I am so fucking sick of this casual racism

This thread is a real opportunity to live up to the premise of this board and fight some ignorance. I’d like to suggest a couple of realities that would greatly assist the conversation going forward. I’m putting this out there as a person of color who has lived in the US and the UK my whole life, in different states and regions, and has been fairly well educated. I’m not going to act as if my reality is the only reality - but I imagine from the circle of friends and associates I interact with, one that might be considered somewhat representative of a large number of people of color.

  1. I encounter racism - institutional and personal - on a fairly regular basis. If I choose to leave my house and interact with other human beings, I will encounter instances where I am made to feel inferior and/or where I am physically or mentally threatened.

  2. This racism is typically subtle. I’ve been called “nigger” maybe five or six times in my life. One time was by an obviously mentally ill person, but it was pretty unpleasant to hear “NIGGER!” yelled at the top of her lungs from across the street. Another time was in elementary school, by a kid who I’m not even sure knew what the word meant. Other times were in a parking lot in Banbury, Oxfordshire, by some NF skinhead types. That time in particular was pretty scary - I thought I was going to get beaten up. But most of the stuff I deal with is really subtle, and conflated with other issues as well. As a Black man I’m stereotyped as being prone to violence (people are visibly intimidated by me at times), being uneducated, likely to steal, to be a service worker, or just ignored. For example, I can go in the local market to shop - with casual clothes on, a baseball cap, and a basket in my hand, and I’ll be asked where certain things in the store are. My community is majority White, so I imagine people assume that a Black person in the store works there and isn’t a customer. I don’t know about you, but for me it’s pretty easy to figure out who works at the store - they wear uniforms!

  3. I have to expend energy figuring out if a) I’ve truly been treated out of malice; and b) what to do about it. When something like the above happens, I usually say, “I don’t work here, but I think it’s [wherever].” Sometimes I’m a little pissed and I’ll just say, “I don’t work here.” If the person is old I might give them a pass. If the person’s tone is haughty, I start thinking, “Damn, was that racist? Sure felt like it.” And then I have the internal dialogue… “it was…” “It probably wasn’t…” and so on. Sometimes I just go “fuck it, that shit was racist.” Sometimes I go, “fuck it, that person was probably just mistaken/dumb/half blind.” The point is I spend time thinking about it, when I could be thinking about more important, relevant stuff, like how to finish this damn dissertation.

  4. I’m often told by people who have never experienced what I experience - not on a regular basis, anyway - that I’m making a big deal or overstating the case. When I talk to other African Americans, and typically people of color generally, they can empathize and say, “Yeah, you got shit on by someone because of race, or they stereotyped you.” What’s more amazing about this is the fact that I’m the stereotypical “safe” Black person. I’ve been told I don’t have much of an accent - people often think I’m White over the phone (though I do code switch around friends). I tend to wear t-shirts or sweatshirts and khakis - in other words, I’m not dressed in baggy clothes like a teenager half my age. Currently my hair is cut fairly short (though it’s been bald, locked, cornrows, Afro, you name it). And this stuff still happens, in the supermarket or in fuckin’ Harvard Square with a Harvard sweatshirt on. I should point out that I don’t purposely dress to avoid scrutiny, but I do think about it on occasion.

  5. I’ve been told - usually in code - that my race has played a role in my successes and/or failures. Nobody ever says “you didn’t get this grant because you’re Black,” or “you were asked to join this committee because you’re Black” (actually, I have been told the latter. But typically it’s by people I know and I knew it anyway). But it can be figured out pretty simply.

  6. I’m human so I sometimes miss stuff either way. Sometimes it’s so obvious (like when a professor says that they would like to see more people of color on the faculty, but they need to be qualified, not just minority). Sometimes it’s vague, like when several friends and I who conduct research on race proposed courses to teach at my school, and they were all rejected, even though we are among the most published and accomplished students at the school, and the school has a lack of courses in the area - but a White student teaching on a topic that is well covered is accepted. Who knows what the motivations were behind that decision?

That’s just me and my situation. I know for friends I have who are less educated, who have less money, and live in worse neighborhoods, it is often worse. For instance, I’ve never really dealt with police discriminating me - because a lot of the police I encountered as a kid were Latino and from my neighborhood as a teen, and I had limited contact with police in the UK - usually I’d go to a bobby if I was lost and they were very friendly. However, I have been pulled over and been made to “assume the position” simply because I was a minority kid in a place where minority kids “allegedly” committed crimes. Didn’t matter that I was an honor student, clean cut, etc.

But even for the friends I have who have more education and more money they still get shit. I have a friend who has two Harvard degrees and is a consultant - makes a lot of money. He was harassed by a cop near campus, missed an important test - and when he complained to the cop about it, the cop had him held in jail. The cop pulled him over and asked him for proof that the car was his (a fancy BMW), and it escalated from there. The guy was traumatized and dropped out for a semester. On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of friends driving without licenses and just being told to make sure they have it on them next time, etc.

Now, I am certain that some folks that read this are going to find other explanations for these events I’ve shared, and perhaps they’re right. But I think that race, and how people perceive me racially, plays a role in all of these things. I think this is what r4nd0mNumb3rs and others are venting about (and the stuff he was talking about was pretty much unequivocally racist).

There tends to be this mindset among a lot of Whites that when you hear “race” or “racism” that it’s time to go on defense, to excuse or make light of situations that you personally have no knowledge of, to legitimize the motives of people you’ve never met, and so on. I think it’s because a lot of times people think and say, “Hey, I’ve said or done that before, but I’m not racist. Therefore the person who did or said that to you isn’t racist either… because that would make me racist!”

That’s why I don’t say people are racist, I say that they act in a racist manner, or exhibited racist behavior. And we all do it. I fail to see how you can live in this society and not subtly (or greatly) be affected by it. When I consult with groups about working and learning in diverse environments, people often attempt to place me in the role of “expert,” which I reject. I’ve just done some reading and research, but I still stereotype. I still make assumptions. I’m a work in progress and I try to take the approach that I’m here to learn. When you drop the defensive stuff a lot of good stuff can happen!

Oh, and props to Li’l Pluck for the explanation of why the model minority stereotype sucks. A further shitty issue about it is that it prevents poor minority people from working together. Hell, if you came to America, and you were warned to be scared of Black people, why would you question that? Especially when you are told that your people are so hardworking, nice, etc., compared to them. Eventually you learn that you’re getting the same shitty racist treatment, but you’ve always been suspicious of Blacks, and vice-versa.

I was very offended at what the guy said about Asian women. I didn’t like it because not only was it racist, it was sexist.

As far as their being “good” asian stereotypes, I don’t know about you, but I’d rather someone default to thinking I’m smart, or rich or a neutral impression than someone grabbing their purse because I’m coming down the street.

I’ve had folks assume many things about me based on how I look. I’m a skinny (anorexic) white (needs a tan) straight haired (needs a perm) freckled (should cover them up) dumb (woman) money hungry (wife) bitch (person with opinions). For whatever reason you receive judgments about yourself when they are inaccurate, they are hurtful

I’m sensing that the OP feels about folks dismissing his anger at this thread pretty similar to the way I feel when I’m upset about something or trying to enforce a rule that I’m being bitchy, or PMS’ing. That is what I identified his responses as.

Maybe I’m off base, out of my tree and completely out of my gourd, hell, maybe I am PMSing. I just wish we could find better ways of understanding and relating to each other as people instead of being blinded by stereotypes and unfounded hate. So, fuck me I suppose.

But I do hope that one day we can listen to what people say and hear what they mean without assuming the worst of it.

FTR, I’m not rich. :slight_smile: But I do accept donations. :slight_smile:

But don’t the North Koreans listen to the radio ?
I heard a long interview with one of ‘the glorious leader’s’ ex-bodyguards and he talked about radio broadcasts.

I suspect that West German television was a factor in the fall of East Germany

Thanks to everyone who’s shared their experience of racism in this thread. I especially benefited from Hippy Hollow’s post just now.

For some reason, I’ve gotten less of the “explaining it away” thing when I and others have pitted homophobic discrimination; however, I’ve certainly gotten the “you need to calm down” thing that people don’t seem to get in the pit for things that aren’t 1) completely trivial or 2) somehow related to oppression. I find that juxtaposition rather disturbing. I’ve gotten the “Well no wonder everyone discriminates against you folks, you’re so touchy” for things I’ve written while venting in the Pit. I’ve questioned this – “what, are we the only people not allowed to kvetch about things in the Pit? We should accept this with good grace all the time?” – and people usually tend to change the subject after that.

Another thing I notice is that there tends to be far less batting about what the person’s motives were when the recipient is apparently being discriminated against because they are white, or male for that matter.

I’m marginalized because of my sexual orientation and gender presentation, but I try to remain aware of my privilege as a white, able-bodied, reasonably well-off Canadian man. I realize that it is nowhere near my prerogative to fly into full-on “well maybe they didn’t mean it like that, you’re so oversensitive” mode when someone chooses to share their experience of racism with me. I realize that unless things change a great deal around here, I will never experience pervasive, systemic, “ambient” racism in this society, and so I’m not in a position to inform people of colour how they should react, what their tactics ought to be, and what they ought to feel when they are confronted by certain acts and attitudes.

Yep, exactly.

And thanks, BTW, for the props.

Q: What’s worse than finding a half-eaten worm in your apple?
A: The Holocaust!

My point being that one tragedy does not cancel out another one - the Holocaust certainly is worse than realizing you’ve just eaten half a worm, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’ve STILL EATEN HALF A WORM.

On a more serious note, have you read about what the American military did during the colonization of the Phippines? Or how the Filippinos were treated during the World Fair - put on display like freaks in a show? Or how the working conditions of the sugar plantation laborers were practically identical to that of slaves before the Civil War, where the laborers were beaten and degraded and unable to escape? Or the reality of the internment camps? As an Asian American studies scholar I read about these things and the mind boggles at how much the US government has gotten away with and how good they are obscuring such atrocities in plain sight.

I don’t want to get into a “who suffered most” contest, because I agree that other minorities have suffered just as much and more than Asian Americans. But part of the model minority myth includes the belief that Asians haven’t had their share of suffering. I think the perpetuation of this myth has largely to do with the fact that many of us (Asian Americans) have no direct link to that history - because of the immigration quotas, there were very few Asian women around until after WWII, and anti-miscengenation laws made it difficult for Asian men to marry outside their race. So very few of us can trace our ancestry back to that suffering, and as a result many of us buy into the “oh we worked hard and succeeded in the US where other minorities are still struggling” stereotype.

And HH’s post was wonderfully eloquent and I agree with everything he said.

Also, sometimes it takes years for you to realize what happened. Your mind will sometimes bring up ancient injustices–incidents that, at the time, you just shrugged your shoulders about. Sometimes I will be thinking about some unfairness of youth and it will occur to me that racism or another -ism may have been involved. You can miss stuff and then see it later, when you’ve had a chance to mature.

That’s not to say that racism is always the most reasonable explanation, but when you are a minority (regardless of color), it can never be ruled out. It’s a burden that members of the majority do not have to carry.

Along with the luxury of being able to make claims about our own experiences without being psychologically analyzed, condescended to, dismissed, lectured, and outright called a liar.

I think you got it - see the response to the next quote - but being prejudged, even though we all do it, isn’t necessarily a great thing, especially if it’s based simply on how you look. If I drive up in a Rolls Royce wearing an Armani suit and a Rolex watch, it makes sense for you to prejudge me as being rich (though, of course, it could be a borrowed car/suit/watch). If you assume I’m smart because I’m Asian, what if I’m not that bright, after all? What if you talk to me and approach me in a way that goes over my head, and I get all nervous and stressed out, and sound even dafter?

(That’s actually a phenomenon called stereotype threat, that Claude Steele has written about. Yes, Claude Steele is the brother of Shelby Steele, and they couldn’t be more politically different.)

I can’t speak for r4nd0mNumb3rs, but I think you’ve got it, exactly.

This is fantastic, and I agree 100 percent. I’d just add that I don’t think there is a hierarchy of oppression (I heard one prof refer to the idea of fighting over what was worse, internment, the Holocaust, or slavery, as the worst event in the “oppression Olympics”). Systemic and institutional discrimination, incarceration, murder, and enslavement is among the worst things that people can do to one another, period. Again, fighting over what was worse distracts oppressed people from forming allegiances with others who have similarly suffered. I’ve read Tanaka’s Strangers From A Different Shore and I was amazed about how little I’ve learned about discrimination and racism towards Asians in my schooling (I didn’t read this book until grad school).

matt_mcl, thanks, and I think your experience has sensitized you to “getting it.” You sound like an ally.

monstro, you’re right. When I was teaching and I saw how the Black boys catching wreck for random stuff, it did indeed take me back to situations when I was in a similar spot. It’s in the air, and then you’re thinking… “I shoulda said this, I shoulda done that.” Conversely, sometimes you’re like, “I wish I hadn’t said or done that.” But I’m not a particularly Angry Black Man, so I don’t usually have that feeling. You, Li’l Pluck?

Having shared all of this, I think I have to make it clear that I love being Black. I wouldn’t change one iota of my experience. The great things about being Black - having a strong and vibrant cultural heritage, feeling community among (some) other Black people, the flattening of hierarchy when Black folks get together - I can be in a group of highfalutin’ Black academics, and invariably, the lines get blurred and we are just “kickin’ it,” as compared to how I feel when I interact with highfalutin’ White folks (not to generalize, I have met some really cool highfalutin’ White folks)… that kind of stuff. Plus I dig my skin and hair, it’s rad. I know some people don’t have that feeling, and have had to go to dark places to get their heads right (or not). I feel lucky that I’m not extremely bright or dark and had to deal with grief about that.

I’ve heard hypnosis may also help recover some of those memories. For example, you might suddenly realize that the day your preschool directors took you all out into the forest to perform the Black Mass, it was more than simple coincidence that they chose a little white girl, rather than you, to slaughter the bunny with the ceremonial dagger.

Chiming in with everyone else to say I agree. Very nice post Hippy Hollow.

Fuck yeah. :slight_smile:

Seriously now. I’m white, my kids are South Korean adoptees. A few months ago, something shitty happened with my 16 year old son on the bus. A white kid was taunting him, telling him to speak in that awful racist stereotypical pidgin half-English. It did not come to blows but it came close.

He couldn’t even speak about it. I could see he was raging about something, and I proceeded with care but eventually he exploded and screamed SO loudly at me something he’s never said. " Look, you’re white and I’m yellow and you wouldn’t fucking understand so just drop it !! "

:eek: Okay. So I did. He just sat there crying. He was angry and wounded and there wasn’t fuck-all I could do and for all of my sensitivitiy it doesn’t matter because I am not Asian. Copy that, and it hurt because it is a painful truth of their lives and mine.

Eventually he did talk out some of his rage and upset. I’m sharing this NOT to say, " oooooh I understand what you mean! " but to say openly that I don’t understand it emotionally because I’m white and have been heavily punished for being raised a Jew but never for being white, so skin-color visually prompted racism is something I’ve little experience with.

I think you DID react appropriately in your OP, but IMHO what I think doesn’t matter as much as what other Asians who are posting in here think.

Cartooniverse

Christ Almighty you are one huge fucking dumbass. I don’t suppose that you have any evidence to support such an outrageously idiotic statement, do you? Anything at all outside the fevered meanderings of an obviously substandard mind?

How telling that you would retch out your racist crap in a thread decrying racism.

Finally, some replies from people who get it.
I think Hippy Hollow has described the issues that confront minorities more eloquently than I ever could have.

HazelNut, I definitely wasn’t trying to say that discrimination against Asians was any more justified because of history. If that were the case, I wouldn’t have started this thread. More along the lines of I sympathize with the struggles of other minorities because history can play more heavily in their circumstances and the fact that racism exists despite common knowledge of that history is truly disheartening.

I think when it comes to racism, a phenomena called “blaming the victim” plays a role. There’s a strong tendency for many people to fallaciously believe in a “just world”, therefore those that are in less favorable positions are thought less of because they probably “deserve it”. For example, people may believe that poor minorities are poor because they’re lazy and stupid, and that nothing needs to be changed except their poor attitude. Then I guess they use the Model Minority myth as an example for why that’s true, ignoring the fact that many (but not all) East Asian immigrants are of middle-class, educated backgrounds, a completely different situation from working-class Hispanic immigrants or working-class Blacks. That stereotype creates unnecessary rifts between Asians and other groups while undermining any struggles Asians may experience.
It’s easy and comfortable to think that in today’s world that things like race wouldn’t impede ones path to success or happiness but unfortunately, that is not always the case.
Thanks for the support people. And I don’t even know what the hell Vinyl Turnip’s talking about.

I don’t think you have to be white to feel helpless in a situation like this. I got picked on all the time at school (never about race, from what I recall) and there was never anything my parents could do to cheer me up. A kid is always going to feel like their parents don’t understand, even when they do. So don’t feel so guilty.

I think your input does matter. I think this race business is EVERYONE’s problem, one that everyone suffers from and perpetuates in some degree or other. I think all of us have to try to be a little bit more compassionate and see things from the other guy’s perspective. That includes not being careless with jokes and lines of questioning, and feeling sympathy when words wound someone. And it also includes not sweating the small stuff when it does happen, because we all say stupid, pig-ignorant things sometimes. Racist, sexist, homophobic, nationalist, or classist…we all have it in us to be mean and hateful. And it hurts all the same.

Before I get piled on by someone who does know what I’m talking about, I should probably say to monstro that my comment was not intended to call your own specific memories or perceptions into question; you’re obviously the most qualified person to evaluate whether incidents in your own life were influenced by race. But I do think there’s a risk sometimes in using today’s lens to look back on the microfilm of one’s own life, and the unreliability of memory is a part of that.

Nobody thinks they’re oversensitive about race, and yet most of us have probably run into people in our lives who did manage to find a racial motivation in every event (especially negative ones), even when it appears to stretch credibility. I doubt I’m the only white person who dreads this type of public exchange:

“Hey, I meant to ask… when you finish the last of the coffee in the breakroom, would you mind starting a fresh pot?”
“Oh, I get it… it’s because I’m black!”

(Exaggerated, yes, but not by terribly much.)

I’m so sorry, Cartooniverse, to hear what happened to your son. Poor baby. If he’s the hugging sort, please give him a hug for me.

Unfortunately, in his lifetime, he’ll have many more opportunities (even if the catalysts are much more subtle than in this instance) to process this kind of bullshit. And so, too, will you. :frowning:

This is a good point. On the first day of first grade, the teacher (a really old white lady) was there to greet us at the door. She’d read your name off the list, then tell you where to sit in the classroom. I, and the other two black kids were told to sit in the very back row of the class. Years later, I thought about it, and wondered what was going on with that. Then, I remembered their last names, and that all of our last names started with letters at the very end of the alphabet, and it made sense. I could easily see someone walking in, seeing all the little black kids clumped all together at one table at the back of the room, and flipping out though.

You mean, am I an Angry Black Man? HELL TO THE YEAH, BABY!

Here’s the thing, though. In most situations (say, a dinner party, the classroom, or, well, just about anywhere), on the suface, I exemplify the “good Negro” (henceforth, “GN”). By GN, I mean that my habitus is solidly middle class–Ivy League student, King’s English (even if my accent sometimes gets a little thick), hold a decent job, dress business-casual (generally, though never baggy pants and the like), believe in making smart life choices, would rather die than commit a crime and become intimately acquainted with the criminal justice system (besides, Mama would DEFINITELY kill me!), etc. Oh, and not advocating bloody rampage against random White folks.

Actually, it’s not just on the surface, because the GN really *is * who I am, but, yes, under the surface, there’s the other Li’l Pluck–Angry Black Man. There’s also Angry Jew, Angry Homosexual, Angry Atheist, and Angry Someone Who Gives a Damn About How This Country (hell, the world) Treats Anyone Who Isn’t White, Male, Christian, Heterosexual, and At Least Middle Class. Oh, and Angry Of Southern heritage. :wink:

To answer your broader question (which was in response to monstro’s post)–that is, if I’m understanding your question correctly: I never got shit in school because I was Black, but that’s because, even back then, I was the GN. In fact, more often than not, I was the teacher’s pet–without even sucking up. Y’see, the way my parents explained it to my brother and me was, “We go to work, and that’s our job; you go to school, and you do well, and that’s *your * job.” And that’s what I did. And I was respectful of the teachers, not only because I would’ve had HOLY HELL to pay at home if I weren’t, but also because being a nice guy is in my nature, and I think they appreciated it, as would anyone who has to deal with children, who can, just because they’re children, be rebellious, noisy, and all of the other things that children can be.

Having said that, even looking back now, I don’t think that anyone in my cohort was singled out for negative treatment because he/she was Black, even after I started going to multi-racial magnet schools in the sixth grade. I realize that it has happened–and continues to happen–but it hasn’t been my experience.

Of course, my experience as an adult in the larger world has been quite different. I won’t go into the bullshit traffic stops, just walking down the street, “the position’s already been filled,” “the apartment’s already been rented,” etc. experiences, 'cause you (and monstro, and, sadly, many others, already know about that kind of stuff), but yeah, with little exception, there’s a stark difference between my childhood and adulthood experiences as a Black person in America.

I’m glad that you highlighted the part of HazelNutCoffee’s post that you did, because it struck me, too. Not as wrong (because I think she’s right), but as not quite complete. Incomplete because she didn’t mention the human condition aspect (though I think you touched upon it). Being honest with myself, if I weren’t part of the majority, and the majority said to me, “Look, we like you folks, because you’re not like those other folks. Oh, and, by the way, don’t trust those other folks, 'cause they’ll shank, shoot, murder, rape, steal from, and be jealous of you at every opportunity because they’re lazy/stupid/have forests on their shoulders,” shit, there’s a part of me that might be tempted to eat it up, too.

I mean, honestly, though I’m (often, I hope, if not always) aware of, and sensitive to, the way that women in America are looked upon and treated, there are times when I realize (albeit subconsciously, if that makes sense) that I’m glad–no, not glad, but relieved–that I’m not a woman in this country. Or in the world, for that matter. For me, however, this doesn’t mean that I get to breathe a sigh of relief (after all, for all of the privilege that my being male confers, I’m still B-L-A-C-K); it means that I have to be very careful that I don’t add, either actively or passively, to the oppression of women.

I say all of that to say that I’d guess that this is pretty much the way that it works for Asians. And for East Asians (and I hope I’m using that term correctly), too, since I don’t believe they receive the kinds of daily slights based on their “race” that Blacks, Hispanics, and Indians do.

I’d love to discuss this kind of stuff with the aforementioned cohorts, but (apart from the one Asian-American classmate who “got” this stuff and who talked with me about it several years ago before he graduated), I (quite unfortunately) don’t know many Asians and East Asians who aren’t more than ships passing in the night. Besides, when some of the Asians and East Asians on campus encounter me, I am very often aware, via their body language and other actions, that many of them are scared shitless. Or, at the very least, wary of me.

And it’s not just on campus, either. It’s in the street, on the subway, on the light rail where I live in New Jersey. So, I guess I’m screwed for the time being in that regard.

I will, however, try to get my hands on the Tanaka book that you mentioned, Hippy Hollow, as it sounds like it might be both interesting and informative. (I’ve been meaning to read his stuff for while, actually.)

And though my post is already probably too long, I’d like to add that I appreciate that you shared your feelings re being Black. Despite all of the *tsuris * that I’ve received–and will most assuredly receive until my dying day–for it, I can honestly say that I’ve never, EVER regretted being Black. I’ve regretted that too many White folks can’t get their shit together in this regard, but my being Black? Hey, I’m totally blessed.

When I recall the dignity, decency, and lack of hatred against White folks that my grandparents and other Blacks of their generation (hell, my mother and Blacks of her generation) exhibited despite their expeience with god-awful Southern Jim Crow, I’m in awe. Complete. Awe. When I consider that I can be just about anywhere with other Black people, and I don’t have to worry about someone questioning my character or my intelligence–where I can just be me (all things being equal, of course, 'cause I still have to deal with homophobia, anti-Jewish sentiment, and anti-atheist sentiment from some quarters)–it’s very comforting. (Okay, even though some of my Black friends will rib me gently for being geechie.)

I totally dig being Black, and I LOVE Black people, and not for all the mammon in the world would I want to be anything else. Never. (Gotta say, though, that, thanks to that race mixing, I did get the “good” hair.) :wink:

So, yeah, man, I hope that answers your question. :slight_smile:

That was beautiful Lil’ Pluck.

I’m glad as a southern, white, atheist woman that in spite of the tribulations you face, you have the attitude that you do.

There are ups and downs to being everyone I suppose. And I suppose on most days, the ups outwieigh the downs.

Today, I didn’t hear too many sexist comments, which is fairly unusual, but it didn’t suck so much being a girl today. Having to sit at that table the other day with the guy talking about Asian women was just sucky, and there really wasn’t much that I could do about it. Every time I hear some young guy talking about “bitches” or how all women want is money and what not, it makes me wonder how far we’ve come. But today, wasn’t so bad and I have to say, your post gave me hope that maybe we aren’t where we want to be, but we may be getting closer.