On behalf of overworked, underpaid retail drones everywhere, let me thank you CanvasShoes.
And I agree. I hate being in a store with some whining, screeching child bellowing cause Mommy won’t buy it a candy bar or something. And I hated working in my store when the Whiny Children Patrol would come through.
It does make you wonder what the hell.
I mean, I understand the basic theory of Selective Retail Bastards. I’ve worked retail.
The Theory Of Selective Retail Bastards states that if one thousand customers march through and past your duty station, doing customer stuff… the ONE who is a Bastard in some form or fashion will be the one you remember.
It does not matter if 999 other customers were fine, polite people who paid for their stuff and dealt with you in a courteous and appropriate manner, and controlled their children. The ONE Bastard and his/her Little Bastards will be the ones who stick in your craw when you go home and drink lots of suds to forget.
…but more than once, I have wondered exactly what it is that causes parents to get the idea that their children can freely run berserk in public places and places of business.
Yup, and then she’s sue the LIBRARY. Too bad the library can’t sue her and the brat instead.
I have to say I totally agree with most of these rants. I can remember working in the fabric store (a loooong time ago) and watching the unsupervised kids wrap themselves up with our most expensive fabrics (using their dirty hands of course)…
and now that I’m the mother of a three year old, I keep her on a pretty short leash. I watch her carefully and work hard to teach her what is appropriate behavior when out in public. When she was going through a particularly difficult stage, I just wouldn’t take her shopping at all. Usually I leave both girls home with Dad whenever I can.
However, mothers occassionally need to go out in public with their children. While I do my best to “control” my daughter’s behavior, she is her own person and I haven’t yet been able to break her little spirit completely and utterly and make her do my bidding at every turn 
Which is why I must take issue with this post:
I know that you (and many other people) hate this. And like I said, I try not to take her shopping when I know she is tantrum-prone. But sometimes I just have to, or sometimes I misjudge and think today is a good day when really it is not. And if she whines for me to buy her a candy bar, and I say no, no candy today, and she completely loses it and starts whining and screeching, the WORST thing for me to do would be to buy her the candy bar just to shut her up. From that she would learn “if I whine and screech loud enough, Mom will eventually get embarrassed and give in just to shut me up”, which leads to MORE whining and screeching, not less (and also to pit threads about people’s spoiled brats who expect to be given everything they want the minute they see it).
Now if she starts screaming and we are at the beginning of our shopping trip, screw it, I will just leave the shopping cart and carry her kicking and screaming to the car. But if we are in the checkout line with the milk and bread we REALLY need, then I’m probably going to just let her scream for a minute or two. Of course I will try to distract her with the juice and snacks I brought with me that she CAN have, but like I said, she’s got a mind and a will of her own that I can’t always control.
Being a parent is way tough. I was prone to second-guessing myself before I had kids and now it’s even worse, knowing that so many strangers are judging me. Of course some parents are assholes and some kids are hellions. But when I see a mom and a kid that are having a hard time, I really try to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that both of them are doing the best they can given the circumstances. The strangers who have approached me with a kind word or even just a smile when my daughter and I are having a hard time in public nearly make me cry with relief.
I don’t know, maybe this has no place in a pit rant. Just wanted to give another viewpoint.
hill
Well, the kids screaming never bothered me, really. I’d smile at the parents (If I was waiting on them) and say, “Yeah, I feel like that sometimes myself.”
It usually got a smile or two.
You know, Hill, I don’t really think anybody is condemning parents whose kids have tantrums, just saying that it’s really unpleasant to be around. I gotta say, no matter how much understanding and sympathy I have for the parent in such situations, it’s still about as fun as having an icepick slammed into my eardrum.
I used to work in a thrift store. In the back of the store, we had a display of used furniture for sale. Once, a woman came in with her little boy. He asked if he could go jump on the couches.
She said yes.
She went off with her buggy to shop while he ran to the back of the store.
One cannot condemn Hill, I think, simply because two and three year olds are going to shriek and pitch tantrums. They have to learn, and you have to leave the house occasionally.
Common courtesy is all anyone can ask for under the circumstances. CCL is correct in that I can’t say I like listening to anyone’s child shriek like the damned with their tails caught in a wringer, but it happens.
When you simply let the infant howl nonstop, or allow her to destroy someone else’s property, or kick me in the ankle or whatever, and then act as if it’s MY responsibility to watch your child… or the STORE’S responsibility… well, that’s another beast entirely.
I have had parents collect their wayward children promptly after said child barreled full-tilt into my leg or whatever, and when the parent looks mildly embarrassed and says, “Sorry,” I will generally say, “That’s all right, got one myself,” and mean it.
No point in feeling guilty because your child acts like a child. There are any number of jerks around who’ll want you to, though.
…but when you allow your child to run riot without supervision or restraint, and expect total strangers to make allowances for this… well, you can start feeling guilty, THEN…
Bolding mine.
See, THATS the ticket right there. Kids know this. They’re not stupid, even if they can’t put together two words in a sentence, they, beYOND the shadow of a doubt, KNOW that this is the time to “hit mom up” when she’s almost ready to leave and is at her most vulnerable.
And yes, it’s horribly, terribly inconvenient when you need that milk and bread. Unfortunately THAT is the time to “train them”.
A few times of leaving the cart (yes full and ready to check out or not) and having to eat something not much fun for dinner because you couldn’t get milk and bread (or whatever), and that’ll be all she wrote. And what you do is that you make SURE that when jr is having brussel sprouts instead of a peanut butter sandwich and milk (okay exaggeration, but you know the drill), that it’s BECAUSE he/she starting being a brat in the grocery store and made you leave.
I know it sucks and takes some planning, but TRUST me it’s so worth it. For most of my children’s “growing years” I could count on reasonably decent behaviour from them while in public places.
Allowing myself to be inconvenienced those few times when they were young (and occasional “refresher” courses for them :)) really paid off.
Sorry, I hope that didn’t sound too “old wife” preachy 
If it helps great, if not ignore my ancient old butt !!
Of course, this will lead to a rant about people who leave entire carts full of perishable groceries and expect someone else to put the stuff back… Yeah, the whole parent thing can drive a body up a wall, and it’s a lot of work. I get the feeling that some parents don’t realize it really is a full time job and as a parent you have to make and enforce the rules.
You know another parent has done a terrible job when your own kid comments on another child’s misbehavior and tantrums.
Smaller incident I saw just yesterday which is the precursor to worse things: I’m waiting at the deli at the supermarket. Little Johnny has just whined enough that his mother got a brownie from the bakery section and lets Johnny hold the plastic bag. As we’re waiting, Johnny is swinging the plastic bag around, smacking it on everything. Mom repeatedly tells him not to do so, but there are no consequences. Finally, she tells him that if he doesn’t stop she’ll take it away from him. Few minutes go by. Johnny tentatively whacks something with the bag. Looks at mom, who ignores it. Bigger whack. No response. Pretty soon he’s behaving exactly as he was before the empty threat. Lesson learned: You can ignore what Mom says because she won’t enforce it. First step in the making of a tyrant.
I agree with CanvasShoes. There always has to be a consequence, no matter how small. If you really, really can’t leave the store, then make it something else that you can enforce. No dessert, for example, or no t.v., or something else she likes but can do without.
I bow to the wisdom of CanvasShoes. This is what I wanted to say, but in no way could I have put it as clearly or as reasonably.
That and I have no real life experience to back it up, so for me, its just theory.
A question related to FCM’s and CS’s posts, since it seems likely that there are people in this thread who know the answer:
Suppose that you are going to take the strategy of walking out with screaming kid right now, abandoning your grocery cart. I assume that it is polite to alert someone in the store to this fact, and to apologize. Who should the someone be, and how should this be done? Checkers are the most visible people, but presumably they can’t leave their posts to deal with it. I understand that people you see stocking the shelves often aren’t even store employees, but food company representatives. So who do you leave the cart with, if you’re trying to be as considerate as possible under the circumstances, while getting your little angel out of the store pronto?
See, but here’s the thing. The few times that my two year old started crying at the checkout it was generally because she 1) wanted something that she couldn’t have, in which case I was able to say no and mean it and distract her with something else, or 2) because she wanted to leave the store and go home. (This is still a favorite whine of hers, particularly when I am talking to someone or doing something other than giving her my full attention…“I want to go home!”.) So in that case, to leave the cart and take her to the car would have been giving her what she wanted. What I want her to learn is that sometimes I can’t do exactly what she wants to do, when she wants to do it, and that she needs to learn how to wait. So instead of removing her from the situation (which would have been the equivalent of buying her a candy bar if that’s what she had been whining for), I say, “We will go home when mommy is done paying for our things.” Which of course appears to passersby like I am not disciplining my child, although it is exactly what I am doing. (And it seems to have worked, she generally handles herself very well at check out time.)
And consequences would be great if she were 5 or 6, but a 2 year old can’t connect the lack of dinner with what happened at the store an hour earlier…at least my two year old can’t. And if she were 5 or 6, I would handle things a lot differently. But at 2 and 3 my goal is to try to socialize her, to help her learn what is appropriate in public even if she has some failures along the way.
Sometimes as a parent it feels like “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. If you don’t take your kid out in public and help her learn how to behave, she’ll never get the chance to learn how to conduct herself properly. If you do take her in public to help her learn said skills, she will probably have an occasional meltdown and annoy those within hearing range. If I give her what she is crying for to get her to shut up, then she grows into a manipulative spoiled brat that is the bane of everyone’s existence. If I don’t give her what she is crying for as a method of discipline, she cries even louder and everyone around me wonders, why doesn’t she just leave her cart and take that kid out of the store?
But then I am more tortured and anxious than most parents, I think 
Slowly I am learning to do what’s best for my kids and not care what other people think (although I will always still care, even if it’s only in the back of my mind).
Wang-Ka, I would never let my child kick you in the ankle…you are my favorite poster at the SDMB (seriously!). If I were to ever meet you in the perishable food section of Wal-Mart, I would buy you a ham, or at least a pound or two of turkey. 
Hill
Having had kids who screamed in public for no good reason, these days I find it funny more than anything else when someone else’s child is throwing one of those cranky-child tantrums. As long as the parent is handling it appropriately, i.e. not giving in to the little brat, I generally try to smile and make some comment to the parent so they know that not everyone blames them just because their kid is being a kid. Hey, people did it for me many years ago, might as well make the new generation of parents feel a bit less harried, too!
But the howling brats are a different story, the ones who get away with murder. Can’t stand 'em. And I can’t stand parents who just stand by and watch their kids do rude/obnoxious/antisocial stuff and say not a word. Like the little girl whose mom bought her the candy bar she’d whined for at Wal-Mart and then, on the way out of the store, watched her child rip the wrapper off the candy and toss it on the ground not FIVE FEET from a trash can.
You know, sometimes kids scream. If you absolutely cannot deal with it, don’t leave the house.
Really.
Just FTR, I was referring to the “howling brats,” not the regular kids. I think there’s a difference between trying to get your kid to behave–which I applaud–and idly meandering through the aisles while Junior wails, completely oblivious to the headaches you’re giving everyone in the store.
I hope this isn’t considered hijacking a thread, but my experiences lie more with Service Industry Hell. Not that I haven’t experienced Retail Hell; my first “real” job was a summer stint at Wal-Mart when I was 16. It’s part of the reason I refuse to work for Corporate America-type joints. First, you’re discouraged from strangling - or at least belittling - lame brained customers who somehow wander into the store and, secondly, I’m uncomfortable with the whole “pee in a cup” thing. Not only on privacy grounds, but also due to the fact I’d fail it like a Valium-laden frat boy would fail a Mensa test.
In any event, I work in a restaurant. When I was a line cook, I regularly had to deal with tiny people running into my kitchen. One kid grabbed a knife and proceeded to play Ninja Turtle. Another made a serious attempt to climb up onto the flat grill. I got yelled at by the mother for pulling her little jewel off before he could become a Kid’s Burger in the truest sense of the phrase.
One instance of the need for mandatory birth control and/or sterilization sticks in my mind. I live in a college town and, thus, the joint gets pretty damn busy come Game Day. So, one Saturday, the place was packed with gridiron fans well on their collective way to getting totally shnockered, and one maybe six-year-old lad was running around the restaurant. Literally. He’d start from one end, take off like Richard Damn Petty, come to slide at the other end, regroup and take off again. In the process of one of his drag strip performances, he bumped into one of our tinier waitresses, a mere slip of a lass of 18. She also happened to be carrying a rather large tray overburdened with burgers, chicken fingers, milkshakes and other such artery-clogging goodies, defying not only the bounds of good health but also physics.
The results were predictable. She went sprawling and food went everywhichaways. I happened to be walking back to the kitchen from a beverage run, and my hillbilly roots kicked in. Grabbing the rambunctious yard ape by an arm, I said something along the lines of “If you don’t park your butt in your seat, I’m gonna superglue you to the ceiling fans.” The kid started bawling and, from out of nowhere, his mother descended. She first yelled at the waitress - THE WAITRESS, mind you - for “knocking her child down,” and then turned her venom on me. “How dare you touch my child,” she said. Mustering every bit of politeness my own sainted mother raised me with, I replied, “Lady, this little monster has been tearing around like a brain-dead road runner for the past 20 minutes while you’ve been tossing back Rolling Rocks with the rest of your yuppie degenerates. Either you strap him down or give him away to the gypsies so he can get some decent manners or at least an idea how to act around other primates.”
She went ballistic and screamed for my boss, who - being the hip cat he is - told her basically the same thing I did. The best part of it all: the tray of vittals the young’un redistributed happened to be going to her table. It briefly made me reconsider my apathetic view towards religion.
Matt
:eek: :eek: :eek:
You mean this mother actually let her child run around enough in a restaurant that he felt it was fine to go in the kitchen and try to climb on the grill?!
Holy fucking shit. I’ve worked in restaurants myself (as wait staff mainly) and that is just fucking unbelievable! At least the places I worked the parents kept the kids somewhat under control and when caterpie is born and old enough to teach manners I would hope I’ll remember this sort of stuff! (Actually I somehow think I’d be so embarrassed I’d leave if my kid were running around insanely. When out to eat with the family I usually end up sitting nearest the cousins and keeping them in line while the rest of the adults talk. I don’t mind too much considering the cousins all seem to listen to me decently. Maybe because they really like me )
But my god… just allowing them to run rampage in a restaurant is bad news (because of the waitress thing you also had posted) but to let them go into the kitchen! I think the worst I had to deal with as a waitress was to snag some little bugger who ran into the lounge (run seperately by the hotel) while his dad wasn’t looking. At least his dad had the decency to run after him as well (I just happened to get there first). And I’ll bet the dear mom would have sued the restaurant if her little precious sweetums had gotten burned. :rolleyes:
Actually, I think the lady in question was more upset about the less-than-delicate way I responded to Junior’s excursions into the world of grillery. I am, admittedly, not fond of children and see no need in treating them any different from the drunks who wander into my domain asking me to “hook them up”.
But, yeah, I wouldn’t have been surprised had she sued, either. Where I live is unusually populated by them from the upper middle class and, despite any myths you hear about Southern hospitality, they’ve no qualms about about launching the Lawyers From Hell after us lowly service industry wretches. One instance that sticks in my mind - and pardon me for wandering off-topic - is when we busted a frat kid for trying to steal beer from the cooler. The manager on duty - my roommate at the time - told him to vamoose and the kid decked. We called the cops, pressed charges, and the kid’s dad filed a lawsuit on us for “potentially damaging his son’s reputation”. Fortunately, the judge had to be hospitalized from laughing so hard.