? Why the podunk (and I work at one, so I can say that) hospital? Someone lacks common sense and critical thinking skills,but I’ll leave it there.

[Contrapuntal]

@RTFirefly

Well, it may have been one of the worst days of his life, but at least he and his friends went back and got a decent dinner while they awaited news from the hospital. :rolleyes:

Well that was pretty much my point. Cheney shoots a guy and it is a bad day for him.

[Lama_Pacos]

From CNN:

Whittington, speaking to reporters outside the hospital where he was treated, added: “My family and I are deeply sorry for all that Vice President Cheney and his family have had to go through this week.”

Man, this guy is such an asshole for shooting the vice president!

[World_Eater]

“I’m sorry you shot me in my fucking face”

:rolleyes: x 1,000,000

[Frank]

@World Eater

“I’m sorry you shot me in my fucking face”

:rolleyes: x 1,000,000

I’ll bet they promised him the next Supreme Court seat.

[World_Eater]

@Frank

I’ll bet they promised him the next Supreme Court seat.

I was wondering that myself. I bet there are a lot of 0’s on his check.

[Fear_Itself]

@Frank

I’ll bet they promised him the next Supreme Court seat.

I smell a Medal of Freedom for someone…