I can't deal with transgender anymore

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
261

I had a near gaffe like that when I thought someone had brought their tween boy child to a staff meeting. (Wouldn’t be unheard of, considering two people brought their dogs.)

Then this person was selected for a peer nominated award and went by she/her pronouns and was apparently an adult employee.

How embarrassing it would have been to misgender her or ask whose kid she was.

I suspect, though I don’t know, that she is a trans woman who took puberty blockers, and that is a really good example of why it can be really helpful to know people’s pronouns up front, as well as a good reminder that a lot of people who take puberty blockers can look younger than they are. So don’t assume gender OR age!

I confess due to social anxiety it’s hard for me to introduce myself to new people and the idea of actually asking someone their pronouns and potentially offending them feels intolerable. So I usually just wait until I hear what pronouns their close co-workers are using for them. And pay attention to their email signatures and how they identify at meetings. I’m grateful that is normalized at my agency. We have I’m guessing a higher than average rate of out trans employees, so being up front with pronouns is just the done thing.

262

OK, thanks for the explanation.

263

You’ve never been asked about food allergies at a restaurant? That’s very surprising to me, as it happens pretty much every time I eat out, and often if calling in a take out order. Either way, it’s been normalized in large areas of the US so you should expect to hear it soon. When it happens, will it make you feel the same way as being asked your pronouns?

264

At the places I get food they only ask me if I want fries with that. But it would annoy me if every time I pulled up to the drive-thru I had to announce that I don’t have food allergies.

265

I have a little more complicated identity, so I will explain this as I understand it, rather than how I experience it, but I’m sure I understand it pretty well.

There is a meme, or a type of slogan: A trans man is a man. A trans woman is a woman.

This represents the most distilled version of what many trans people (probably a great majority of trans men and trans women) want from society. They don’t want people to look at them and say, “Oh, hey we should all go around and say our pronouns!” when they hadn’t done that before. Unlike a lot of minority groups, whose members may want to be seen, many trans people want to not be seen or treated as any different from anyone else of their gender. They don’t want, on an individual basis, to be recognized as different. So for those saying, ‘they’re the ones that are different, so they should just suck it up and give their pronouns,’ you are not just refusing to help, you are proposing that they should just do one of the things that pains them the most – be singled out as different from the rest of the men or women present.

That being said, I also don’t in any way get why anyone would try to enforce providing pronouns, unless, I suppose, no one was providing them. It’s actually a good thing for a small portion of a group to not provide them. That way anyone who wants to provide them, can, and anyone who is uncomfortable can decline, and no one gets singled out.

I am curious, though. For the cisgender posters saying that they are opposed to stating their pronouns, what would your reaction be at a conference, say, to something like, “Let’s collect a little data at the outset. If you are a guy, raise your hand. OK, put them down. Now if you are a woman, raise your hand. OK. And then, anyone who has not yet raised your hand, please raise your hand.”

266

My apologies to everyone who I inconvenienced by my carelessness.

267

The thing is, I never signed up to “help” anyone with their personal psychological issues. Their problems are not my problem. I would not intentionally misgender someone in an attempt to hurt them. But I have no interest in being an active “ally” for any movement. If I knew someone was arachnophobic I wouldn’t throw a spider on them, but I’m also not scouting out rooms to make sure they are spider-free when they enter them, either.

268

What do you imagine trans people and their friends are asking from you?

269

As has been been mentioned several times in this thread, expecting you to announce your pronouns when you introduce yourself. That is trying to draft me into their culture, and I’m not interested. It is fine that they have their own customs and social norms, but they are not mine.

270

Has anyone actually asked you to do that in real life? If so, what did you do?

ETA: I’m pretty gregarious and have a few trans/NB friends. I’ve never been asked for my pronouns. I’ve never seen it happen where this was asked of anybody.

271

Are you assuming that only trans people ever have any need to announce their pronouns?

I’m cis female. My board name isn’t gendered. The name I ordinarily go by is gendered, and it’s gendered female – but it’s from a minority culture and entirely unfamiliar to most people I meet or correspond with. People who are looking at me generally assume that I’m female (presumably due to body shape, my visible clothes are nearly always either male or a mix), but anybody who can’t see me usually has no way to tell.

And a lot of them default to male; which I don’t like. I don’t mind people defaulting to neutral pronouns, when they don’t know or aren’t sure which is right – I do that myself. But I mind them defaulting to male because it always feels to me like an assumption that the ‘norm’ is male.

But they’re not going to know unless I tell them, now are they?

Cis people have reason to announce pronouns too.

272

FWIW, I welcome the appending of pronouns to email signature lines and other forms of written correspondence. I wish it had been a thing 20 years ago. As a naval officer, particularly a junior officer, I was always somewhat on edge having to respond to an email from someone I hadn’t met before and whose name was (at least to me) ambiguous as to gender. Because of course like a good little Ensign, I was raised to formally address civilians as Mr./Ms. (assuming marital status unknown), but how was I supposed to do that when responding to someone whose gender I did not know?

So I personally put my pronouns in my sig line not simply for inclusiveness, but because I think it may be helpful to whomever I’m communicating with. Not that my first name is particularly common among women (although, every now and then, I will come across someone who uses my short name and is a woman), and I hardly expect such formal correspondence nowadays, but I want the people I am communicating with to be able to refer to me in the 3rd person (such as if they are referencing my email within their organization) as appropriate, and not feel awkward about it.

In short, I consider it good manners to list my pronouns, and would hold to that even if there was not a single transgender person on the planet. Even if it was a completely foreign concept.

273

I have a more general question stepping back from the whole debate.
If someone addresses you as the wrong gender do you find it insulting? If yes, why do you find it insulting?
I mean if someone mis-identifies me as an asshole, or a bigot, or a pedophile, etc. I would find it insulting because those are negative things to be identified as and having people think I am one of those things when I’m not would upset me.
Being a biological straight male who identifies as a biological straight male, why would I get upset if someone thought I was female, or gay, or trans unless I found those identities so deplorable that the thought of someone thinking I am one those make me angry?
There was a time when I was younger, less tolerant, more ignorant, when I might have gotten angry. But today if someone would mis-gender me I might be curious why, but to be insulted or angered? I really couldn’t care less.

274

It sure is easy as a cis-het white man to tell everyone else to not be offended, huh? I mean, if they’d just watch their tone and be more civil, I’m sure all their problems would just vanish overnight! No one can make you feel inferior but yourself, right?

275

Never happened to me in real life. I’m going from the post in this thread where someone attended an event and was asked to provide their name, pronouns, and something they enjoyed doing in 2024.

I’m not remotely gregarious, would not enjoy any aspect of that meeting, or any type of group team-building, ice-breaking exercise, and would not voluntarily join one if I wasn’t held hostage by risking my paycheck.

As far as I know, I don’t know any trans people at all. If I do, they haven’t told and I haven’t asked.

276

Jesus fucking Christ, then what the fuck are you complaining about!? A thing that never happened to you and never will happen to you? WTF?

277

I’m casually discussing/thinking about a concept on a message board in moments between doing other things, just like any other threads I participate in.

278

Yeah, I get that. I for one will never surrender to our Martian overlords. Death to the tripods!

279

I guess it goes back to if someone suffers from gender dysphoria it would be hurtful but it cannot be assumed just because one is trans they automatically must suffer from gender dysphoria. Not all trans people have that symptom (?) but correct me if I’m wrong.

280

I get that. And I mistyped “trans” instead of “non-binary” - or some other word.

Heck, until your post, I didn’t realize the thread’s title was inaccurate. Transgender persons (who presented as their transitioned to gender) would not need to specify their pronouns, right?

Which sorta illustrates my difficulty. I find myself having difficulty internalizing a new vocabulary to describe people I infrequently encounter, and who generally all fit into a single category for me - “non-cis”. Which also mildly confuses me because (correct me if I’m wrong) many/most gay people are cis.

I get that it would be frustrating to be one of the minority for whom the more common terms do not apply. And I sincerely am making an effort to adjust my language to make others comfortable. Like I said, I really don’t care about most other people, but given the choice, I’d prefer to not cause them distress. But with any activity that I do not exercise regularly, I inevitably make missteps.