And, while I’m at it, let me point out that legislation does work. Are blacks still slaves? Do we have to ride in the back of the bus? Are we being lynched by the hundreds?
I don’t know what kind of crack pipe those of you who insist that legislation doesn’t work are burning your lips on, but don’t try to convince me.
Nope, you can’t change people’s minds. So what? You don’t have to like me, but you must treat me equally.
biggirl
so…are you saying that i’m wrong and that things are going to get better for minorities? which minorities? when? where? how? i’m going bald - is your plan for equality going to help me get more dates? if so, count me in.
Hey Biggirl…I’m dropping trou with ya honey…
You know what. Maybe we should take these comments with a grain of salt…I don’t think that’s whitey talking I think that’s a MAN talking. Ug! Me man, me take care own, me grab your meat, me beat you with club, me play with fire! Ohwwwww!
I just can’t believe some of the stuff I hear. It blows my mind! I’ve been hearing about how niggers were taking over and wanted a hand out and blah, blah, blah all my life. At least I could laugh at that shit and know where it was coming from, fear and ignorance. But we’ve got college educated people here arguing that society is “as equal as it’s gonna get”! What are we coming too? I find so much of this just stunning. I’m blown away.
Needs2know
If you are denied basic rights because you are bald, then yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. If you can’t get a job, or are not allowed in certain schools, or are shot at and killed by police– not because you’ve done something wrong, but because you are bald-- then I’ll be picketing on the “Equal rights for Cueballs” line.
I can’t help you get a date. As you have mentioned before, you can’t legislate people’s minds.
i’m not bald, i’m going bald! i still got some time dammit. “cueball” - why i oughtta…
ok, my intention was not to spark extra ire in the already-irate or rile up the unriled, so i will respectfully back out of this debate.
still no date for this weekend though…
No buddy you don’t get to back out now! If it wasn’t intended to rile the already riled up then what? Were your comments based on fact or even careful unbiased observation? Would they stand up to a few simple questions, perhaps honest questions you might ask yourself? Never mind what Biggirl or I might have to say, everyone knows where we stand by now. At least I’m pretty sure I do. Don’t drop in here and throw zingers about “hands off government” when the government, federal, state, county, city regulates just about every aspect of our lives already. So it’s Ok to pass laws about when, how, where and with whom you can have sex or laws about how you can spend and invest your own money, or what you can injest into your own body…but we can’t pass laws to protect people from being hurt by others just because their skin is a different color? Please stop and think about what you are saying, better yet, think of why you are repeating it. Because I’ve heard this theory before and it’s starting to sound a little familiar, and scary.
Needs2know
Needs2Know,
Thanks for keeping up the good fight while I was away playing in MPSIMS.
O.K., where are the rest of the wrong-headed people who posted here while I was away?
ok, needs2know, i’ll make one last comment.
my position here is that we have all the effective legislation we will ever have to help minorities. yes, we could pass more laws, but i don’t think they’ll help. people are as non-judgemental as they’ll ever be. you can argue all you want (and i hope you’re right - i don’t have any reason to want you to face discrimination), but i won’t feel i’ve been proven wrong until i hear from minorities that things have gotten better for them. and i mean better from now, not from pre-civil rights law days.
Ok Waldo let me see if I’ve got this right…you aren’t railing against laws we already have just thinking we don’t need anymore, is that it? Because we’ve discussed laws that apply to Affirmative Action before and many have said that they don’t work or that they are discriminatory. I beg to differ. Many say they are mismanaged or misinterpreted, I agree they are sometimes. It’s always been my argument that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the laws need to be fine tuned or even overhauled then let’s do it. But let’s not abolish something that has done a certain amount of good. Especially since we haven’t yet reached nirvana. Of course you say we never will, but then that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try does it? Perhaps our grandchildren will.
Needs2know
i am not suggesting anything be abolished, i am not against passing more laws.
i simply believe minorities will never face less prejudice and discrimination than they do now.
that’s it.
Just curious Z, why do you believe we have reached the end of racial tolerance?
Have you ever been to Puerto Rico? There are all shades of human on that island. Native Indians, European and blacks all live happily in the knowledge that where ever their ancestors came from they are all Puerto Rican. I know because I also happen to be Puerto Rican and when someone called me negrita over there, it was an endearment. Imagine that!
good question, biggirl. probably just the fact that nothing changes. we have laws against discriminating on the basis of race, sex, handicap, etc. yet people still discriminate, they still sexually harass, they still do a lot of things that are illegal because they don’t know better or they don’t care or whatever. the laws are in place; i just don’t see what else can be done. i’ve had to go to court to fight what amounts to idiocy. i’d like to see a world where there are fewer idiots and less racial discrimination, but i don’t think that’s going to happen, mostly because it hasn’t happened yet and it’s not happening now.
I’m not white, so I don’t identify with your rant. If that’s ok with you.
I don’t understand exactly what you mean. But sure, it’s perfectly fine by me if you don’t identify. Thanks for asking permission.
Actually Z it seems like it’s getting worse. Or maybe I’m just seeing demons that aren’t there. But weren’t we a little more fired up as a society about equality 20 or so years ago. Now I hear so many people, people you’d think would want to try and be honest about their asumptions, making comments about blacks that have no real basis. A lot of white guys that proclaim they aren’t predjudiced hold the notion that blacks are somehow squandering these opportunities. Or even worse that they can’t really even live up to them. Granted I think there are some statistics out there that make it look that way. I know there are some statistics that show the largest segment of minorities that have benefitted from AA are black women. If black women are the only ones really making any solid progress then something is wrong. This is just a theory of mine but it looks like to me that black men are somehow facing even greater challenges.
I get disgusted when people tell me to shut up with the “feminist rethoric”. Well too bad! What happend to the Equal Rights Amendment. We’re still in need of one. Women still don’t hold the keys to the kingdom, just the broom. Yet it is not in any way shape or form correct these days for women to talk about these things. I think we are regressing. I bothers the hell out of me.
Needs2know
Needs…how exactly would life be improved with the passage of the ERA? What injustice are you facing that the ERA would abolish?
You are guaranteed equal rights by your status as an american citizen. If you are denied your rights you have the same recourse as any other american citizen. Which governments are denying you your civil rights based on your gender? Who is denying you housing because of your gender? Who is denying you education because of your gender? Who is denying you employment because of your gender?
What method of legal recourse to these injustices do you desire that you are now denied?
Well at one point the federal government was…back a few years ago I couldn’t buy my house with a (what was the acronym for one of those first time buyer loans) anyway the interest rates are always lower on those. I had to go FHA which is always a couple of points higher. You see the other loan had a policy of not giving loans to divorced, single women, they said they defaulted more often. A few months after I moved in there was a report that some women had successfully sued them.
Oh and I don’t really feel the need for an ERA. But I do think women are still discriminated against when it comes to equality in the workforce. Some professions worse than others. I believe there is still struggles going on concerning tenure and professorships and universities. I also believe that men enjoy, white men in particular, certain unearned privledges that women and minorities do not. Minorities even less than white women. Just like minorities women often, in certain jobs, have to feel the need to justify their presence. They often feel that they must work twice as hard as men in order to overcome the stigma of being female. And it disturbs me when we hear news reports that large entities like the Southern Baptist Convention decides it isn’t Biblical for women to be pastors. Granted we are talking about the Southern Baptists here but they’d been ordaining women up until this new development. Why digress? Not Biblical that’s right. Who do you think is interpreting that? That kind of thing.
Needs2know
needs2know, do you acknowledge that sometimes accusations of racism and sexism are unfounded? what hope for serenity do members of minority groups have that can’t tell the difference between racism and just everyday run-of-the-mill crap? i have specific examples if you need them, but they involve some lengthy setup. i have encountered enough of this that if i thought it would do any good, i would explain to them that what they described as racism was just the same normal rude shit i encounter every day as a white person that i just chalk up to routine stupidity and ignorance. i believe the tendency to apply the label of racism to too broad a spectrum of behavior is another one of the (what i consider to be insurmountable) obstacles to resolving the issues of racial and sexual discrimination.
Actually Needs while, I’m not sure how much of an affect AA is, it is true that black women are fairing much better than the men out there. I’ve worked at more than a few offices where although I wasn’t the only black, I was the only black male. As a matter of fact I can’t think of a time when that hasn’t been the case.
I think it may have something to do with the fact that black males may get more caught up in that whole “keeping it real” “don’t need no education” nonsense typical in inner city communites. It at least holds true in my neck of the woods. In fact I was at a rally a couple of nights ago, because of a recent spate of killings in Oakland. Our homicide rate is on the rise, with the primary victims and perpertrators being black men between the ages of 18-30.
Yeah things do seem to be getting worse. I personally think things started back down hill with Reagan but that’s MHO. But it was during that time that many of the outreach and social programs which were reaching some of those at risk groups were terminated during his presidency.
Mind it I but in? Of course this happens. Want a recent example. I was in Chico last month or so on business, and I encountered this nasty individual in a store. I was with two co-workers. When we left the store Charlie (who’s white) and Ernie (fillipino) both were remarking on how nasty the guy treated me. We were just about sure the guy ws a racist when this women (white) came out the store shoving the door close as hard as she could saying “What a jackass”
So of course it happens. I for one don’t believe every account I hear of racism, but it does occur often enough for me to take pause. Recent court cases bear this out. It doesn’t mean the legislation is bad, just that you have people who will try to work the system. A problem whenever you have anyway for someone to get money for nothing, especially with the surplus on lawyers in this society.