I am so fucking sick of this casual racism

[Grey_area]

@Auntbeast

Look at the bright side OP, I got to listen to a guy talking about how great the sex is with asian girls.

I think you meant well, but I can’t say that’s a “bright side”. I get that too actually. “Hey I fucked a totally hot Asian chick last week,” as if that as anything to do with me. Yeah I’ve slept with white women too but I don’t feel the need to tell you about it. I find those comments closer to insulting than flattering. I think the sentiment behind them a lot of times is “ha ha I’m taking your women and you can’t do shit”. Maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t really think of any other reason.

erie, I don’t think outdated, un-PC terms like gypped, chinaman’s chance, etc are really the problem. Usually people don’t even think of race when they use them. What bothers me is that people assume they can treat me with disrespect and it makes me a poor sport if I don’t like it. Most of the things I hear are not horribly offensive but the sheer frequency in which I hear casually insulting things about Asians makes it very grating. If I do express my sentiments, I need to “calm down” or “lighten up” or I’m “humor impaired”. Maybe some people feel threatened by our positive stereotypes so they feel the need to “bring us down a notch” in the most passive-aggressive way possible.

A good rule of thumb is just don’t make any jokes about any race other than your own. That doesn’t mean you can make a racist joke and then follow it up with a redneck joke and that makes it OK. As Hippy Hollow explained, it’s not quite the same.

[HazelNutCoffee]

@r4nd0mNumb3rs

Maybe some people feel threatened by our positive stereotypes so they feel the need to “bring us down a notch” in the most passive-aggressive way possible.

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by this. What positive stereotypes are we talking about here? That we have mad math skillz? That we are educated? That we are serene and not easily excited? That we have a strong work ethic? I don’t think any of these serve to make us threatening. They all add up to comprise the “model minority” that shuts up and works hard without complaning.

[Frank]

@Liberal

John Ross, our beloved chief during Indian Hater Jackson’s massacre, was 1/8 Cherokee and 7/8 white. By way of comparison, I am the reverse.

I didn’t know the extent, hence my careful wording. Now I know.

[Grey_area]

@HazelNutCoffee

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by this. What positive stereotypes are we talking about here? That we have mad math skillz? That we are educated? That we are serene and not easily excited? That we have a strong work ethic? I don’t think any of these serve to make us threatening. They all add up to comprise the “model minority” that shuts up and works hard without complaning.

The stereotypes that we are smart and successful. Along the lines of “you may be all that and a bag of chips but in the end you’re still a ching chong chinaman and that’s why you’ll never be better than me”. A threat to the status quo. This is all kind of speculative so don’t take it too seriously.

[Tony_Montana]

welcome to the club.
So Im going to sit here cross-legged,smoke my peace-pipe,send some smoke-signals maybe do a rain-dance and sing,emkay? HEYA heya HEYA heya HEYA heya HEYA heya HEYA heya…

[Algher]

@CanvasShoes

Since I was only replying to the OP when I posted, I obviously had not yet gotten to the posts where it was explained that he wasn’t a redneck.
:rolleyes:

But since you ask, "drunken idiot + racial slur generally = redneck. And not the cute Jeff Foxworthy type, the banjo playing “squeal like a pig” Jerry Springer type.

If you are referring to the typical white, male, Southerner in your definition of Redneck…

Fuck you and your casual racism.

If you are trying to redefine Redneck to also automatically include being racist…

Fuck you and your casual racism.

See how this works?

[Bear_Nenno]

@Tony Montana

welcome to the club.
So Im going to sit here cross-legged,smoke my peace-pipe,send some smoke-signals maybe do a rain-dance and sing,emkay? HEYA heya HEYA heya HEYA heya HEYA heya HEYA heya…

Shit! Now it’s raining… thanks a lot dick.

[Tony_Montana]

@Bear_Nenno

Shit! Now it’s raining… thanks a lot dick.

Thats Tony

[Li_l_Pluck]

@HazelNutCoffee

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by this. What positive stereotypes are we talking about here? That we have mad math skillz? That we are educated? That we are serene and not easily excited? That we have a strong work ethic? I don’t think any of these serve to make us threatening. They all add up to comprise the “model minority” that shuts up and works hard without complaning.

Let’s see…I’ve been awake for 22.5 hours, so please forgive me if this isn’t quite as clear as I prefer, or if I don’t state all of the nuances that might be apparent only to me.

Basically, it’s like this. "I, as a member of the privileged class of White society,* can (while, of course, ignoring hundres of years of American history) hold up Asians as an example to Blacks, Indians, and Hispanics, do a , and say, “See? Look at the Asians! They came here poor, knowing no English, and from a vastly different background, and look at how hard they work and how they’ve managed to blend in. Why can’t you malcontents follow their example?”

“On the other hand, I know, somewhere deep in my subconscious, at least, that what my (racial) ancestors have been able to achieve, and, by extension, what I’ve been able to achieve (talking mostly about opportunity here), wasn’t achieved as much by some mythical Horatio Alger work ethic than it was by theft, deception, and connections. On top of that, I then have to confront the reality that these same Asians against whom I’ve (unfairly) measured you are mercilessly kicking my ass (or catching up too damn quickly for my comfort) in all of the benchmarks that my society recognizes as valuable (e.g., the mad math skillz, the work ethic, the quest for education that you referenced, HazelNutCoffee)–in other words, I have to admit that my success/intellectual superiority/etc. is a fraud–which means that I need to find any way that I can to bring them down a notch or two, 'cause yeah, that’s right, I’m still the baddest muthafucka in this town.”

Like I said, there are nuances here that I didn’t touch on, and perhaps I’m not being as clear as I should be, but I hope you get the gist of what I’m saying (and what I think **r4nd0mNumb3rs ** might be alluding to).

You can ask me, and I’ll try to explain further after I get some sleep. Or…Hippy Hollow and/or r4nd0mNumb3rs, who I suspect might understand what I’m trying to say (even if what I said wasn’t quite the point that **r4nd0mNumb3rs ** was trying to make), are welcome to restate it in the cogent, eloquent way that they’ve said everything else in this thread.
*I’m not White, BTW–just taking a WAG, based on my experiences and observations, at how such a person in this country, at this time, might be thinking.

[Li_l_Pluck]

Oh, after posting, I see that **r4nd0mNumb3rs ** has already weighed in on your post. Well, perhaps he’ll tell me how close I came to his mark.

And yeah, despite its apparent “benefits,” I can certainly see how being the “model minority” is like being caught between the Devil and the deep blue sea.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I can see how some idiot could think that way. So basically this boils down to, “You may think you’re better than me but despite your success you’re just a [insert racial slut here].” I suppose that might have been behind the type of racism I had to deal with when I was in elementary school. I haven’t encountered it as an adult . . . yet (although I don’t doubt it’s out there).

[Grey_area]

@HazelNutCoffee

Colonization of the Philippines? Japanese internment? Anti-miscegenation laws? Immigration quotas? Exploited labor on the railroad and in the sugar fields? There’s been plenty of blatant historical oppression. It’s more accurate to say that there is a lack of public awareness of said oppression. You’re not going to learn much about most of these things unless you’re an historian or an Asian American studies scholar.

Sorry, I missed that post.
Well what I meant was that even as an Asian, I think the oppression experienced by our people pales in comparison to the genocide and subjugation endured by Native Americans and Blacks. As someone who takes great pride in my roots, I can understand why they might have a chip on their shoulder. And the fact that some people in the 21st century still have the nerve to make light of their situation is absolutely mind boggling. This goes double for Native Americans, whose very existence mainstream society has conviniently decided to forget about.
I kinda got off topic but er… Oh well.

Oh and Bear Nenno, refer to post #59.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@r4nd0mNumb3rs

<snip> What bothers me is that people assume they can treat me with disrespect and it makes me a poor sport if I don’t like it. Most of the things I hear are not horribly offensive but the sheer frequency in which I hear casually insulting things about Asians makes it very grating. If I do express my sentiments, I need to “calm down” or “lighten up” or I’m “humor impaired”.

I think this is where the disconnect here is coming from; you think we are disrespecting you by making jokes here, and I think it’s just the opposite; we’re treating you like one of the guys, suitable for teasing like everyone else. But as you said earlier, you don’t want to be one of the guys. I don’t quite understand why you came here to complain about your problems with racism if we’re just a bunch of strangers that you have no connection with, but as you like it.

I don’t think anyone is telling you not to express your anger at the racism you’re experiencing; I just don’t think you’ve gone about this Pit thread about it the right way. You came in guns blazing about anyone disagreeing with you before anyone had even responded, and I think you’ve told about 10 people to fuck off now. You’re coming across as very angry, and not just at the racists in your life, but also at us, even before we had even done anything.

[Ensign_Edison]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. If one guy is being an asshole, and the other guy doesn’t like it, it must be the non-asshole who needs to change.

No, wait. That’s an argument made only by an asshole or an asshole’s best friend.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@Ensign Edison

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. If one guy is being an asshole, and the other guy doesn’t like it, it must be the non-asshole who needs to change.<snip>

You got that from what I posted?

[Grey_area]

@featherlou

I think this is where the disconnect here is coming from; you think we are disrespecting you by making jokes here, and I think it’s just the opposite; we’re treating you like one of the guys, suitable for teasing like everyone else. But as you said earlier, you don’t want to be one of the guys. I don’t quite understand why you came here to complain about your problems with racism if we’re just a bunch of strangers that you have no connection with, but as you like it.

I don’t think anyone is telling you not to express your anger at the racism you’re experiencing; I just don’t think you’ve gone about this Pit thread about it the right way. You came in guns blazing about anyone disagreeing with you before anyone had even responded, and I think you’ve told about 10 people to fuck off now. You’re coming across as very angry, and not just at the racists in your life, but also at us, even before we had even done anything.

OK, how is not disrespectful to make racist jokes in a thread SPECIFICALLY talking about how they’re offensive and not appreciated?
I came “guns blazing” about racism in my life. Not at anyone here. Then (White) people did in fact tell me to “calm down” and offered posts that were generally rather dismissive and skeptical of my complaints. Then other White people come in with their oh-so-clever jokes, which were mostly not playful, friendly ribbing. If they were, they would’ve stopped after I expressed my distaste for them for the second time. So hey, since we’re all being dicks, I figured I’m gonna join in the fun.
You’re trying to characterize these snide passive-aggressive posts as something far less offensive and maybe as a White person it looks that way to you, but from my perspective they are in fact disrespectful.
Yes I came across as angry. So what? This the Pit. Can’t I be angry if I get called a CHINK for fuck’s sake?
Everything I’ve said here I’ve already stated in one form in another in previous posts. If you still don’t get it, then you can heartily fuck off as well.

[China_Guy]

@featherlou

I think this is where the disconnect here is coming from; you think we are disrespecting you by making jokes here, and I think it’s just the opposite; we’re treating you like one of the guys, suitable for teasing like everyone else. But as you said earlier, you don’t want to be one of the guys. I don’t quite understand why you came here to complain about your problems with racism if we’re just a bunch of strangers that you have no connection with, but as you like it.

Sweet bejesus, listen to yourself? “I only call you a chink 'cause I like you.”

You’ve proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you don’t get it, yet still insist your point of view is correct. When it comes to racism, racist jokes or racist terms, you don’t get to decide what the definition is or what is considered offensive. Seriously, a white woman from Calgary trying to lecture an Asian American on what he should find offensive. You’d do everyone a favor if you stick to “jokes” in your circle of friends, where you think you know what is appropriate and what isn’t, and using a judicious dose of STFU when outside of your circle.

[alive]

@featherlou

I don’t quite understand why you came here to complain about your problems with racism if we’re just a bunch of strangers that you have no connection with, but as you like it.

Posting on the same message board is some connection, but hardly the kind of relationship that would allow you to casually call someone a racial slur, even as a “joke”… especially in a thread precisely about casual racism.

It is necessary for Asians who are confronted with racism to make it clear how bad it is, because for some reason people don’t seem to think it is an issue (largely due to a combination of the “model minority” and “positive stereotypes” ideas).

[Rubystreak]

@featherlou

I think this is where the disconnect here is coming from; you think we are disrespecting you by making jokes here, and I think it’s just the opposite; we’re treating you like one of the guys, suitable for teasing like everyone else.

You do realize this is the classic justification for bullying: “we were only kidding, can’t you take a joke? God, you are so thin-skinned, maybe that’s why people tease you so much. Get over yourself!” I agree with the OP that you’d better be best fucking friends with someone if you want to call them a racial slur as a joke, and if they tell you they don’t like it and you come back with some comment about their sense of humor being impaired, then you are being an asshole. Maybe you don’t realize it, but you are.

But as you said earlier, you don’t want to be one of the guys.

So in order to be “one of the guys” if you’re Korean, you have to laugh when somene calls you a chink? Fuck those guys then, why would you want to be one of them?

I don’t quite understand why you came here to complain about your problems with racism if we’re just a bunch of strangers that you have no connection with, but as you like it.

We are a bunch of strangers. This is an internet forum. We are not bosom friends unless we have an actual relationship beyond posting at the SDMB. You may not agree, but a lot of people would. In any case, this does not give you license to deride the OP for not laughing and going along with it when some asshole on the internet calls him a chink. Do you really think it should?

I think you’ve told about 10 people to fuck off now. You’re coming across as very angry, and not just at the racists in your life, but also at us, even before we had even done anything.

This is some sort of pre-emptive white guilt or something, if you felt like he was pointing the finger at you, though your posts make me wonder if he shouldn’t have. IMO you are displaying the classic passive-aggressive subconscious racism that the OP was describing, with the classic “can’t you take a joke?” response. I think he told as many people to fuck off as he needed to; the Pit is for angry ranting and the OP has gotten a lot of undeserved shit in this thread.

[Cat_Whisperer]

r4nd0mNumb3rs, you’re angry at racists and at other Dopers, I thought you had less reason to be angry at other Dopers, you disagreed, I re-stated my case, you still disagree, I’ve re-read the thread, and this is me dropping it. Of course I don’t know what your experiences have been; if you say what’s gone on in this thread is disrespectful (the “chink” joke obviously was over the line, and apologized for by the poster), I bow to your greater knowledge of your own condition.

For those of you who have reading comprehension problems (or reading all the posts before posting problems) and like to come in swinging after the fight is over, I AM APOLOGIZING TO r4nd0mNumb3rs HERE. I AM RETRACTING MY FORMER STATEMENTS IN LIGHT OF FURTHER INFORMATION.