Well, since this thread is obviously just another ‘Trayvon/Zimmerman’ discussion, and is equally obviously not talking about some hypothetical:
[QUOTE=Chronos]
Wait, so let me see if I’ve got this straight: Zimmerman has a legitimate claim to self-defense, because it’s conceivable that he legitimately feared that the guy he got out of his car to chase down was going to kill him, but Trayvon wouldn’t have a legitimate claim to self-defense, because he had no way of knowing that the guy who was chasing him with a gun intended him any harm?
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Well, leaving aside your spin, I’d have to say that ‘it depends’ is the answer…or ‘it could go either way’. It could be that Zimmerman (I’m unsure what folks think he’s ‘white’) has a legitimate claim for ‘self-defense’…I’d say that’s likely right now, since afaik he hasn’t been officially charged with a crime to this point. Assuming his story is true, and he confronted Trayvon, who then turned on him and started a fight, he could legitimately thought his life was in danger. Or, Trayvon, being confronted by Zimmerman, who was following him, could have thought HIS life was in danger and was acting in ‘self-defense’ (though the smart thing for him to have done, unless he was cornered, has been outlined in several ways in this thread…which boils down to ‘run away and call the police’).
SYG works fine if a guy steals your car radio, you chase after him with a knife, he swings the bag of radios at you (and misses), and you stab him to death
But as I’ve pointed out repeatedly, he’s only the defendant because he happens to be the one still alive. The way SYG law is written (and the way most self-defense laws are written), only one of them can possibly have the right to defend themselves–the one who did not initiate the assault.
Oh, and the very fact that hoodies and grills are part of the toughguy image is reason you shouldn’t get all scared. The key word there is image. It’s like getting scared of the affluent college kid that wears baggy pants. You are seriously misinformed if you think either indicates that you are in a gang or something. And to be that misinformed when you grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of black people, I do have to wonder if you are racist. It’s not 100%, but it does make me wonder.
Judging by how Terr is continuing to defend Zimmerman even after the release of the video of Zimmerman barely half-an-hour after his altercation with Martin, the answer is “not much”.
The OP gave a scenario to which people responded. It may have been a thinly veiled attempt to discuss the TM case, but some of us chose to answer the question that was asked and not interject opinions about a case not mentioned in the OP.
Judging by how Terr is continuing to defend Zimmerman even after the release of the video of Zimmerman barely half-an-hour after his altercation with Martin, the answer is “not much”.
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The answer, according to Florida’s SYG law is “not at all”. The law does not require any injuries to be present in order for the killing to be in self defense.
First of all I’ll recommend what you shouldn’t do: Don’t punch him in the face and proceed to beat him senseless for no reason. If you do that, he might pull a gun and shoot you, as he is entirely in his rights to do.
Now that we’ve got that straight, do basically anything else and you won’t get shot. I recommend that when he asks what you are doing in the area you simply explain that you are visiting family members and give the street number and maybe a phone number of where you are staying.
I read this forgetting what news story it is about. Context is important. Is he a creepy guy because he likes 17 year old boys? Or is he a creepy guy because he does not like 17 year old boys walking around on a dark and rainy night? Why are you ignoring his questions? Maybe that’s why he is aggressively approaching you. Do you know who he is? Maybe he lives there. Maybe he is a neighboor. He does not appear to be wearing a uniform from your description. Maybe he is an undercover police officer or something like that.
Zimmerman may have a legitmate claim of self defense because witnesses have corroborated his claim that Martin was on top of him, ramming his head into the sidewalk. There is audio evidence of him screaming for help. Since we know that having one’s head bashed against a sidewalk can be fatal it is very plausible that the self defense claim is true.
Martin may have had a legitimate claim of self defense but the facts do no yet support that claim. The only witness to the interaction between them, the girlfriend, says that she heard Zimmerman asking Martin what he was doing there. Since asking questions is not an attack, there is no evidence that Martin acted in self defense. The girlfriend has not said anything about Martin knowing that Zimmerman had a gun and there are no witnesses that we know of that Zimmerman brandished his gun before the shooting.
It is easy to imagine scenarios where Martin may have acted in self defense but we do not have any evidence of those scenarios.
None of this is definitively corroborated. They weren’t on a sidewalk, other witnesses say Zimmerman was on top, and I’ve seen a few audio experts say Martin was screaming for help.
On the other hand you might find yourself feeling legitimately threatened if someone is following you.
I am sure you know what I’m referring to: the mother of one witness says he saw Zimmerman on top was pressured to change his story. I am not saying she’s right, but it should be noted that that version of events is not undisputed.
