I despise the INS with every fiber of my being.

I’m not very good at spelling out my feelings on a message board. There is no way for me to convey the anger, frustration, and impotence I feel in this situation. If I don’t get a chance to vent this, I feel like I will explode. Thanks ahead of time for putting up with a long post. Here’s my story.

My very serious and significant girlfriend (“Kim”) was recently denied citizenship, for reasons that can only be described as a gross mischaracterization of justice. Her ex-husband filed false charges against her of domestic violence during their break-up in order to give him an advantage in the divorce. An advantage that he made very good use of to gain custody of their son.

She went into her interviews with a letter from her divorce lawyer explaining what really happened. He even referred to actual court testimony that proved what the ex had done, and where the ex even admitted to the judge what his purpose was in having Kim arrested. During both interviews, the INS person told Kim they could see the charges were without merit, and that they understood the circumstances and there should be no problem. They told her that her supporting evidence and extenuating circumstances were compelling.

(Aside: Because of her complex circumstances, Kim had to be called for a second interview. One of the requirements is to be fingerprinted. Not only did she have to pay for two interviews ($280 each), she had to pay to get fingerprinted again! You would THINK that they could use the fingerprints from the previous interview 3 months prior. But NO, she was forced to pay an additional $55 to get re-fingerprinted for the second interview.)

However, the final review was nothing but a rubber-stamp rejection. Obviously no consideration of the evidence. In the letter of denial, the INS accused Kim of acts of “baseness and depravity” and of committing crimes of “moral turpitude.” Needless to say, she was (and is) distraught (to put it mildly). Her Green Card expires next summer; and she fears deportation and losing all contact with her son. It makes me wonder why they even have a personal interview if someone up the line who obviously has no knowledge of any details can just summarily reject an application.

It gets worse; much worse. Please bear with me.

Along with the rejection letter, there were instructions for an appeal. The INS told her to send a $110 fee, and that the appeal had to be filed within 30 days. The amount of $110 was stated specifically on two separate documents; 1) the boilerplate form, and 2) her case-specific rejection letter, dated May 2000. No problem, right?

WRONG. In June, they returned her appeals packet to her unread (“No record has been made of your correspondence”) because they claim she had not filed the correct fee of $170. They stated the fee had increased effective January 14, 2000, and by the way, the 30 days are up, too bad, so sad, no appeals for you. Oh, and they have the audacity to begin this particular correspondence with “To serve you more efficiently…”

And forget trying to get anyone at the INS to even talk to you. Kim’s INS office is the one in Tucson. Used to be, they had one day out of the week, if you called between 9-10 or 3-4, that you could actually leave a message that (supposedly) would enable you to get a return call sometime. Recently, I tried to call the Tucson office to talk to somebody about the appeals fee fiasco. I got a recording saying they now had an 800# contact.

Great! Right? No long-distance charge. WRONG! IT IS A TRICK AND A LIE! The 800# is nothing more than the national INS “helpline” where you punch numbers to get forms or such. No help for us at all. I finally punch numbers until I get a live person. My question is simple: I have a specific situation that I have to deal with the Tucson office directly. “Please can I have that number?”

(INS Demon Bitch) “I’m sorry sir, but the field offices no longer have customer numbers.”

(Patient Me) “What are you talking about? I need to ask a question. They used to have a number.”

(INS Demon Bitch) “We don’t have the numbers for the field offices, sir.”

(Frustrated Me) “I hear what you are saying, but I don’t believe for one moment that the national IRS can’t give me a direct number.”

(INS Demon Bitch) “I don’t know any number to give you, sir. We really don’t have that information available to us.”

(Irate Me) “That is BULLSHIT and you know it! You can’t tell me you have no idea how to get in touch with the field offices! You can’t tell me there are no phones there! I know if I walked in that office I would see phones on the desks! THEY ARE NOT DECORATIONS! They are there for a purpose, correct? What purpose could be more important than serving a customer in dire straights? It’s not that big a deal to talk to someone!!! How can this be the Immigration and Naturalization SERVICE with no service!?”

It did no good to argue, so I ended up hanging up with no answers.

(Aside: I WORK FOR THE FREAKIN’ FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!! In a typical DC regulatory agency! Guess what? I HAVE A PHONE! Everyone here has a phone. You want to call me, call me! My phone will ring and I will answer it! No “operator” telling you to get lost; no endless push button menus to nowhere! Our building even has an 800# where you can tell them my extension and get me direct at no cost to you! This goes for everyone here, including upper management!)

Ya want more? I gots more:

Once, Kim and I were at the Tucson office. I have never seen ruder and less helpful people than we encountered there. It went like this:

Kim to INS Counter Lady: “Hi, I have a question…”

“Do you have an appointment?”

“No, I just need some information about what I need to do…”

“If you don’t have an appointment, you need to take a number.”

“But all these people are waiting for interviews, I just need to ask…”

“Take a number and sit down.”

(Sits down and waits. We wait for about three hours.)

“Okay, here’s my number that you called. I need some information…”

“Do you have your interview packet ready?”

“I’m not here for an interview; I’m moving to Flagstaff, and I need to know…”

“We don’t answer questions here, you need to call this number.”

“I’ve called this number many times. No one ever answers. I only get a busy signal or a recording. I really need to talk to someone because I have questions about my circumstances…”

“You can talk to someone at your interview.”

“But I don’t have an interview scheduled yet, that’s one of the questions…”

“Good bye; Next!”

Another time, when she was there by herself, the security guards insulted her on the way out. I’m talking really nasty stuff. Making comments about “stupid foreigners” to each other while in her presence. On purpose to belittle her. She told me about it later in tears. (At least we got some satisfaction on this one. I sent a letter to the office supervisor informing of the behavior of the guards. I was in rare form on that one, and demanded a written apology…which Kim got.)
I even walked into my local support office (Silver Spring, MD) just for some general information. Nothing specific. The guy at the desk wouldn’t even try to answer my questions; he told me to go to Baltimore. (Funny, he didn’t know the phone number either…) A colleague here at work carpools with an INS person–one who works in the Washington HQ. She asked this lady where I could go for information (nothing specific, just who can I talk to). The INS lady said that her agency has no public liaison.

YOU CAN’T WALK INTO THE OFFICE AND ASK ANYBODY ANYTHING! She also told me it would be a waste of time to go to the Baltimore office because they wouldn’t even talk to me there either. She wasn’t being rude. In fact she was quite sympathetic. She was just speaking the truth.

“So how does a person with a question or situation get to speak with anybody about it?”

“You don’t.”

“Oh.”

The lawyer I spoke with will require a retainer of $2500. She sounds tenacious and willing to take on the INS (that is her specialty). She can even refer us to cheaper counsel if we want. Actually, I feel like we can prevail in a legal route because we are so obviously being wronged here. But who knows? What happens if Kim doesn’t get citizenship; and the INS pulls this shit when her Green Card expires next summer? If she can’t get her Green Card renewed she will have to be deported. And then she will probably never see her son again.

I feel this would be too much for Kim to handle. As it is, she is already distraught over losing custody of her son. She lives for her visitation time with him. She spends hours every day in prayer (with considerable prayer support from me, as well–even if it means praying together over the long-distance phone on a regular basis), asking God for two things: citizenship and to regain custody of her son.

Again, I’m not very good at spelling out my feelings on a message board. The loving concern that I feel for Kim causes me many tears (even as I type this) and many sleepless nights. All because the INS is full of faceless bureaucrats who don’t care one whit about an individual. They are the embodiment of Federal evil. Fuck them all to Hell.

Hey divemaster. I feel for you. I had a close friend, Pelin, who is turkish and had to deal with the INS. Nothing near as what you and Kim have gone through. I’m thankfull of that. But, at the same time it was very distressing. I’m going to hope that everything does work out. I really, really, wish you good luck with this.
You’re right the messagee board isn’t a good place for conveying real emotion. Anyway, best.

I can’t help you or offer any advice.

But i felt a need to offer my sympathy to you and Kim. I hope things will turn out for the best. If you can afford the lawyer, i say stick it to them! Best of Luck!

I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

divemaster,

I am so sorry to hear this - what a terrible story! And if this is how the INS operates, you can’t be alone in dealing with this nonsense. I’m not normally much of a make-a-fuss person myself, but were I in your shoes I would consider telling Kim’s story to a network or national-level newspaper. Sometimes the bright spotlight of public embarrassment seems to provide the push needed to get a satisfactory resolution for ordinary folks who are approaching the limits of what they can do on their own.

My best wishes to you and Kim for a speedy resolution of this awful problem. And I hope she can regain custody of her son from her lousy ex-husband, too!

Hey divemaster where do you live?

Did you say you are moving to Arizona? What nationality is Kim?

Whip em good! Beat those suckers down…god knows they deserve it.

Divemaster,

You have my sympathies. I am a lawyer, and I used to do some immigration law. I thought I had some good stories about the INS’s stolid, unflappable incompetence, but yours is better than any that I have. I have a few quick suggestions.

First, she needs to hire a good lawyer. The INS rules are far too complex for anyone but a lawyer who does that stuff regularly. My experience is that there are some appallingly incompetent immigration lawyers, so take your time to find one you are comfortable with. Immigration law is hard to do, and time-consuming, so it is expensive.

Second, write to your congresspeople. Kim should probably do it too, but, because she isn’t a citizen, she may not much of a response. I have had pretty good luck getting congresspeople to ask the INS to treat a client fairly, which sometimes makes a difference.

The bad decision against Kim might haunt her forever. Immigration law changes often, and, because it isn’t criminal law, there is no ex post facto protection. Further, the INS mostly deals with non-citizens. As a result, the pressure that has turned the IRS into a model of efficiency, fairness, and service does not provide much pressure on the INS to improve.

Good luck. You will need it.

/s/ Rankin Johnson IV

Good advice to write to congress persons. Add your senator persons to the list and then copy Janet Reno.

If Kim cannot remain in the USA, can she immigrate to Canada? Still close enough to visit her child on a semi-regular basis.

Best of luck to the two of you.

I’m with Fillet on this one, call a newspaper, news channel, something. Do what you can to get public outrage on your side. It’s the most powerful force on Earth.

I agree. Fight the man!!

Thank you for the kind words. To address a few questions: Kim is Korean. I met her when I was living in Arizona in 1998. She is still there, in school, while I have moved to the DC area (good job). We’re committed to the long distance thing until she graduates in the spring.

Of course, when she moves up here, all her paperwork will move to an INS office up here. That may be a good thing actually. Can’t be any worse.

I wrote a letter to the newspaper a couple of weeks ago. I guess they are not interested. Its tough to find an audience in the milieu of Washington (where “important” things happen), and this type of situation is old hat with the immigration problems in southern Arizona.

Maybe I can get a congressperson to listen. That is not a bad idea. I hadn’t thought about Canada at all. Maybe there’s something to that as well.

Honestly, though, I don’t think it will come to that because we are definately going to hire a lawyer, and we will win this thing. If not citizenship, then at least an extension on her Green Card. Unfortunatley, I think her chance of regaining custody of her son will be lost if she is deemed unsuitable for citizenship. I just hate that there is such a financial burden on us for something that should have been settled easily if only the INS made themselves accessible and committed to good service. (Of course, her scummy ex is ultimately to blame, but that is another thread for another time.)

As one who has been dealing with the INs in regards to my husband and step-children’s immigration for 2 years now (and we’re nowhere near done), I sympathize with you, Divemaster.

However, if you want to talk to a real person at INS, you do need to use the 800 numer. When they start telling to press one for this and two for that, press 9. Eventually, you get one of the National Help (HA!) Center people. They will not, as you said, direct you to a Service (HA!) Center, but tell them you need to talk to an immigration officer. Tehy will make you explain the situation first, and you will have to hold until hell freezes over, but in the end, you will get an actual human being. I have done this three or four times, and at least half the time the immigration officer was reasonably polite and helpful. Moreover, they will give you their name and office, so if you need to refer to what they told you in future dealings with the INS, you can name a specific person.

Of course, I’m sure you already know that what Mr. Johnson tells you today will not be what Mrs. Peacock requires tomorrow, and Mrs. Peacock doesn’t give a damn as to what Mr. Johnson told you, but there you go. It’s the best I can do.

Since Kim is eligible for citizenship, I take it she has been here for at least 7 years, huh? My husband was finally granted his visa two months ago, but it will be two years before they finish processing his paperwork and issue him a temporary green card. I’m sure you know the story. With the INS’s absolutely disgraceful customer service, it always pisses me off when I have to send them a several hundred dollar fee so they can spend 20 months processing–only processing, mind you-- an application. It’s disgraceful.

Our case was also quite complicated and loaded with delays. There’s still no telling if we’ll ever get my step-children here, due to an error on the part of the US Embassy which they admit, but refuse to correct.
Should you want to compare notes and share tips on dealing with these weasel felching bastards, feel free to e-mail me.

As to those who’ve suggested using the media, I agree that Divemaster should try. But remember that one foriegner’s problems trying to stay in the country don’t exactly amount to gripping TV. If it was an American citizen who was being persecuted, there might be more interest, but in my experience, no-one here much gives a rat’s ass about the foriegners.

Divemaster-
The immigrant vote is very important this fall (too bad she’s not Latino, heck you’d have congresspeople falling over themselves to help) Definatly attempt to contact your congressman, and hers. I’ve heard that John MCCain is actually pretty accessible. Make copies of the letters as well as any response you get.

Papers aren’t nearly as interested in Administrative agencies jerking people around, as they are interested in politicians jerking people around. Or vice versa helping people out. If after a couple of rounds of letters or calls or emails if, you don’t have resolution remind them that it is an election year.

That would be my solution. (plus a lawyer of course. PS A cheap lawyer is like a cheap pair of shoes. NOt worth it!)

Just remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease!

John Kyl is a senator from AZ and he is on the Judiciary sub-committee regarding immigration. Plus apparently he was elected in '94…which would leave him up for reelection in 2000…hmm…Thats where I would start!

divemaster -

IIRC, you actually live in Maryland, yes? If so, contact both Paul Sarbanes and Barbara Mikulski. They’re GREAT about helping with constituent problems, and their offices are really nice to people. Just something that may help.

And hell, if you want a beer and someone to talk to, gimme a holler.

The INS is one of the worst agencies for customer service, no doubt. But I work for the Govt, too, and I KNOW the “800” site does not have my phone #, or hardly any phone numbers. So you yelled at them for no reason. Now, maybe they SHOULD have the phone #s, but you were hasseling some GS5 parapro or a clerk, for no good reason. Did you really think that the person answering the phone would have the authority to change National policy?

Change national policy? No. But why wouldn’t the INS know the numbers of their field offices? (Note that this is a different question of why they wouldn’t tell me the number of a field office).

I deal with many different agencies. I need phone numbers all the time. If I want the number of the Sierra Vista Ranger District, I can get this easily enough from the Forest Service. If I want the number of the Carlsbad office of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, I can call just about any FWS number and they could find it. Same with the EPA, Corp of Engineers, (insert long list of Federal agencies here). Heck, I could probably find the number of IRS field offices if I tried.

Do you work for a secret agency? If not, I bet if I call your 800#, I can get the phone number for your particular agency office.

I wasn’t asking for the number of a particular person at the Tucson Office. I realize they don’t have a detailed listing. If the lady I talked to didn’t have the information in front of her, I know she could have gotten it easily enough. Maybe she would have had to look it up and call me back, or make a call herself to find it; but if she is an INS employee, she works in an INS office. Somewhere in that office is the number for Tucson, or easy means to find it.

However, they obviously have the policy that these numbers are to remain secret. Remember, they won’t even talk to you if you walk in the front door. If she would have told me this straight up, I would have been upset with the policy, but not with her. As it was, she didn’t have the graciousness to be honest with me. Maybe I shouldn’t have let my frustration out on her (well, no maybe about it). But it is tough to remain pleasant when someone is playing you for a chump.

Sorta, and nope.

But, in my office I have a phone book, besides my local#s, it lists only the Director of each of the Districts/areas, not the field Offices. So, even tho I am moderately placed, I could not give you the number of a non-local field office. Oh, sure, I could call the Director/Section Chief of the larger area, and get the number of the branch office, but I do not have access 1st hand. I worked briefly with one of the “800” phone rooms (prior to my current job). The workers had only local numbers, nothing outside the building (and just ext). The manager had a phone book like mine.

But you said you could get the IRS #s, right? Try it, from the 800#. I think they now have the # of the Taxpayer Advocate for each area, but they don’t have any local numbers outside of their Service center. So, you could get the regional TAO, who should be able to get you the local #s, but you’re not going to get any local #s from the IRS 800#. Or try calling a major bank, like BoA, and getting the branch #s.

But, anyway, the toll-free # should be able to help you, even if they don’t have the #s. Like Lucky said, you can be helped there. There was no use getting mad at the poor phone helper, she probably really did not have a number to give you, and even if she did, if it was INS policy for her to not give out that #, why would you expect her to jeopardize her job? Again, she does not set policy, you should be angry at those who do, not her.