I am leaving my husband. Rather asking him to leave. However, I have been having a moral dilemma.
Prior to our marriage we signed a prenuptial agreement. I had assets, he did not. It was pretty standard, I keep mine, he keeps his and no alimony. (I chuckled at the need to put the waiver of alimony into the agreement but as things turned out, he would be eligible for it.) We have been married 8 years.
At the time of our marriage, I owned a home. During the marriage, I sold that one and I purchased another one. I say “I” because my husband and I have never shared finances and the property is in my name only. I have always paid 100% of the mortgage, house repairs, maintenance, taxes etc. Our agreement was he was obligated to pay the utilities of the home. He has done this pretty regularly but he contributes nothing else. He isn’t a very ambitious man. Works only when he needs the money to cover the above named obligation and that is it. We have a daughter together. I pay for her private school, clothing, medical insurance, and dentist. In essence, everything. Again, he pays the utilities. Phone, cable, electric, water.
Enough background. This is my dilemma:
He is using my lawyer. Since I purchased my current home during our marriage, my husband is entitled to one half of the equity. It is not unsubstantial and I would have to either sell or buy him out by refinancing and getting further into debt. He does not realize he is entitled to this. I have offered him 20,000 and he thinks I am the most generous woman alive. He will sign with no problem. My lawyer has no problem filing whatever we agree upon and has no intention of telling him about his rights as she is representing me.
Do I give him 1/2 of the equity or just let the 20,000 offer be filed? Thanks for any advice or opinions.
I’m guess I’m not a nice person, but since he didn’t put anything into the house I don’t see that he is entitled to any of the equity in it. I wouldn’t tell him he is entitled to it - I think he’s lucky to get $20,000.
Is he going to pay child support, or is that laughable?
IANAL etc. The first thing I’d point out is that the free advice you get on a message board is worth less than what you pay for it. Secondly, how can he be using your lawyer? What clearer conflict of interest can there be than one spouse’s lawyer working for the other spouse in a divorce? Third, how can you trust a lawyer who, while working for your husband, is actively working against his interests by concealing his entitlements? Your lawyer sucks and with all due respect you’re kind of shady yourself.
Can I ask if he contributed as a father, care taker for your daughter? I have to admit, that if a man posted something like this about whether it was ethical to withold information about what his soon to be ex-wife was entitled to, it would give me pause.
If he put time in as a stay at home parent and care giver, then I think he has earned part of the home equity just as much as if he had worked full time and financed part of the house.
And let me amend my post slightly and apologize for the insult. I should not have called you shady outside of the Pit. I still do believe that your actions are shady.
I wish your husband was a member her so I could tell him to get his own lawyer. I hope he has some friends or family members who are savvier than he is, and I hope he will listen to them and secure a lawyer of his own.
Your lawyer, from your description of her, sounds unethical to me. Surely she should have told him that she could not ethically represent you both?
How can the lawyer be serving both of you? How about negotiation?
Just because he “is not ambitous” (whatever that may mean) does not mean he is ineligible for what is legally his. Frankly, your scheme to shaft him with only $20,000 is nasty. If the roles were reversed, would think it fair?
I don’t think it is shady at all. If you earned the money and paid for the house, it is yours, not his. My opinion would be that he deserves only what he put in. I wouldn’t give him anything. Though I am also unsure how the lawyer is representing you both.
What I’m thinking is, those monthly utilities probably added up to reasonable amount, maybe even half your mortgage payment? In which case, definitely he has ‘earned’ his a good chunk of the increased value. Maybe not half, given that it sounds like you rolled in the money from your first house.
To disclose my bias, one of my aunts had a similar arrangement in her second marriage, with her being the one to pay the day to day stuff while hubby did the mortgage/insurance/car payments/taxes. It was a messy divorce and a lot of the conflicts arose from the hubby claiming ownership of the house & car – pretty much their own tangible assets – while she had nothing at all to show for ten years of paying for groceries/gas/electric/water/cable/telephone and so on. In the end she got half the value of the house, but the way he tried to shut her out solidified his reputation as a scumbag among all those who knew of conflict.
Whatever half of the increases value is, isn’t it less than your self-respect? Wouldn’t you rather pay the money than live the rest of your life feeling like a cheat and wondering when/if it will come out and what your friends and business relations will think of you then?
Regardless of the level of his ambition, given the structure of your relationship (ie he pays utilities only) it seems that you were fairly well aware of this predisposition going in or you wouldn’t have arranged for, or allowed, this unusual scenario in the first place. He’s on the borderline of being a “kept man”. From a moral point of view you do own him some notice of what he is entitled to, but divorce is rarely an exercise in peoples best impulses.
So, you could scam him, and it sounds as if he’s enough of a slacker that it’s unlikely he’d put up much of a fuss. The difficulty, and the risk are if he somehow finds out that he is/was entitled to a portion of the house equity after the fact, and starts suing everybody in sight for playing him, including you, and your lawyer. All it would take is one conversation with an attorney or a knowledgeable layman for him to realize he’'s been played like a cheap violin.
So the question is “Do you feel lucky?”
As an side it would be interesting to see how the question would sound if the gender roles were reversed.
I believe she means that her husband does not have a lawyer and the is going to sign whatever her lawyer draws up. My ex and I did this. I paid the lawyer and we both “used” him but he made it clear to my then-husband, both verbally and in writing, that he did not represent him, that he would be looking out for my interests and that my husband was signing without an attorney present.
It was not a big deal to us because we were both poor and didn’t own anything. We got to argue over who kept the good ramen pot.
Foxy - what reason does he have for not getting his own lawyer? If it’s because you control all the money and he can’t afford one, it does seem shady. However, if it’s because he’s lazy and willing to ride your legal coattails so he doesn’t have to deal with it, give him the $20k and be done with it.
I would make one last offer to him: do you really want to do this without your own attorney? Also he should have to sign that he realizes that the attorney is yours, not his. I mean “should” ethically, I don’t know about legally. I’m not a lawyer, and I didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
I just want to echo one thing, and only because I don’t believe you can hear (or read) this too many times: Get your own lawyer, and get one who specializes in divorce law (I guess they call it “family law” nowadays.) Seriously.
Ignore anyone else’s judgement of your other actions – I’m not in your shoes, and grateful for that. Best of luck to you.
Oh, and did I mention that you need to get your own lawyer?
I don’t know about Florida, but in Ohio he’s not “entitled” to half of the equity, he OWNS half the house. So that when you want to sell the house, you would have to get his signature as well.
If this is the case in Florida, you can’t get around it by not disclosing it.
Per what ShelliBean said it sounds like this is a typical poorer/stupider partner using the wealthier/more savvy partner’s lawyer scenario. The attorney is representing Foxy40. Her Atty will have him sign papers saying he understands this and agrees to the division of assets. If Foxy40’s characterization of her soon to be ex is correct it’s likely the only thing he sees in front of him right now is an easy $ 20,000. He probably thinks he’s won the lottery.
So you are stating that he is legally entitled to half the house?
But despite your pre-nuptial, you would find it inconvenient to pay him what he is legally owed?
And he’s an innocent who you can easily swindle?
Why give him anything?! :rolleyes:
He’s stupid, you’re greedy and the lawyer suits you perfectly.
Tell him that the lawyer costs $20,000 and keep all the money for yourself. :smack: