I’m white. I’m not proud of it. There’s nothing to be proud of. I didn’t expend any energy in becoming white. I didn’t make a conscious decision to become white.
It’s not like it’s a major achievement. A lot of people are white and, with maybe one or two exceptions, put as little effort in it as I did. What’s to be proud of? It’s like saying “I’m proud to have size 9 feet.” That’s likely to get a reaction like “What size were they to begin with?”
And it’s not as if I would be persecuted if I didn’t hide or downplay my whiteness. I’ve never, for example, been refused a job because I looked or acted too white.
There are a lot of things I am proud of. Things that warrant pride. Things that set me apart from others. Being white isn’t one of them.
On the other hand, if someone’s list of accomplishments is so short that being white is considered significant, I say throw them a bone. If being proud of being white is all they have, let them have it.
I also think Waldo that you cannot take personal situations to seriously when making broad decisions. I too have witnessed things that do not make sense. However I try very hard not to let these incidents color my reasoning about the big picture. I’ve seen racisim in my workplace, white on black, black on white and black on black. (Yes this does occur too. I was suprised to find out just how widespread it can be.) But Affirmative Action has helped. It works when applied correctly. Not just for minorities but for women and the handicapped. We owe it to ourselves as a society of civilized human beings to continue in the struggle to give everyone a equal place.
Stuffy…why is it do you think that black males have not benefitted as much from civil rights actions? Is it their attitude that’s to blame? I read Nathan McCall’s “Makes Me Wanna Holler” and he made it seem as though the attitude of black males went a long way to their creating their own problems. He had grown up with a very distorted image of what it was like to be white. His narrow little world at the time didn’t include white people that didn’t represent anything but oppresion. Not until he had gone to prison, recieved his degree and gone off to Atlanta to work did he run across a genuine white person that didn’t have any preconcieved notions about him. (He thought the poor guy was goofy, but he learned to like him.) Do you think this is the prevailing idea that dominates many black men’s thoughts? It also seemed to me that he and his peers felt a compelling need not to subjugate themselves to anything that was percieved to be white. They saw this as betraying themselves not just as black men but as men. A little retarded and definately “macho”. Could it be that black women are getting along better now simply because they are women? And women do not have the same kind of inbred competition issues that all men seem to have? What are your thoughts?
I think black males have benifitted through civil rights, but to a lesser degree than Affirmative Action. The problem is that AA can only help those, trying to help themselves in the first place. It’s a kind of self fulfilling attitude. Both in terms of machismo, and education. They are more prone to view the drug dealing as the easy way out, and see education as subjucation, or acting white.
It was something the few blacks back in college used to talk about. I graduated from UC Davis, at the time I was there you could count the Black men on campus if not on one hand, very easily. We had plenty of Black women though (which was nice when it came to dating )
Yes, I think women do better because of their inherant aversion to competition. They also seem to think better in the long term, more apt to plan. There is something else though, women aren’t assumed as threatening as a man, I think that’s also a big part of it.
You definately hit that nail on the head Stuffy! It’s always appeared to me that the old stereotype of the raping, killing, stealing, black man has not died at all. If anything it’s grown. I can also see where some blacks would see obtaining an education is “acting white”. After all when you do go to school in this country you are pretty much exclusively studying the accomplishments of a predominately white western civilization. And until real efforts had been made in recent years to include minorities in the study of history, science, literature and the arts, black people had no role models to learn about. I can even remember when you never saw a black face in a textbook let alone talked about Harriet Tubman, Fredrick Douglas, Booker T. Washington or Langston Hughes. Even now minorities only get small blurbs of notice in many textbooks still in use.
So you do think in some ways it’s a uniquely male thing. Men aren’t often as practical or as pragmatic as women, a nature of the beast kind of thing. What will these generations of educated, upwardly mobile black women do for male companionship? They certainly won’t want to go home and align themselves with some homeboy with one foot in the grave or in the pen. Do you see any remedy for the malaise that still prevails among many black men?
Do you feel as pessimistic as I often do about race relations in our country? I know that it isn’t fashionable with the educated to be openly hostile to minorities but many more people are becoming dissolusioned with the progress minorities have made. The comments made on this board are good evidence of that. Even with that I personally am not yet willing to say that we have accomplished all we can as a society. I’d rather not give up on us all yet. What do you think?
not to sound hackneyed, but my view on this is far from original: not everyone is equal in terms of ambition, intelligence, and physical ability. the best we can do as a society is to provide an environment where, if you apply yourself and can tell shit from shinola, you can achieve a certain level of personal success. but if your goal is to ‘give everyone a equal place’, forget it. it ain’t gonna happen. not on this planet, not with any known life form.
getting back to the original premise of this thread, if you’re proud to be white or proud to be black and you struggle for the advancement of your color group, you’re bound to remain frustrated. your cause will always be stymied by the idiots, underachievers, and common-sense-deprived members of your group. you’d be better off supporting a group whose members display attributes you value and respect, like intelligence and humor. you’ll find that this peer group contains people of all colors, genders, and ethnic backgrounds. it’ll be easier to take pride in your group’s accomplishments and argue for their superiority.
I don’t think you could have captured it more closely. My wife and I discuss this regularly (don’t know if I ever mentioned it but she’s 10 years older than I). She hated history, because there was no coverage of black history. Something that as you mentioned had changed when I wen through school. I remember talking about Charles Drew, and she had never heard of him, or the way he died.
You know, I’ve always hated to admit when a male bias is true, but in this case I think you’re right.
Actually, this is what’s happening, at least as far as I can see. I don’t even think it’s a bad thing. The allignment would actually provide an impetus to improve their lot. You know, males being competitive an all . I’ve also seen more interracial marriages of late too, hey everyone makes their own paths.
I do see a remedy, it’ll be longer in coming though. The most latewst surveys show the number of single parent households in decline. This has to be a good thing. Having a father around as a role model, will definately keep more of these kids off the street.
There’s also more and more outreach efforts (if Oakland can be considered as typical) in trying to get these kids away from the stupid belief that an education is “acting white”. Me I just try to do what I can with my sons and their friends.
Even I get disillusioned sometimes, progress being slow as it is. But I’ve got kids, and I have to hope thing will get better. I think this message board is a step in that direction. I’ve witnessed incredibly stupid comments from some posters. I’ve tried to correct them where I can, or ignore when I realize it’s entrenched. But all in all, I see improvement and a reason to hope.
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