I can actually contribute to this. Just last night, by coincidence, I was reading the last issue of Skeptic magazine, and it went into great detail about this supposed astronomical discrepancy.
It seems the original version of this UL can be traced to early in this century with a professor…Tollen, I think it was. I don’t have the article right in front of me. He was a professor at Harvard, though not an astronomer. He worked out the missing day by working backward from the present positions of the stars to arrive at the day of the week of a particular date in history when, he had decided, Joshua fought at Gibeon. It was a Wednesday.
Then he worked out that some astronomical event previous to that occured on such-and-such day of the week. Needless to say, this part of the argument was very nebulous and questionable. Working forward, he found that Joshua fought on a Tuesday. Got that? Tuesday AND Wednesday; Tuesday=Wednesday, so the sun had stood still for a day! the article debunks this whole thing far more thoroughly and competently than I could do, and I will refer you to it. The issue is still on the stands, or was last week here in Boston, but it was the last issue of 1999, so it may not be out much longer.
The NASA thing is obviously the newest incarnation of this now-urban-legend (though Tollen was serious at the time), with the business about the forty minutes added in for good measure. Of course, though Tollen was sincere, if misguided, about a missing day, whoever dusted this tale off clearly was pushing it rather cynically. There is no way I can think of, in principle, that would show an astronomical event like that described to a resolution of forty minutes at this late date (except all the skid marks all over earth as animals and people were flung off into space).
Whoever passed it on even gave you a rather large clue with the name “Harold Hill”. Please. A famous con man? He sells trombones to the kids in the band, and piccolos and picollos, and uniforms too, with a shiny gold braid on the side and a big red stripe running…
You’ve completely lost me on the Ark quotes. What are you asking? Are you asking for people to provide evidence that the Ark has not been seen? If that is what you want, you need to provide things like: Dr ABC, on Jan 10, 1985, lead an expidition to Mt. XYZ, where he claims to have found the Ark and has published photos thereof. Then, people can tell you that Dr. ABC is a known fraud and his photos were proven false by Drs. E, F & G.
As it is, I can’t tell what you are looking for. Please clarify.
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
Lucky,
No, I am not asking you to prove or disprove.
It is just some quotes from different sources through out history who claim to have seen the ark. All of the quotes or very old. I didnt expect anyone would really want to research them. I just have a book that uses them.
The first one is is from an early historian named Berosus author of HISTORY OF BABYLONIA, wrote in 275 BC. (old)
The second is Josephus also first century A.D.(still old)
The third is John Chrysostom A.D. 345-407.
The most up to date sighting that the author uses is May2, 1883. Mt. Ararat tremored…the Turkish government sent out a investigating team and they stumbled on the ark.‘The team found a gigantic structure of very dark wood , embedded in a glacier with one end protruding twenty to thiry feet.’
This book has nothing to do with my faith. Just something I have read. So I have not researched the above quotes.
What I’m saying is that I think you gave too much credence to the story as you related it. Others have posted why it’s an Urban Legend so I shan’t.
What I did was provide to you a link to a story about the ark and sighting, a story recently posited on this board. Would your information of the sighting be of the same caliber (feel free to use the variant spelling: calibre) as the missing day story above? If so, please post it.
dansir, you never did address my question. Why are you here if you don’t care about the evidence we present to you? You brought forth the story, and when we proved that the story was wrong, you said it didn’t matter then brought forth another story.
We have heard all of these stories before. Why don’t you go find a story that has a factual basis to it, then come back to us. Giving us some religious myth and saying that you’re just telling us what someone else has said is a cheap trick designed to let you off the hook, and you know it.
They may welcome this kind of self-supporting story-telling over at the LBMB, but I don’t.
Dansir, if you want to discuss something, fine. But it seems a complete waste of time to just post something and say, “well, I read it in a book and just thought I’d mention it”. What purpose does that serve? You know, I read in a book one time that huge, green centipedes once inhabited the Kalahari. I don’t want to talk about it or anything. I just thought I’d mention it. Isn’t that interesting?
NOT!
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
Slythe,
The fact that you all proved the op story is a lie is interesting to me. What I said is the story has nothing to do with my faith in God.
The only reason I posted the Noah ark stories is someone mentioned ark sightings. I do believe the post are true but again they do not have anything to do with my faith. I dont know how anyone would prove them true or false because they are rather old and where found in history books. I do like to learn but I do not like to be attacked just because I believe differently.
Dansir: I’m sorry you feel attacked. Frankly, I don’t think that feeling is justified. No one on this thread has attacked you or your faith. I think that most of us who’ve posted ‘against’ you (for lack of a better term) are simply feeling frustrated. If I may ask, what brought you to this forum in the first place? Most of the TM started out as fans of the Straight Dope and came here accordingly. As Cecil’s minions we are dedicated to seeking knowledge and irradicating ignorance. Most of us have a specific grudge against Urban Legends because they are so often used to spread ignorant assumptions and because they are so very, VERY difficult to wipe out. So, along you come with an account of an extremely well-known and thoroughly refuted Urban Legend. We debunk the story for you, and try to send you off, Cecil-like, to break the chain of ignorance among your friends and family. End of story? We wish. Back you come with a “Thanks for the explanation, but it still [i[might* be true.” We respond with more details about the untrue nature of the story. You respond with “Sure, but some parts of the story might be true…” This dance continues for several more rounds, and you’re still refusing to completely embrace the untrue nature of this story. “Maybe it’s true; maybe it’s partly true; maybe, even if it isn’t true, Mr. Hill had a reason for thinking it was true…” Well, maybe (as I tell my kids when they play the ‘maybe game’) monkeys will fly out of my ass. The fact is, as has been amply demonstrated on this thread, this story is untrue – completely untrue. If you continue to perpetuate this (completely and totally untrue) story, you are as much of a liar as is Mr. Hill. Even if you preface the story by saying, “This might be true.”
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Sorry if my vehemence makes you feel further attacked. I am only trying to make you understand the frustration you have caused for manny of us here. BTW, if you really don’t understand the way Urban Legends are started and spread, then I would be very happy to post a reading list for you so you can learn all about them. You might find the study entertaining – you would certainly find it educational.
Jess
Remember the Straight Dope credo: It’s all about wiping out ignorance, not coddling the ignorant.
Okay, I looked at the article in Skeptic last night again, and I got a couple of things wrong. The guy’s name was Totten, not Tollen, and he was at Yale, not Harvard. He taught (of all things) military science and in fact is the guy who invented the board game Stratego.
He also was not responsible for the entire missing day argument. Basically he figured, by taking some poetic descriptions of the position of the sun and moon very literally, that Joshua’s battle at Gibeon was on July 22, 1428 BC (or some such date, I don’t remember exactly). This information was taken by a fellow named Rimmer, who looked up what day of the week ancient eclipses are recorded to have occured on and worked forward to this date, arriving on a Tuesday. He then worked back from the present to arrive on a Wednesday. Conclusion: a really long day, due to the sun standing still!
The central problem, as you might expect, comes in lining up ancient calendrical practice with our own. A complete discussion is too long to go into, but needless to say, the calculation doesn’t hold up. Check the article for more info.
JESS,
When everyone started telling me it was a fable, they did not give me any reasons. They just gave me he said she said. For me that was not proof. Later in the thread if you notice, I asked specific questions.When I recieved the answers, I agreed that the op is a lie and apologized for posting and causing such frustration. However, at different times I do feel attacked when people tell me that I have no buisness here when clearly I am trying to learn. I dont know how more plain I can be. I said I now understand that Mr. Hill lied and I am sorry.
But I am still asked to leave the board or questioned why I am here. I consider that an attack. If I am wrong I am sorry.
I, for one, do not want you to leave the board. However, I can’t resist pointing out the following, which I hope you will take in the spirit of good-natured ribbing.
It is really funny to hear you say that you would not take the word of people on this board without any evidence, when you so eagerly accepted the story in question without the slightest bit of skepticism.
For your own well-being, you may want to contemplate that, but also know that it’s not an intention to slam you. My aim is more along the lines of “you have something green in your teeth”
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
And…
Perhaps I shouldn’t nit pick, but DrFidelius told you exactly why the story couldn’t possibly be true in his first post on this thread. That post was only the second posted on this entire thread, so your accusation that people were only giving you ‘he said, she said’ is false.
“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal
Please don’t try to enhance the truth of G-d’s word with all this goobly-goop. He and His word do not need to be defended by these out-right fantasies of Mr. Hill; they only serve to discredit, not uplift.
