I am not responsible for your child! RetailHell rant -add your own!

LOL, yes, that thought occurred to me FCM, but I thought that of the two evils, that perhaps if enough parents trained their kids, that store personnel would be less harrassed at having to put stuff back than at having to listen to, and perhaps being put in the position of babysitting, screaming little brats.

Particularly if if meant that fewer kids would be acting like that.

(ps, TELL the store personnel, as you’re dragging a screeching curtain climber out of the store, that you were forced to leave a cart on Aisle “X”).

I don’t think we’re saying that children should never ever be heard here.

It’s very obvious when it’s a child having a bad time and just cranky and overwhelmed and when it’s a child that in someone else’s eloquent phrase “has become a little tyrant”.

The former is understandable, if still somewhat irritating, and imho, most reasonable adults view that parent with some degree of sympathy and understanding.

Obviously common sense has to prevail, and obviously we can’t yank our kids out of the public view at every unlovely peep they utter, but there ARE things that a parent can do to train the obnoxious spoiled behaviour out of a child to a great degree (and it should have gone without it being said that sometimes kids are going to be kids).

But too many parents take the “kids will be kids” to the NTH degree and basically let their little monsters run wild in public. THAT is what we’re speaking of here.

To hill o beans, I only had to do this a few times and luckily it was when the cart was not really very full, I told the clerk, who called his manager on their little phone. And yes, you’re right, it’s not going to make much sense to a 2 year old an hour after the incident, which is why I would tell them in the car as soon as we’d left, something to the effect of “oh bummer, now we can’t have peanut butter sandwiches”. And not mean about it either, just disappointed WITH the child and age appropriate too.

Of course a 2 year old won’t understand a long lecture as to why her behaviour was unacceptable, but a short “I’m (mommy is) sad because I wanted to get bread for you so you could have a sandwich, etc” and then end of story is pretty sufficient.

Also, bring in the reinforcements!!! Grandma, Aunts, older siblings, Dad etc, that way, if they’re misbehaving, you don’t HAVE to leave the store, you can have one of the “troops” nab them and take them out to the car.

Again, if you pre-plan some of your (collective you) shopping (or whatever brings out the monster in your child) trips specifically to be “social training” trips, you’ll be SO happy you did!

I remember once being beaten and kicked by MY little three year old monster all the way to the gate of the state fair, because he was cranky and didn’t want to go, it was REALLY, HORRIBLY embarrassing, as he screamed and chased me and kicked at and hit me (he was very spoiled by dad at that point and hadn’t quite learned that MOM had different ideas of what was acceptable behaviour). It was partly my fault as we’d stayed too long having fun, (he had been an angel til about the last half an hour and then the tyrant just CRASHED in on us).

I was not about to give in to his insistance on NOT telling me what sort of pop he wanted (his way of trying to drag his feet on leaving), so I finally said “fine, they have root beer and orange, decide now or go without”. At which he pulled the bratty “mom punch”.

I snagged him up and marched out of the fair area toward parking. He proceeded to hit and pummel me, so finally I put him down and started walking. He chased me, running up and kicking at me and hitting me all the way out of the gate where I grabbed him again and headed for the car.

I absolutely HATE spanking. I don’t have some Dr. Phil-esque thing against it, it just always was, in the words of my dad, “harder on me than on the kid”. Anyway, despite his temper tantrum, we were leaving and that was that.

When we got to the car, I had aNOTHER battle holding him snugly in my arms to make him settle down into his car seat.

The funny part (oh, BELIEVE me, it was NOT funny then, I thought I would die of embarrassment), was that he was asleep before we ever left the parking lot.

BUT, that was one of the last times he ever really pulled a big tantrum, there were a few mini-tantrums after that, but usually at home.

BTW, he’s thirteen now, and I can already count on the “fair story” as blackmail when girls are around :smiley:

Backslider 108:

Walmart makes you pee in a cup?

Have I been away from the states long enough to miss the beginning of drug testing for all new hires?

Sorry, just…amazed.

Good post, though. Reminded me of a pro baseball game I saw on TV, where one team had a preschooler for a batboy (son of a manager?) and he toddled up to the plate to grab the bat just as two runs were going to score. The lead baserunner had the presence of mind to scoop up the child as he crossed the plate, so he wouldn’t get caught in the play as the second baserunner slid across…

er…sorry about the OTness…

I used to work in a theatre, and one night we started getting all sorts of complaints about this screaming kid. Has anybody considered the abuse potential of some boring pretentious art house fare on the underaged? Because the fallout from boring pretentious crap might be worse than sex and violence.

Anyway, the complainst were all about one kid and mom, and no sooner had I headed toward the theatre doors than the mom and kid themselves appeared. The kid was perhaps three, and the mom proceeded to treat the kid to a seminar. She spoke to the kid as if she were an adult the same age as the mom, while the kid was utterly oblivious. “Now, Amber, we discussed this, and you know it’s very unpleasant for me to not be able to enjoy a movie. Why can’t you behave?” And then she whined at the kid for five minutes.

I just had a bus ride with the kids from hell. Mom just sat there while the boy kid swung from the straps. The worse thing was the way the kid grinned gleefully at the other passengers while he grabbed schedules and tossed them around and so on. He was licking the poles, for fuck’s sake!

If you’re wondering what those kids grow up into, I see scary kids every day, but a particularly noxious bunch on the bus hte other day. The kid next to me was about fourteen and he started kicking me on my bare leg. When I told him to knock it off, he grinned at me and called me a racial slur at which point all his little friends joined in. The bus driver watched this going on, and didn’t do anything, so I had to get off the damned bus. What a great lesson to teach kids.

I follow that rule, too, but I must say, once when my kiddo knocked over an expensive bottle of perfume I was relieved when the sales clerk insisted I not pay for it. I felt bad, still do, years later.

I’d never let my child wander off because it only takes two seconds for something bad to happen, whether it be something gets knocked over, someone gets tripped up by a running child, or the child gets hurt or grabbed by a predator sensing an opportunity.

My child is excitable and sometimes doesn’t do so well in the mall. And guess what we do when it happens… we leave. I don’t want to do that to other people, and it teaches children that it’s not okay to act any which way they please.

My husband was shopping in one of those warehouse stores, and had pulled his cart up next to an endcap to look at the products on it. He had been parked there a little while, when he turned to look and saw right in front of his cart a mother and her young daughter walking hand-in-hand, looking at something on the other side of the aisle - and the girl got walked right into the front of his parked cart by the mom. She falls down and starts crying, and the mom starts screaming at my husband for hitting her girl with the cart! From down the aisle a little ways, the woman’s husband runs up with a cart, intercedes with the woman quickly, then turns to my husband and apologizes for that, and as he leads those two away is heard griping at her for not watching where she’s going and running their daughter into the cart.

Stores are built to catch the eye and attract attention, and little kids get the full brunt of that, not being mostly accustomed to it like adults are. I’m not a parent, but I heartily approve of not spoiling kids by caving in to their whining. If I knew that the kid who’s whining and being bratty was being pushed around in a cart by a parent who’s calmly said, “That’s not going to get you home sooner/the toy you want/some candy; Mommy/Daddy is going to finish the shopping regardless,” I’d nod and just cope. I saw a little girl try to walk out of Blockbuster with an unchecked-out video; when the alarm went off and the mom saw the video in her hand, she tried to say no, little girl started to whine, mom immediately caved and checked out that video in addition to the one she’d just rented. I just sighed.

Wasn’t that the World Series? Dusty Baker’s kid, like 3 years old.(He was the SF Giant manager) Baseball passed a minimum age rule for batboys right after that.

I don’t get what’s so hard about getting a kid to shut up when they’re screaming. All it ever took for my mom to get the four of us to shut up was to say something like, “If you don’t shut up RIGHT NOW then you don’t even want to KNOW what I will do to you as soon as there are no other people around to witness it.” And this worked, because my parents didn’t make threats to punish–they made promises, and kept them.

Throwing a tantrum in public was punished harshly, and that worked to keep us in line. No, we weren’t perfect–I can remember playing in some clothing racks in my day–but shrieking and tantrums were not tolerated.

Still works, too. I recently sat behind a 5 year old girl, her 3 year old brother, and their dad on an airplane. Initially, the boy began pitching a caterwauling fit because it was his sister’s turn to get the window seat.

It was going to be a 6 hour flight from Anchorage to Chicago, and I figured it was going to be screaming all the way. Mentally, I began reciting my rant on children in public. Thankfully, though, their dad stepped in and said (I’m paraphrasing), “CUT IT OUT RIGHT NOW, KID, OR I’LL REALLY GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT.” The boy immediately shut up and started entertaining himself. The two of us had a lovely time making faces at each other through the crack between the seats, and he was beautifully behaved for the whole 6 1/2 hours. Darling kid.

And his Dad seemed like a great Dad–played with and talked to his kids, but put up with no B.S. from them. He kept them out of the aisles, made them pick up their garbage, and got them in and out of the bathrooms efficiently. Nevertheless, his kids were obviously having a good time. Parents like that make seeing little kids in public a joy, not a hassle.

Mom had 4 of us within 5 years of each other, so I think most of the moms I see with 1-2 kids should be able to cope. Of course, the key is never to make empty threats to your kids about punishing them. You probably can’t break their spirits or ensure that you’ll have Stepford Kids, but parents absolutely do have the power to modify their child’s behavior–if they care to put forth the effort.

My favourite thing about that was what Dusty’s momma had to say to the news crews about the incident…hoo-wee, she wasn’t happy with her son. Beware the wrath of Grandma…

I discovered that I have a superpower regarding small screaming sprogs. I merely deliver the Ultra-Pissed Get the Fuck Out of My Face Teacher Look (patent pending) to said loud object and they shut up immediately. I encourage all of you to develop your own such look and show them to yelling chi’drens at your retail store of choice. Together, we can make a difference.

Super Spaz

There were always a few stores at the mall where my mom would NOT let me enter. I wasn’t a particularly rowdy kid, but I had no business being in a store that sells ceramic miniatures or pricey kitsche items. I stayed outside with dad, or she came by herself later, or whatever.

It gets said time and time again around here, but it bears repeating that parents of small children simply can not just do whatever they want and go wherever they want as if they were free and childless. There are new responsibilities that come with those little hyperactive tornados you call your children, and if you don’t take those responsibilities upon yourself then somebody else will be forced to do so, such as the retail clerks that have to look after your kids.

Yeah, when my girls were little, if we were going into someplace like that, the rule was they had to keep their hands clenched together – behind their backs. I told them this rule before we went in, and the deal was if they didn’t think they could do this, we would not go in. And if they unclasped their hands, out we went.

Following up on SpazCat’s story – a few weeks ago, I was on a ferry from Delaware to Cape May NJ. A handful of little boys were tearing about the boat from deck to deck, barreling up & down stairs, and so on. I happened to (almost literally) run into two of them on a stairway. I gave them my sternest schoolteacher/mom look and read them the riot act, although of course I had no actual authority on the vessel. They slunk away slowly and quietly around the corner. I don’t know if they continued to cease and desist or not, but I didn’t encounter them myself after that. They were probably off telling someone about the weird lady that hollered at them.

Good heavens. So Q.N. Jones suggests that I threaten to give my daughters a healthy smack if they make noise in public (and be willing to follow through on that threat), while RexDart seems to suggest that I should just stay home until my girls are, say, 35.

Do any of you have kids? Do any of you remember what it was like to be a child?

There is no way I am going to leave my kid at Barnes and Noble for three hours while I go see a movie. There’s no way I’m going to let her destroy property or show disrespect for other people. But part of teaching her the meaning of respect is to show her respect in return. And part of teaching her to behave is to take her out in public and help her learn. When she was learning how to walk, I didn’t smack her when she fell down. And when she is TWO and learning how to behave in public, I’m not going to smack her when she makes a mistake. I will do my best to minimize disruption to the kid-hating public, and behavior that is OK when she is 18-36 months old will NOT be ok when she is 5 or 8 or 12. But goodness sakes, folks, kids will be kids. They are born with a certain amount of temperment that is beyond a parent’s control. And even parents have the right to go out in public once in a while.

hill

Yup…or at least they did back 12 years ago when I spent a hellish summer in servitude to Sam Walton. I also had to pee in a cup when I worked for Weyerhauser, the lumber company. I’ve refused to do since then. Partly because of civil liberties and whatnot, partly because I’d fail thanks to my enjoyment of certain mind-expanding substances, but mainly because the whole affair makes me nervous as hell. You know how hard it is to build up a good stream with a damn doctor watching you, much less hit the damn cup? Course, the last time I did it, I had an appointment for 10:30 a.m., but due to a paperwork screw-up, I had to wait another hour-and-a-half…this was after drinking two liter bottles of Pepsi. Cruel bastards…

Back on the subject, specifically how parents handle rowdy children, my own particular mater and pater didn’t take no guff. We acted up in public, they’d shut us down right quick. My brother was a pretty laid back kid, but I was a handful and a half. However, thanks especially to my mother - a former gym teacher and basketball coach - I must say I never acted up in the same way twice.

I’m not suggesting that at all, merely that parents of small children don’t have the same level of freedom they had before they had kids. That doesn’t mean staying shut up in the house with your kids like a hermit for 10 years. But there are some places that perhaps you shouldn’t take your kids into, places where they could do alot of damage and even possibly get hurt themselves by horsing around. My personal anecdote suggested that the solution my mom found was to have my dad, or another responsible adult who was handy, watch us while she went into the store, or stay home with us if she was going out somewhere that the kids might cause trouble at.

Certainly, you do have rights. But you also have obligations that you voluntarily imposed upon yourself when you had children. It’s your obligation to make sure that their “certain amount of temperament that is beyond” your control doesn’t come into contact with those situations where that uncontrollable temperament will cause problems. If the potential damage is minor, maybe take them inside and just keep them under as much control as you can, roll the dice. But there are some places where I just think you shouldn’t take kids inside. And if you go ahead and do it, I at least hope that you have the $200 or so to pay off the storeowner for the damage they might do breaking valuables. That’s your obligation at a bare minimum.

In fact, I wonder if that ever becomes an issue. If you were a storeowner and saw a woman coming in with her young children, and she looked like she wouldn’t have the money to pay for the possible damage, would you turn her away? Seems like a prudent decision, although perhaps the stores are insured to some extent for this.

One of my managers had the BEST Evil Death Look EVER. She’d see a screaming kid and meander over where the kid could see her and the parent couldn’t. Then she’d unleash the Evil Death Look. The kid would usually stop mid-cry and just kind of stare…

Does it ever. As with many public libraries, we’ve adopted an Unattended Child Policy. Kids under 12 have to have their parents not only in their ready vicinity but are responsible for their behavior. Okay, little ones cry now and then, etc. but if a child is being destructive or disruptive we tell the parent to control them.

Top this one, folks…at a library where I used to work we had a 3 month old baby left for 5 hours while the parents left and went shopping. The poor baby was in a carrier, just left on a couch.
When we figured out he had been abandoned–no bottle, no spare diapers, nothing–we called the cops. CPS took the baby. But get this, when the parents finally wandered back they were furious–and promptly called the cops, reporting that the library had allowed their child to be kidnapped.
Did I mention that they were driving a Beemer and were both doctors? I swear, the CPS folks positively enjoyed prosecuting that one.

Veb

Can I cheat a bit and slip in a Tale of Tiny Terrors that isn’t retail-related?

A few years back when I was still with Kaiser HMO, I went to the lobby to wait for a prescription. On the wall next to the stairs there was a big sign that said DO NOT LET CHILDREN PLAY ON STAIRS. And what was going on? You guessed it: Kids playing on the damn stairs, with their parents two feet away. Perhaps they couldn’t read the sign, but somebody in there should have told them what it said and enforced it. I think I even said as much on a survey they sent me later about my visit.

I’ll bet you anything that if one of the little darlings got hurt on those stairs–or if they got in someone’s way as they were going up and down and tripped them–the parents would have sued Kaiser for negligence.

Note-I don’t mean that parents should carry the child around the store, oblivious to his or her caterwauling, I just mean if a parent is in line, and HAS to get certain items (milk, bread, toilet paper), then surely people can deal with some screams for five minutes.

Leaving like that just assures the child that he or she can start making a fuss and get Mommy and Daddy to leave-if he or she wants that.

Whether it’s carried out or not, whether you want to play semantics games and say that it’s a “promise” that’s still controlling a child’s behavior via threat, and there are some parents who prefer to discipline our children in ways that don’t require them to be afraid of us and whatever punishment we might dole out at some later point in time when they can’t even remember what it was they did wrong to begin with. “I’m gonna get it” is not a good reason for a kid to behave, it’s a good reason for a kid to walk around in fear.

As a parent, I don’t want or need kids who fear me. I want and need kids who respect me, love me and know that when I tell them to do something, there is a reasonable consequence to disregarding what I’ve said, and I can explain that consequence to them.

See, the only problem with that is that everyone has a different definition of “problems.” Clearly, property damage or theft or any behavior that puts the kids or the people around them at a physical risk is all unacceptable and everyone with two brain cells to rub together understands that. But there are people who would consider my one year old’s temper tantrum as a “problem” when in reality, it’s an inconvenience that causes no harm – irreperable or otherwise – to anyone. There are people who never want to hear the tiny, insistent voice of a young child who is testing and trying parental boundaries, but that’s what young children do and public venues are where those tests and learning opportunities happen.

There are a lot of people who consider it a “problem” when any child behaves in any way other than “miniature adult” and fully possessed of all the self-control and judgment of a mature person. Parents like myself, who don’t let their kids get away with doing anything damaging but don’t grab up their children and run the moment they begin to make childish protest/demand/tantrum-y noises, must really fight to hold our ground because of the backlash against us thanks to the idiots who let their kids swing on the velvet ropes or knock over the waitresses in the restaurant. We need to find some happy medium.