That would also include Trump b/c he voted for himself and Pence and most of the GOP so would be the president ?
What is this supposed to mean? I think that person has every right to be angry. I think they have every right to think the voter or politician is cruel or bigoted or whatever, I think they have every right to say so, and I think the other side would be stupid to whine about their hurt feelings after.
What do you think?
You’re right. Aside from the direct mockery of someone’s pain, it’s no different than what those threads were doing in 2012. According to Sr. Weasel, I cried when Bush was elected (which I have no memory of, and seems absurd) but I’ve never felt so thoroughly invalidated as a person as I was with this election (not because of the vote for Trump, but the misogynistic attitudes surrounding it.) I honestly didn’t know it was possible to feel that much pain over something political. That speaks to my relative privilege in life more than anything else, and to the way both parties have systematically worked to sap empathy for the other side through lies, misleading half-truths, and identity politics. And we are all getting fucked over in the process.
So I will walk back my ‘sociopathic piece of shit’ judgment out of consideration of the fact that I may once have been almost as shitty. I will stand by my assertion that it’s a shitty thing to directly mock someone’s pain. And that I’ve never seen anything meaningful or helpful ever come out of the mouth of Omg. Maybe I’m just in the wrong threads.
Some with you, too, but don’t take it personally - it’s just a message board.
Talk about fucking sore losers. Trump will be the President of the United States. Nobody is saying liberals have to be happy with it but they do need to accept it and they need to loudly condemn such shit as this
And this
People, especially the young, are being worked into hysteria by the same sort of hate-filled garbage exemplified by some of the comments on this board since Trump’s victory. It’s shameful.
Consider it loudly condemned. It is not, under any circumstances, okay to advocate for the assassination of a democratically elected president, unless there has been a complete breakdown of democracy and civilians are being dragged into the street by government officials and shot. We are nowhere close.
I honestly don’t even understand why students are protesting in the streets. I associate protests with some sort of strategic plan to accomplish things, but they seem to increasingly be used for no apparent reason other than ‘I’m mad.’ Trump won the election, it is our duty as Americans to ensure the peaceful transition of power, end of story.
I sure as fuck hope he doesn’t fail. My love for this country and the ideals of democracy are stronger than my hatred for him. I’m not signing a goddamn petition to have him impeached unless I am presented with credible evidence that he is a criminal who would likely be convicted in a court of law. Stop wasting our time with this bullshit.
I think they have every right to be angry. I think they have every right to think the voter or politician is cruel or bigoted or whatever, I think they have every right to say so, and I think the other side would be stupid to whine about their hurt feelings after.
I think they have the ability to punch someone in the face, too. I think they have the ability to key their car. I think they have the ability to try and hurt that person as much as they feel they themselves are hurting.
I think they have the ability (and the right) to walk away.
I think they have the ability (and the right) to gather a collection of like-minded individuals and work to enact policy and/or elect officials.
Obviously, some of those things are illegal and to most people morally offensive. But they are options, and if one is willing to endure the consequences, they could certainly do those things.
Lots of options; pick one (or more).
Hold on, Batman. They were talking about what would happen if they took out the DT. I’m not sure which is worse… DT or Pence. I know who nominates them. Try to keep up.
And, oh hell yeah, they do make birth control pills. And rubbers and all kinds of stuff. She already has to be on them, a special super expensive one to keep her hormones exactly where they need to be so her weird insides don’t churn out precancerous goo.
Her THREE gynos, yeah, she has a team, are some board of medicine that gives recommendations to the state of Oregon. It looks like March our insurance goes in the crapper if the plan on gutting the ACA goes through as he says he is going to do. They are stockpiling samples of this weird 300 dollar a month pill pack things in the event we do lose coverage. We might be good for a year or so after.
You try to keep a woman on the perfect cocktail of hormones off of a stud like me. See how well that goes for you bro 
Whoop dee fucking do… A couple of incidents in a country of 300 million. Did you see the guy driving past the polling site with a Hillary doll hanging from a noose? Yeah, who gives a shit.
This is the Motherfucking Pit. Fuck being gracious toward the monsters who elected this fucking ape. It’s an obscenity and I hope that everyone who made it happen suffers for it.
This isn’t equivalent to Romney being elected, because Romney is a sane, principled and decent human being. Trump is ass cancer.
I wanted a vasectomy but they don’t give those to 32 year old dudes with no kids.
…you are missing Bo’s point.
These people aren’t imagining their lives are shit. Their lives are shit. They might not have lives as bad as other people. But without a real basis for comparison, why would that matter?
In NZ I followed along (as much as I could stomach) the elections on our National Radio on Checkpoint hosted by John Campbell. Campbell has always been an advocacy-journalist: he is respectful, he is hard hitting, and he always lends his voice to those without power and holds to account those that have it.
And it was interesting to hear how he covered the elections. In between running updates on totals the afternoon was punctuated with alternating interviews with Clinton supporters and Trump supporters. And there really wasn’t that much difference. The Trump supporters weren’t foaming at the mouth. They were worried about the economy, worried about crime, worried about jobs.
They had a choice between someone who kept confidential emails on their private server to someone who was going to smash the system and make America Great again.
Ultimately this election was decided over sound bytes. When I first heard about Clinton and her emails I took the time to google what was up, and finding out actually was going on was really quite difficult. But this article summed it up:
Its a comprehensive, extensive, well documented essay that lays out exactly why what Clinton did wasn’t a very big deal. It was also a thirteen minute read. I read it, nodded my head and then went back to doing my thing.
I was shocked yesterday when I read my facebook feed to read what a NZ 17 year old person had to say in defence of Trump:
“But i don’t like the things she’s done in the past. Her illegal use of a personal email server, accepting millions of dollars from foreign governments. Obviously trump has done so much shit in his past too.”
This person is a pretty cool person. I don’t know them that well: but they don’t strike me as either not intelligent or not engaged. But this person’s impression of Clinton was that she illegally used a personal email server and accepted millions from foreign governments. To get the truth you need to dig deep. But apart from twonks on messageboards like us, who is going to dig deep?
Before yesterday I still didn’t think the email thing was that big a deal. But this morning I realised that this was how Trump won the election. It wasn’t the email thing specifically. It was conceptualising Clinton’s entire campaign into one specific catch phrase. “Clinton illegally used a personal email server.” It could well have been “Don’t you think she looks tired.” I kept hearing the same thing over and over again from interviewers from Trump supporters. “Yeah, Trump has done some bad things. But Clinton has an illegal personal email server.” Over and over. And actually understanding what the email server thing was actually took effort: and even though I consider myself quite smart it was a heck of a lot of information to take in. The Clinton campaign never reconceptualized this. They allowed Trumps narrative to stand.
And in the end, from the admittedly anecdotal stories I have heard, was enough to turn the tide. Trump didn’t need everyone to believe the email narrative. He only needed a few. And those few that did aren’t necessarily bad people. They most probably aren’t privileged people. And they made a choice: a bad choice IMHO, but I’m not going to condemn them for it because right now there are more important things to worry about.
“That’s not the way the world really works anymore. We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” -Karl Rove.
The Trump campaign won because they controlled the message. They created the narrative. They left everyone behind. They didn’t need an overwhelming victory. And they didn’t get an overwhelming victory. They needed enough people to swing their way so that the convoluted antiquated ridiculous voting system the United States has at their core could work in their favour. They didn’t rely on the polls, spend as much as the Clinton Campaign, or do many of the “traditional campaign things.” Trump decided he wanted to be president. SO HE JUST WENT OUT AND DID IT. He controlled the narrative and controlled the message. We mock him for how he used twitter. But twitter is “how the world works now”. In easily digestible 140 character sound bytes.
My predictions for the next four years can be summed up in one word:
Ugly.
The protests started yesterday. I don’t actually think they will stop. The next four years will have rolling protests, all the time, all over the country.
“Welcome to the new reality” America.
These protests are going to hasten the resolve of many of those who voted for Trump. Their TV screens will be filled daily with images of black people smashing things, stopping traffic, with cable TV anchors breathlessly giving us extended commentary and presenting talking heads from both sides who will stare at a computer monitor and then describe to the viewers verbatim what they see.
“Welcome to the new reality” world.
Both sides will be emboldened. Both will double down. What is that going to lead too? I don’t fucking know. But it scares the fuck out of me. The stories have already started popping up on my twitter feed and it is scary and upsetting and worrying.
The important thing to do right now is to stop the fucking blame game. Karl Rove summed it up. We are going to spend the next four years “navel gazing”, trying to figure out where we went wrong, who was to blame, how to fix it, and Trump will ignore that and continue to define the way the world will work from now on. Stop trying to understand what happened. It just happened. Nothing was going to stop this juggernaut. The republicans couldn’t stop it, Clinton couldn’t stop it, Bernie wouldn’t have been able to stop it, because everyone was playing by the old rules but those rules no longer apply. Agile has beaten waterfall.
America needs strong leadership now. When Obama gets out of office, he needs to play a part. Many Americans think of the Obama presidency as a “lame duck” presidency: but to many of the rest of the world he was the best President you have ever had who worked as best as he could do what he could in a system that is just fucked up. He is an inspiration to us. He represented everything that was great about America. And that vision of America has been shattered by what your voters and your system did when it allowed Trump to become president. You need Obama at the forefront to remind the rest of the world what America can actually be great.
And you need to start playing the game as it is played now. And be prepared because as technology changes, the rules of the game are going to shift. There isn’t a Democrat that I can think of that knows how to play this game. To beat Donald Trump you are going to need a Jon Stewart. And even Stewart would struggle against this command of the message that Trump has at the moment. But Stewart at least understands the game and can match Trump blow for blow. Either Stewart or Lisa Simpson. (Because in cartoon reality Lisa inherited the presidency after Trump: yes, THE SIMPSONS ALREADY DID IT)
But it needs to start now. The protests fit Trumps narrative and as right as the protesters are to protest (IMHO) it plays perfectly into Trumps hands. To fight it you need to re-write the narrative. So white people: get the fuck down to the protests and make your voices heard. Not just to show solidarity: but to fight the narrative that the Trump administration is going to create once they take office. It is no longer about convincing everyone. Its about convincing enough people to make change happen. Politics is now an agile process. Its gonna move rapidly and you need to understand how the narrative is going to be shaped and be prepared with a counter-narrative.
And someone start the #JonStewartforpresident hashtag. A couple of years ago the thoughts of this would have been an absolute joke. But we’ve just watched Trump demolish the Republican candidates and beat out Clinton and we live in a new world now. I can’t actually think of someone else who is a voice of rationality in the United States with the mana of Stewart. And he isn’t afraid to say “fuck.” But it would be interesting to hear some other thoughts on who else could fit the bill.
And that has been Banquet Bear’s thoughts on the elections. And I think I’m out now. I’m off to San Junipero. For the next four years. I hear its sunny over there. And the music is simply fantastic.
I can condemn it with ease. Not only is it wrong in a general sense and shouldn’t be done, ever, but no one can ever cry fowl when it’s done to them if they’ve advocated doing so to others.
Further, I always think the high road should be taken, even when I woefully fail at doing so. Duh. It shouldn’t even need to be said.
Thanks for your thoughts, Banquet Bear.
Fucking excellent post, Banquet Bear.
The great thing about a Jon Stewart candidacy is that he’s already got a built in nickname for Mr. Trump that would constantly hold him up as a source of ridicule and which would infuriate Mr. Trump… I mean, which would infuriate Fuckface von Clownstick.
And funny angry beats angry angry every time.
This actually reminds me of Jon Stewart thanking the comedy gods that Trump was running for President.
Bet he’s eating those words right now.
So be nice to them, or else they may not let you play with the toys they took,right?
Look, when a Doper here says they supported Trump, what am I supposed to think they think of gay people? Or the soon to be uninsured on the ACA? Why do they deserve respect if they think gay people should be converted and all those sick people should just die?
What do you call such people? And what do you tell them when they start whining to you that they were called bigots and their feelings were hurt and that’s why they voted for Trump?
Oh, but sure, their feelings are way more important than actual people dying. What the fuck was I thinking?
I don’t think I am, I’m simply getting to the heart of it. Sure, their lives are screwed up, but my sympathy fades when they consistently act in ways that are not likely to improve their lot, culminating in President-Elect Trump, though it is not only his election, but that of a Republican Senate and House.
I’d have to ask if they are so completely disconnected from the concept of cause-and-effect that this seemed like a good idea to them. Congressional Republicans spent much of the last eight years in theatrical efforts to repeal the ACA, but had they ever proposed an alternative? Why would any reasonable adult assume they’ll come up with one now?
If these lives of these voters were affected negatively by the economic downturn, including the subprime housing crisis, can they seriously not see the link between this and a lack of banking regulation? I get that there’s the perception that Hillary Clinton was particularly close to the banking industry, but Trump and the Republicans talk about reducing regulation even further.
If a third political party had emerged or was emerging in the rust belt, then sure, I could see some actual effort to change politics to better reflect the needs of the people in that area. To run back to Republicans, though… it resembles an addict falling back to self-destructive behaviour.
Okay… and what about this challenges the notion that Trump supporters are not in touch with reality? If anything, you seem to be presenting evidence in support of the idea that these voters were living in fantasy, and the information that could have clarified the issue for them was not hidden from them or denied to them. They just didn’t care enough to look for it.
I’ll happily share my sympathy and empathy with people who are trying to improve their lot through methods with a reasonable chance of success. I’ll even entertain the notion that Trump might not be as bad as feared and actually help them (though I’m not sure how he can or if he can). But if they choose to remain low-information voters, well… things might work out for them or they may not, but if they keep voting Republican, they’re deliberately biasing the game against themselves, and I suspect part of that is also due to the fantasy that if they vote for the party that clearly favours the rich, then one day they might be rich, too.
If things get worse in the next two years and control of Congress is not returned to Democrats, then what limited sympathy I now have will simply shrink to zero.
…they will say EXACTLY as they have been saying, and what they are saying now. Have you been listening?
“What people do in the privacy of their own homes is their own business, and I don’t think a Trump Presidency is going to change that.”
“I’ve been paying healthcare insurance all my life. And now I’m paying more. Yes, I understand that there are people out there who are going to loose their healthcare. But I’m going to loose my farm. I can’t pay my bills now. Clinton won’t change a thing. Trump probably can’t either, but what do I have to loose?”
They’ve been saying this before the elections and they are saying it now. Real life isn’t Great Debates. You aren’t going to magic up a cite, convince them they are wrong, and have them change their vote.
The first one may not be a good example, because that statement is so straight out divorced from reality that it’s kind of laughable.
The second is just a nicer way of saying, I can’t afford to care if you die, I need to keep what I have. I understand it, but surely you can see it’s not very compelling for the people being left to die.