I guess this is what people mean when they speak about the invisibility of lesbians, only cubed.
Is the word “rhubarb” offensive to you?
No, what if I start calling you a “fucking rhubarb” every time I see you?
What if others start calling you a “fucking rhubarb” whenever they see you?
How about if someone beat you, while calling you a “fucking rhubarb”?
What if others start beating you, while calling you a “fucking rhubarb”?
What if others start beating you, and others who share some similar trait to yourself, while calling them “fucking rhubarbs”?
What if others, who share a similar trait to yourself, are killed, while being called a “fucking rhubarb”?
Would you consider “rhubarb” a slur then?
Usage is what makes it a slur. No, the letters that spell out, or the phonemes that sound out the word “Ladyboy” are not “inherently” offensive, but it’s use in historical and societal contexts makes it so to the vast majority of the transsexual community.
There is not, nor really could there be, the same context for “cisgendered”, unless somehow transsexuals become the overwhelming majority and start oppressing us, while calling us “fucking cisgendered!”
Have a look at some of the LGBTQI-friendly, female/feminist-slanted media websites - I can think of at least one in Australia that IMHO comes pretty damn close to using the term “cisgendered” in that way when referring to men, and another one that, while not having the same level of vitriol, still IMHO sometimes appears to have a faintly “ugh, conventional gender folks” tone about it (depending on the story, to be fair to that outlet.)
So, are you saying that a ‘faintly “ugh, conventional gender folks” tone’ is similar in any way to being fired, denied housing, denied the right to use the bathroom, denied the right to live in peace without harassment and violence?
I am not going to research every LGBTQI website in order to find the one in Australia that (according to you) almost uses it as a slur. Do you feel that people who are persecuted complaining about the group of people who they feel are persecuting them have anything the same power as those who are actually doing the persecution?
If you were discriminated against (by employment, housing, or right to safety) by a bunch of turnips for being a “fucking rhubarb”, and you complain about the turnips persecuting you, is that really the same thing to you?
A reddit thread? You can’t be serious.
Yep, and that is exactly why the word “niggardly” is offensive :rolleyes:
Thank you for the info.
OMG! Your savage wit has once again slayed me! I was quivering at home hoping against hope you didn’t make a “can’t use a fork” insult, as I have been unable to develop an effective counter to that line of derogatory comments.
Tableware putdowns are my inherent weakness, I guess.
I’m sure your troupe of even-more-ignorant-than-you-are hypocritical assholes sat around looking up to your admirable use of the English language :rolleyes:
I see. So in your view, a member of a majority cannot be offended by anything that the minority calls them?
If that is the case, then just say that, and at least you will own your opinion and not rely on insipid “vegetable” slurs to try to make your point.
Wow, doubling down on the vegetable metaphors - good job!
Perhaps you can get together with that hypocritical asshole Miller and somehow create a strange amalgam of vegetable and tableware insults and take it on the road for people to admire?
It’s not black and white like you’re making it out to be, but I think there’s a much higher threshold when the word is being used by a minority.
Thing about it this way: suppose I’m trying to suss out whether or not “tranny” is offensive, and I come to the conclusion that it is not offensive, and start using it in everyday life, but actually I was wrong and tranny is, in fact, offensive. What’s the result of my mistake? I can think of two actually grave, real-world consequences which might result:
(1) A trans person hears me use the term, and hearing it contributes to their depression/alienation/etc.
(2) A bigot hears me use the term, and hearing it leads them to believe that their bigotry is more accepted than it actually is, which emboldens them to commit a hate crime.
On the other hand, suppose I’m trying to decide whether or not “cisgender” is offensive, and I come to the conclusion that it is not offensive, and start using it in everyday life. What’s the worst possible consequence?
Now sure, the likelihood that any one person using “tranny” in everyday conversation is going to actually directly lead to a hate crime is pretty small… but it’s still vastly higher than the likelihood that any one person using “cisgender” in everyday conversation will have any negative effect at all.
All of which is to say that I think that it’s reasonable to be far more cautious about picking what terms you use to describe minority groups than majority groups. (That said, it’s clearly possible for minority groups to have offensive terms for majority group… “honkey”, “whitey”, “cracker”, “breeder”…)
I was using the first words that have no inherent negativity to them that I thought of. And the word rhubarb is a bit funny, so that helped.
In my view, people can be offended by all sorts of things. I’ve seen people get offended at inanimate objects. So to say that someone “cannot” be offended would not be accurate.
That said, if a group is being oppressed and persecuted by another group, I am not going to get bent out of shape if the oppressing group finds offense in a word that was never used to persecute or oppress them, in fact, I’m gonna find it a bit silly.
I am curious as to what part of usage you are not understanding here? Do you not know that words are used along with actions to cause people harm? Do you not consider ethnic slurs to be offensive? Do you think I (as a white guy) should take the same offense over being called a white guy by a black man as he should take offense if I used some slurs that I am not comfortable typing?
When I hear about my fellow cisgendereds being oppressed and persecuted for being born feeling as though they were in the right body, while being derogatorily referred to by “fucking cisgender” , then I could get on-board with it being a slur, until then, it’s just a fairly neutral description.
Why not? Whether or not a word is offensive depends on whether people in general find it offensive. How would one find that out other than asking lots of people and getting their opinions? Or is there some particular reason why it’s well known that reddit is not a source of representative information about transgender issues?
I’m not saying “well, I needed the answer, so I went to reddit, and then I got the answer, end of story”. I’m saying “I needed the answer, so I went seeking evidence, and reddit provided some evidence.” The fact that the answer provided by reddit agrees closely with the answer provided by Una Persson just reinforces it.
Taking a step back for a second, by the way, what’s your point? Do you actually believe that ladyboy is nonoffensive? Is it your intention to casually use it in everday conversation to describe transgendered people? Or do you just feel that other people in this thread are being the language police and making claims that they don’t have the standing to make, and that upsets your sense of fair play?
If someone had never heard the word “niggardly”, it would be entirely reasonable for them to assume it came from the very familiar word “nigger”, and that it was therefore offensive. Then they could do some research and find out that they were wrong, but it’s far from an unreasonable assumption to start with. Also, your analogy fails, unless you’re claiming that “ladyboy” doesn’t actually come from the words “lady” and “boy” being stuck together, but actually has a totally different etymology… from the tagalog “Lahd-ib-oee” meaning “one who is hard to categorize” or something like that.
And don’t act like my claim is so ridiculous. Let’s say I told you there were three recently coined terms for lesbians:
-Sapphophiles
-Woohoolms (the acroynym WHLM, “women who love women”, pronounced)
-Fishmunchers
Are you saying you wouldn’t start with the assumption that “fishmunchers” is the most likely of the three to be offensive?
(And by the way, if I were, say, a kindergarten teacher, I would avoid using the word “niggardly”, even in contexts where it would be otherwise appropriate, because it’s so easily and so innocently mistaken for something that it is not…)
I believe that Manson’s point is that he (?) wants to be justified in being offended by the term “cisgendered”.
And this is where you could check various dictionaries and see that “tranny” is a disparaging term.
Here’s one:
trannies. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive
Yes, it’s reasonable to be far more cautious about picking what terms you use to describe minority groups. I agree. However that is not what I’m talking about.
As for “honky” and the other terms you listed, I highly doubt that a moderator warning would arise from me calling somebody a “cracker” or “redneck” or “monosexual” (which is a new one a read about)
I agree that the word rhubarb is a bit funny.
So, for you at least, it comes down to “You are a white, straight, male. Therefore, you can be called anything that anyone wants to call you, and even though you claim to be offended, your opinion doesn’t count because you’ve never been oppressed?”
My point is what makes “ladyboy” offensive that does not ALSO make “cisgendered” offensive?
Because people in this thread SAY it is? People say “cisgendered” is offensive too.
A (laugh) Reddit thread? I’m sure I can find one that says “cisgendered” is offensive if I really wanted too. And if not, I could just start one and then point to it.
Some sort of social scientist SAYS “ladyboy” is offensive? I’m sure I can find one who says “cisgendered” is too
I’m just looking for something other than what I previously posted - “You are a straight, white, male, so shut up about being offended by anything because you’ve never been oppressed”
I would think that I would come across as pretty petty and whiny if I were complaining about a historically oppressed minority using a neutral word to describe me.
Even if it were a “slur”. If I was called cracker, or honkey or what have you, I really don’t think that I could get that worked up about it.
I’m not worked up about it. This is just an interesting discussion to have while I’m waiting to leave work 
I’m more interested in the hypocritical dickheads like Miller, who won’t just own up to their idiotic opinions in their race to be some sort of social keyboard warrior in the eyes of anonymous people on a message board. I find it a bit sad, really.
I certainly know that “tranny” is offensive. My point is that the risks involved in judging what term to use for a minority group are far higher than in judging what term to use for a majority group, I was just using “tranny” as an example.
(And you in fact seem to agree with my point.)
Beats me. I certainly can imagine being actively offended by being called a “cracker”, but it would take a far more unusual context than the context necessary for “nigger” to be similarly offensive.
I have been following this thread since the start up and following it with interest. I play a bunch of clash of clans. This guy in my clan is gay. One day he called me cis. I didn’t know what it meant so I asked him that. Not completely understanding his definition I googled it. There I came to the conclusion that I don’t like it, because it sort of sounds like sissy to me. Was I upset? No. Was I offended? Nawh. I logged back in and told him I don’t like it and he drafted a lengthy “K”. Then we went on talking about other shit. I don’t know why it has taken this many pages to understand not to be an asshole. If someone calls me cis, I’ll smile and say I prefer not to be called that. Then it’s done. It’s not anywhere close to me calling someone a tranny or a faggot. Yet I still have the right to say “I don’t like that label”. If you think cisgender is equivalent to spear chucker, faggot, or one of the other obviously offensive slurs, you are far removed from common sense.
The dont be an asshole approach is the way to go. It’s just a word. If someone throws it in your face, it really really really doesn’t hurt.
(By the way, my friend just calls me ladyfucker now. A sense of humor helps too.)