I am about to lose a long-time friend over Trump

Politics & Elections
21

“Showing true colors”, the phrasing suggests somethign that does not come from herself but from sources – talking points, posts, statements from the Trumpist ecosystem.

OTOH, being the first to bring up intemperate rage opens one up to the other person accusing you of being the one who has hate – it is a common phenomenon in such conversations. I know, I know… I know… “the old rules of discourse only help the RACIST FASCISTS get away with their shit, you HAVE to call it what it is and owe NO consideration!!!” Fine.

But the ease with which some here will say “just dump from your life friends and family who are not on the Right Side of History, there was NEVER any friendship or love, they are only capable of hurting you!!!” is a bit well, surprising. Especially in the case of family, some of us really DO have to continue to have these people in our lives in one way or another. And people with whom you have shared important life stages, who you have relied upon, you don’t just shake them off like pants that don’t fit. It’s painful. It’s not easy.

22

Saying that Trump is a piece of shit is not in any way a hateful statement. It is merely an objective observation of fact.

23

I only have a handful of Trump supporters I’m friends with and we haven’t purged one another yet. I don’t typically post anything political on social media but I have been in the last three days and I’ve been extremely critical of Trump. I only had one person call me out for my criticism but we haven’t purged each other yet.

I’m going to avoid purging people in part because I want them to at least be exposed to non-crazy ideas. I don’t want them to slink further and further into a world where they only communicate with those who share their delusions. My mother is an ardent Trump supporter and I would occasionally reply to her comments about Trump having the election stolen from him. But she’s moved on to Parler and I’m sure has hell not going to follow her there. So in that sense, at least on social media, I’ve been purged.

24

It’s unfair to shit.

25

I think that the language “Showing true colors” is also a form of either dog whistle accusations by a racist or statement that true colors are something to do with nationalist flags - by showing true colors that are pobviously not the patriotic ones.

Could even be the accuser is actually stating that under the white skin is a person of color that is now starting to show. Given the sort of background I would lay money on some racist or neo nazi context

26

I’m dreading the weekly Zoom call with elderly mom and siblings (all right-wingers). I’m afraid I’m going to start yelling, or maybe just calmly saying “I’m so upset about the Capitol that I really can’t talk to anyone who was complicit in that, even if it was just by voting Trump into power.”

How the hell can I avoid all that and just chit-chat about their favorite TV shows and little Chumley’s cricket match?

27

I was avoiding posting Political stuff on FB. Until Jan 6th. Now- fuck 'em.

28

Really? It’s been a very common phrase in my experience. I think you’re reaching here.

Now that OP has told us what he wrote that lead to the woman’s response, I agree with the poster who said to just respond in a definite but emotionally neutral tone to cut off the current exchange, and see what develops. You can always cut her off if she is intractable. It sounds like both the OP and the woman responded in overly-emotional terms during a stressful time, and should perhaps give each other a chance to cool down. Perhaps agree to disagree, and agree not to bring up polarizing issues between them – if the rest of the relationship is worth it.

29

Maybe it’s tantamount to tone policing, but I’d be wary of a friend on Facebook who posted even views that I agreed with in that sort of way. Suppose that I were pro-Trump (I’m not, but suppose,) and someone wrote, “Biden is a socialist, treasonous, un-patriotic, CCP-loving, America-hating fucking piece of shit” - I might be clicking that “unfriend” button as well.

On many issues, I’d rather have a civil opponent than an uncivil ally.

30

Sure; that totally sounds like something a Trumper would do: unfriend someone who dissed Biden with colorful language. :roll_eyes:

They just attacked the Capitol, dude, with the intent to hang their own Vice President.

I find the scenario you describe as utterly unlikely if it involved a real Trumper.

31

I agree Bo, that seems pretty unrealistic.

I mean… Okay, I’m very much opposed to anything Trump and absolutely understand Trump bashing, even with extreme language. But if someone only went on social media to rant about how much they hated Trump I might unfriend them; not due to being offended but because they’re boring. If they just keep saying the same crap over and over I’m eventually going to get tired of seeing it.

I imagine someone who supports Trump and dislikes Biden might similarly do the same if their friend only rants against Biden and has nothing original or interesting to say. But not if they just went off on him one time. People need to vent once in awhile and especially if you agree with them, you can overlook the occasional incivility.

32

I typically don’t post anything of a political nature on social media but I’ve been calling out Trump and his insurrection for the last few days. Only one of my Trump supporting friends has replied, asking me what I thought about BLM for some reason, but there’s been no purging yet. My mother deleted her Facebook account and has gone over to Parler so in a way I guess she’s purged me on social media. My sister hasn’t deleted her Facebook account but she hasn’t posted anything since the end of December and I’m pretty sure she’s on Parler too.

33

What are the people who went to Parler going to do now the tech companies have cut their support of the app? Meekly como back to FB & Twitter? Rediscover e-mail and SMS? Sulk?

34

I take an extremist stance towards losing friends who espouse Trumpist views (“You’re better off to lose them”) but, while recognizing that it IS extreme to cut old friends loose, I don’t see why this is so extreme. I mean, look at it like this: these people have revealed to you at AT BEST they’re tolerant of racism, and probably have all but admitted openly that they are themselves racists. (“Racism” is just one issue here–this is just an example.) In continuing to befriend such people, you’re being complicit in racism yourself (much as they might own up to befriending the “real” racists but not being themselves racists) . You IOW are as bad as they are. Each iteration of friendship waters down the actual racism, but all you can control is who you choose to befriend, just like them. At some point, and THIS NOW is the only point available to you to choose, a decision must be made: “I need to cut this person, and his toxic beliefs/enabling out of my life.” It is a courageous (if sad) choice to make.

35

Roger that indeed.

My anti-Trump tirade was, I’m sure, my first Facebook rant ever. It was posted in response to the Capitol storming but it was a long time coming. I don’t expect it will be a habit. But I don’t regret it.

That said, as I age I am becoming more comfortable being myself. Speaking out. Becoming less concerned about how peripheral people in my life might react to something I say or do.

My friend is not only very pro-Trump but also, as I’ve mentioned, deeply religious. That part doesn’t bother me as much, wouldn’t be a game-changer in fact, but it illustrates how fundamentally different we are. I can choose to not have a personal relationship with someone like that. Life’s too short, as they say.

Thanks, Roger_That, for your post.

mmm

36

Trumpers are always posting stuff on Facebook—I don’t see a lot of anti-Trump stuff. I think it mirrors this thread, that many of us throw up our hands. I posted something the other day—not a rant but disagreeing with storming the capitol. I think it cost me a friend, because he’s no longer on my list.

ISTM that if we lose friends and family over this and there’s no further communication, there’s no bringing them back from the dark side. Trump could run again in 2024. Or maybe one of his spawn runs, with DJT actually running the show from behind the scenes. Or maybe just some other guy picks up the play book.

If it’s true that there’s nothing new under the sun, where have we seen this before? What did we learn from, say, Hitler? When and how did the Germans realize they’d been duped?

Description of an interesting documentary:

Senko’s father, Frank, was stated by her as originally being a “nonpolitical Kennedy Democrat” who began changing into a far-right Republican in the 1980s.[1] On her father’s lengthy commute to his place of employment, he listened to conservative talk radio, which Senko believes started the change in her father’s personality. In particular, he listened to Rush Limbaugh and watched Fox News. Towards the end of his life, Frank’s views mostly changed back to being somewhere in the middle due to his wife exposing him to liberal media. He died in January 2016 at the age of 93.[1]

Free with ads on imdb tv.

37

I meant to post this earlier; I thought it might be helpful:

38

It feels like political conversation across the aisle is both more necessary than ever and more fruitless than ever.

I still find myself imagining such conversations with right-wing friends and family members. (What I wouldn’t give to be rhetorically disarming – like a hostage negotiator!) In my mind I try to come up with just the right words that will lead to reasoned and constructive debate, instead of pointless tribal argument.

But in practice? The other person wants only to vent.

39

On the Conspirituality podcast they do an episode on cults. Cult researcher Steve Hassan talks, among other things, about maintaining contact with people in cults.

Steve Hassan is interviewed by one of the guys running the podcast who had personally been in a cult, so it’s pretty interesting to hear it from both sides.

My takeaway: there are - perhaps - people in your life who are worth not cutting out completely. You love who you love. So there are perhaps two types of engagement you can maintain:

  1. When you come to your senses, my door is open. I’ll leave the light on. I love you. Until then, goodbye.

  2. An engaging, questioning stance in which you let them explain, you don’t respond with facts you simply remain unconvinced + a side of option one.

In the podcast, the guy who was in a cult talks about how he was a complete wanker to his dad, but when he slowly started to realise how wrong he had been, his parents were nothing but loving and understanding. And the neighbour came round with a plate of cookies, to say how nice it was to have him back.

Obviously, for the cookie-tactics, you need them to be beyond the phase where they actively want to harm you. Which is where active Qanonners and MAGAts are. But I guess this is where the “leaving the door open and the light on” comes in.

The other bit, asking questions and showing them you remain unconvinced, I recognise from dealing with someone in psychotic episode. Don’t go along, don’t press the other side, just remain unconvinced. Literally recently had to do that when a friend’s brother showed up worried “they” had bugged his shoes: “Huh, really? Well I don’t think so. Your shoes seem fine to me.” [He tells me why he thinks they’re bugged, I let him speak.] “Yeah I still don’t think so, dude. Your shoes are fine.”

I haven’t put any of this into practice beyond my friend’s psychotic brother (who is not in a cult), so I really can’t speak to the feasibility of any of this. But it’s literally the only suggestion I have heard that sounds useful and is not “cut them out of your life” (which is fine, if that’s what you want.) Also, what I’ve written down here is my own musings and not exactly what was in the podcast. Might be worth checking out Steve Hassan’s books:

  • Combating Cult Mind Controle
  • The Cult of Trump

Podcast on Spotify:

You can also find Conspirituality podcast on other platforms, if you prefer. Just search for them on Facebook or YouTube.

40

Correction: You have quite a few real friends, here on the Dope.